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Post by Stanley75 on Jul 25, 2019 8:39:23 GMT
Appreciate the reply Tarbs... BUT The alternative of sending our scouts out into the market to find free transfers that will either have plenty of other offers, or will be an unknown quantity is far more risky. We wouldn't just be scouring UK/Europe for FREE transfers, would we. As apparently we should now have a bit of a kitty available from our recent sales - as Corbs and Herts say: you can't honestly tell me that there is absolutely NOBODY in europe worth under 1m who's good enough to play for us, Surely thats when we need our 'extensive scouting network' to kick in to find those 2 bob gems out there and turn them into cash cows ? Hopefully your response to that won't be "We can't spend any of that money due to FFP restrictions."  |
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Post by West Acton on Jul 25, 2019 8:40:48 GMT
I know Tarbs but whatever his attachment to club he’s not done an awful lot since his mate departed. He’s shit scout in my view no loss Bit harsh Westy. He and Olly are responsible for our biggest transfer fee received in a while (Freeman). It's possible that the club decline many of the players he puts forward.
I think our transfer strategy is all over the place. Club lacks leadership.
credit where it’s due for Freeman but what else has he brought to the table??? If club kybosh his suggestions can only assume it’s because he’s presenting pile of poo Would not trust a freelance scout if can be avoided |
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Post by Hitman34 on Jul 25, 2019 8:41:53 GMT
thought he was pretty good last season.
personally would be in my starting 11.
how much are we looking at getting for him?
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Post by Tarbie on Jul 25, 2019 8:42:08 GMT
Appreciate the reply Tarbs... BUT The alternative of sending our scouts out into the market to find free transfers that will either have plenty of other offers, or will be an unknown quantity is far more risky. We wouldn't just be scouring UK/Europe for FREE transfers, would we. As apparently we should now have a bit of a kitty available from our recent sales - as Corbs and Herts say: you can't honestly tell me that there is absolutely NOBODY in europe worth under 1m who's good enough to play for us, Surely thats when we need our 'extensive scouting network' to kick in to find those 2 bob gems out there and turn them into cash cows ? Hopefully your response to that won't be "We can't spend any of that money due to FFP restrictions." But we started the window not just with zero funds Stan, we needed to find around 5m quid. It's only now, with 9 days to go before the season starts that we look like we might have a little bit of money in the kitty. And even that probably is reliant on a couple more departures. |
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Post by Hitman34 on Jul 25, 2019 8:44:53 GMT
Appreciate the reply Tarbs... BUT The alternative of sending our scouts out into the market to find free transfers that will either have plenty of other offers, or will be an unknown quantity is far more risky. We wouldn't just be scouring UK/Europe for FREE transfers, would we. As apparently we should now have a bit of a kitty available from our recent sales - as Corbs and Herts say: you can't honestly tell me that there is absolutely NOBODY in europe worth under 1m who's good enough to play for us, Surely thats when we need our 'extensive scouting network' to kick in to find those 2 bob gems out there and turn them into cash cows ? Hopefully your response to that won't be "We can't spend any of that money due to FFP restrictions." Stan, according to the journo that broke the story on the striker signing, the club are still short by 500k in meeting ffp requirments. therefore, i take it that there is no kitty until luongo and bfg are sold. |
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Post by Stanley75 on Jul 25, 2019 8:47:21 GMT
But we started the window not just with zero funds Stan, we need to find around 5m quid. It's only now, with 9 days to go before the season starts that we look like we might have a little bit of money in the kitty. And even that probably is reliant on a couple more departures. Stan, according to the journo that broke the story on the striker signing, the club are still short by 500k in meeting ffp requirments. therefore, i take it that there is no kitty until luongo and bfg are sold. The painful reality check of Farking Financial Fair Play  |
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Post by Corbray on Jul 25, 2019 8:49:56 GMT
Not saying it's ideal by any stretch Stan. But it's where we are. You have to look back at our transfer dealings over the last few seasons though. What Les has been able to do is bring in some good youngsters, and players/staff discarded by Spurs. That's about it. Last summer we saw how bad things got when the manager didn't have any transfer ideas of his own. The network at the club just didn't come up with anything other than a few out of contract players and expensive loans. We need to take it on the chin that our DoF is never going to pipeline anywhere near enough first team players for us to be competitive. We were reasonably effective in the transfer market when Ollie first arrived and was working closely with Penrice, but we had a lot more money to work with than what we have now. I don't think it's the worst policy in the world (given the circumstances) for the manager to leverage his prior relationships to build a squad. Warnock did exactly the same when he arrived. The club was in a state and he turned to guys he trusted to try and rebuild. The alternative of sending our scouts out into the market to find free transfers that will either have plenty of other offers, or will be an unknown quantity is far more risky. but we certainly have SOME money avaliable especially after the freeman sale which we expected to happen anyway. les said multiple times last season that we have an extensive scouting network across europe yet all of our signings barring 1 or 2 have been warburton's. the club knew that freeman was off so should have had signings lined up from foreign clubs, maybe even a replacement. instead we're going after a 30 year old has been with a bad injury record and no resale value. it screams that les hasn't got a clue to me, he's just a glorified personal assistant when it comes to the transfer market. it worries me because where is our money gunna come from next season, or the season after that? young players often take a season or 2 to establish themselves and develop. |
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Post by hubble on Jul 25, 2019 8:51:25 GMT
Les has vetoed Rhodes apparently... |
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Post by Hitman34 on Jul 25, 2019 8:54:24 GMT
Not saying it's ideal by any stretch Stan. But it's where we are. You have to look back at our transfer dealings over the last few seasons though. What Les has been able to do is bring in some good youngsters, and players/staff discarded by Spurs. That's about it. Last summer we saw how bad things got when the manager didn't have any transfer ideas of his own. The network at the club just didn't come up with anything other than a few out of contract players and expensive loans. We need to take it on the chin that our DoF is never going to pipeline anywhere near enough first team players for us to be competitive. We were reasonably effective in the transfer market when Ollie first arrived and was working closely with Penrice, but we had a lot more money to work with than what we have now. I don't think it's the worst policy in the world (given the circumstances) for the manager to leverage his prior relationships to build a squad. Warnock did exactly the same when he arrived. The club was in a state and he turned to guys he trusted to try and rebuild. The alternative of sending our scouts out into the market to find free transfers that will either have plenty of other offers, or will be an unknown quantity is far more risky. but we certainly have SOME money avaliable especially after the freeman sale which we expected to happen anyway. les said multiple times last season that we have an extensive scouting network across europe yet all of our signings barring 1 or 2 have been warburton's. the club knew that freeman was off so should have had signings lined up from foreign clubs, maybe even a replacement. instead we're going after a 30 year old has been with a bad injury record and no resale value. it screams that les hasn't got a clue to me, he's just a glorified personal assistant when it comes to the transfer market. it worries me because where is our money gunna come from next season, or the season after that? young players often take a season or 2 to establish themselves and develop. Les talks shit mate, should not waste your time listening to him. he has wheels attached to the goalposts as he moves them so often. As for raising money next season, most likey we will get profit on eze, bos and lumley, then we can flood the team with more loans and scottish signings. #rinseandrepeat |
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Post by Tarbie on Jul 25, 2019 9:04:22 GMT
Les has vetoed Rhodes apparently... This is what I heard a week or so back. We were offered Rhodes at a very reasonable weekly contribution (similar to what Cameron is going to be earning) and no loan fee. Warburton was keen but Les vetoed it. Makes you wonder what's going on with Rhodes. Why are Sheff Weds so desperate to get him out of the dressing room that they are prepared to pay half his salary? Why are no bigger clubs in for him? And what does Les know that we don't? |
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Post by Brian Wilson on Jul 25, 2019 9:09:02 GMT
Bit harsh Westy. He and Olly are responsible for our biggest transfer fee received in a while (Freeman). It's possible that the club decline many of the players he puts forward.
I think our transfer strategy is all over the place. Club lacks leadership.
credit where it’s due for Freeman but what else has he brought to the table??? If club kybosh his suggestions can only assume it’s because he’s presenting pile of poo Would not trust a freelance scout if can be avoided I'd rather the scouting approach than bring in a manager who signs a load of players he has worked with before. It may have worked with Warnock but its proper short term thinking. If Warburton follows the route of the vast majority of our managers and gets sacked then we will be left with all his players.
Club should have a recruiting philosophy that the right manager can slot into. Players are then ready...no rebuild and bringing in your own old players. It's the only way we can survive under current restrictions. Smart scouting and young players with possible sell on value.
We should keep the BFG. He can play from the back...dunno why some are saying he can't now. How many times did he bring the ball out of defence last year?
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Post by Hitman34 on Jul 25, 2019 9:13:53 GMT
credit where it’s due for Freeman but what else has he brought to the table??? If club kybosh his suggestions can only assume it’s because he’s presenting pile of poo Would not trust a freelance scout if can be avoided I'd rather the scouting approach than bring in a manager who signs a load of players he has worked with before. It may have worked with Warnock but its proper short term thinking. If Warburton follows the route of the vast majority of our managers and gets sacked then we will be left with all his players.
Club should have a recruiting philosophy that the right manager can slot into. Players are then ready...no rebuild and bringing in your own old players. It's the only way we can survive under current restrictions. Smart scouting and young players with possible sell on value.
We should keep the BFG. He can play from the back...dunno why some are saying he can't now. How many times did he bring the ball out of defence last year?
That is exactly what Aof les has been saying for the past 3 years, yet that seems to have changed as well. |
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Post by hal9thou on Jul 25, 2019 9:17:01 GMT
No form at all this level and his highlights are nothing special. It's a speculative, low budget punt. Let's hope it pays off. Brighton paid 3m quid for him a year ago mate. As such we've got to assume he's a step up from Smith who went for less than 200k. As Westy said, you and a few others are clearly gonna complain whatever we do this window. I just look the form in the book mate. Facts can upset people. The big fella wasn't good enough for MW, so I expect to see him replaced by someone with better stats. I'm waiting patiently. |
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Post by Brian Wilson on Jul 25, 2019 9:19:09 GMT
I'd rather the scouting approach than bring in a manager who signs a load of players he has worked with before. It may have worked with Warnock but its proper short term thinking. If Warburton follows the route of the vast majority of our managers and gets sacked then we will be left with all his players.
Club should have a recruiting philosophy that the right manager can slot into. Players are then ready...no rebuild and bringing in your own old players. It's the only way we can survive under current restrictions. Smart scouting and young players with possible sell on value.
We should keep the BFG. He can play from the back...dunno why some are saying he can't now. How many times did he bring the ball out of defence last year?
That is exactly what Aof les has been saying for the past 3 years, yet that seems to have changed as well. Les seems to have lost whatever power he had within the club. He should just leave at this point as his position is pointless. The "director" part would suggest he has overall say on things. Don't think that's true anymore. |
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Post by Tarbie on Jul 25, 2019 9:23:42 GMT
credit where it’s due for Freeman but what else has he brought to the table??? If club kybosh his suggestions can only assume it’s because he’s presenting pile of poo Would not trust a freelance scout if can be avoided I'd rather the scouting approach than bring in a manager who signs a load of players he has worked with before. It may have worked with Warnock but its proper short term thinking. If Warburton follows the route of the vast majority of our managers and gets sacked then we will be left with all his players.
Club should have a recruiting philosophy that the right manager can slot into. Players are then ready...no rebuild and bringing in your own old players. It's the only way we can survive under current restrictions. Smart scouting and young players with possible sell on value.
We should keep the BFG. He can play from the back...dunno why some are saying he can't now. How many times did he bring the ball out of defence last year?
I don't disagree with what you're saying Brian. It's not reality though, is it? It's all well and good to envisage a well structured club with an effective DoF, and excellent communication the whole way down the chain. A proper plan every window, and an ethos/style of play that everyone at the club adheres to. But we simply aren't that. We are a badly run club. That isn't just a TF thing either. We were a badly run club under Flavio & Bernie, and under Chris Wright before them. The reality is we went into this window with a bang average squad, and more than half of those heading to exit door, no transfer funds, a huge deficit to cover our FFP obligations, a new manager and a DoF/Scouting network that is a long way from capable enough to do everything that was required to build a squad for the coming season. My take on this window is Warburton has done what he's had to in order to give us a fighting chance this season. In my experience, in times of crisis (which I think we were close to), effective leaders roll their sleeves up and get the job done, by hook or by crook. This is what I feel Warburton is in the process of doing this window! |
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Post by Hitman34 on Jul 25, 2019 9:25:20 GMT
That is exactly what Aof les has been saying for the past 3 years, yet that seems to have changed as well. Les seems to have lost whatever power he had within the club. He should just leave at this point as his position is pointless. The "director" part would suggest he has overall say on things. Don't think that's true anymore. on one of the recent interviews, in his own words, "i advise" he is an advisor of football. |
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Post by Hitman34 on Jul 25, 2019 9:39:10 GMT
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Post by Shania on Jul 25, 2019 9:44:53 GMT
Imo, we were so poor last season that It`s actually needed to shift nearly the whole team, and like it or not - Warburton clearly intends to do so..The backside of it, is the fact that we may very well lose the first five matches or so before the team have gelled properly.
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Post by Tarbie on Jul 25, 2019 10:04:15 GMT
He'd be a useful addition. Surely Wigan and Boro will offer him more than we can though? |
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Post by Corbray on Jul 25, 2019 10:08:07 GMT
He'd be a useful addition. Surely Wigan and Boro will offer him more than we can though? good player him, i think he's a RB too. i imagine wigan would probably offer the same sort of wages that we would but he'd certainly be 1st choice here whereas he'd have competition at middlesbrough |
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Post by croydoncaptainjack on Jul 25, 2019 10:11:57 GMT
He'd be a useful addition. Surely Wigan and Boro will offer him more than we can though? Boro is more attractive but not sure about Wigan. Also, maybe he would prefer London although anythings better than Hull eh! |
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Post by Tarbie on Jul 25, 2019 10:12:47 GMT
Brighton paid 3m quid for him a year ago mate. As such we've got to assume he's a step up from Smith who went for less than 200k. As Westy said, you and a few others are clearly gonna complain whatever we do this window. I just look the form in the book mate. Facts can upset people. The big fella wasn't good enough for MW, so I expect to see him replaced by someone with better stats. I'm waiting patiently. Matt Smith had a very good ratio in terms of goal per minutes on the pitch. But you have to also look at the context of those contributions. Often he was brought on in the 2nd half when we were chasing a game, and our tactics were simply to knock it long to him. His goals per minutes ratio was not anywhere near as good in games he's started. Unless we are looking to play long ball this season (which we aren't), your argument is flawed. And as I've also stated many times, Smith did not want to play back-up any further. So unless he was going to be first choice (which he wasn't), Smith was always likely to leave this window. And with regards to stats for the Mlakar, he averaged a goal for every 2 games started last season for Maribor. Beyond that he is a complete unknown. He's also only 20 and still learning his trade. The fact Brighton saw enough in him to spend 3m quid on him as a teenager makes me think he will be an improvement from Smith. Apart from anything else, he is clearly far more rounded as a player and much more mobile. You can see that from the YouTube videos of him. |
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Post by Brian Wilson on Jul 25, 2019 10:13:45 GMT
I'd rather the scouting approach than bring in a manager who signs a load of players he has worked with before. It may have worked with Warnock but its proper short term thinking. If Warburton follows the route of the vast majority of our managers and gets sacked then we will be left with all his players.
Club should have a recruiting philosophy that the right manager can slot into. Players are then ready...no rebuild and bringing in your own old players. It's the only way we can survive under current restrictions. Smart scouting and young players with possible sell on value.
We should keep the BFG. He can play from the back...dunno why some are saying he can't now. How many times did he bring the ball out of defence last year?
I don't disagree with what you're saying Brian. It's not reality though, is it? It's all well and good to envisage a well structured club with an effective DoF, and excellent communication the whole way down the chain. A proper plan every window, and an ethos/style of play that everyone at the club adheres to. But we simply aren't that. We are a badly run club. That isn't just a TF thing either. We were a badly run club under Flavio & Bernie, and under Chris Wright before them. The reality is we went into this window with a bang average squad, and more than half of those heading to exit door, no transfer funds, a huge deficit to cover our FFP obligations, a new manager and a DoF/Scouting network that is a long way from capable enough to do everything that was required to build a squad for the coming season. My take on this window is Warburton has done what he's had to in order to give us a fighting chance this season. In my experience, in times of crisis (which I think we were close to), effective leaders roll their sleeves up and get the job done, by hook or by crook. This is what I feel Warburton is in the process of doing this window! It's just digging a bigger hole though in the long run. Where does it end? Whats the plan? |
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Post by Tarbie on Jul 25, 2019 10:15:59 GMT
I don't disagree with what you're saying Brian. It's not reality though, is it? It's all well and good to envisage a well structured club with an effective DoF, and excellent communication the whole way down the chain. A proper plan every window, and an ethos/style of play that everyone at the club adheres to. But we simply aren't that. We are a badly run club. That isn't just a TF thing either. We were a badly run club under Flavio & Bernie, and under Chris Wright before them. The reality is we went into this window with a bang average squad, and more than half of those heading to exit door, no transfer funds, a huge deficit to cover our FFP obligations, a new manager and a DoF/Scouting network that is a long way from capable enough to do everything that was required to build a squad for the coming season. My take on this window is Warburton has done what he's had to in order to give us a fighting chance this season. In my experience, in times of crisis (which I think we were close to), effective leaders roll their sleeves up and get the job done, by hook or by crook. This is what I feel Warburton is in the process of doing this window! It's just digging a bigger hole though. Where does it end? Whats the plan? Really mate, I don't think there is much of a long term plan, other than reduce expenditure to meet our FFP requirements. I think we do what we have to from 1 season to the next, and manage things 1 crisis at a time. Where credit is due is what we've done with the youth system. Without that work from Les and Ramsey we'd be right up shit creek by now! |
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Post by Brian Wilson on Jul 25, 2019 10:24:00 GMT
It's just digging a bigger hole though. Where does it end? Whats the plan? Really mate, I don't think there is much of a long term plan, other than reduce expenditure to meet our FFP requirements. I think we do what we have to from 1 season to the next, and manage things 1 crisis at a time. Where credit is due is what we've done with the youth system. Without that work from Les and Ramsey we'd be right up shit creek by now! Yeah, mentioned it a few times now but lack of leadership and short term thinking are gonna hurt us more as time goes on imo:
Yeah, youth has improved massively under Ramsey, Hall and Les. Wasn't so long ago we had conference and lower clubs sending back our players.
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Post by Tarbie on Jul 25, 2019 10:34:37 GMT
Really mate, I don't think there is much of a long term plan, other than reduce expenditure to meet our FFP requirements. I think we do what we have to from 1 season to the next, and manage things 1 crisis at a time. Where credit is due is what we've done with the youth system. Without that work from Les and Ramsey we'd be right up shit creek by now! Yeah, mentioned it a few times now but lack of leadership and short term thinking are gonna hurt us more as time goes on imo:
Yeah, youth has improved massively under Ramsey, Hall and Les. Wasn't so long ago we had conference and lower clubs sending back our players.
Again, don't disagree. Until about a year back I also had fairly grand ideas of what Les must have been doing behind the scenes and how the club must be improving. But I've learned a few things recently that make me realise it isn't true, and in a lot of areas we are still a shambles. We've done very well from a financial perspective to sort things out after our brush with FFP. And as I said above, the youth policy has come on leaps and bounds. But operationally I think we are still very poor. I have no expectation for this ever to significantly improve under the current regime. What is also quite worrying is I've heard from a few people within the professional game that this also the general perception of the club. We are always going to be limited as a club if the perception of players, managers etc. is that we are badly run. I think a lot of fans have no inclination that this might be the case and expect a lot more than what is realistic. To be honest, I'm fairly happy with how things are coming along at the moment. It could be a lot worse, and might have been if a different manager had been selected. |
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Post by Stanley75 on Jul 25, 2019 11:41:44 GMT
To be honest, I'm fairly happy with how things are coming along at the moment. Tarbs, doesn't this contradict your first three paras? |
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Post by Tarbie on Jul 25, 2019 11:49:11 GMT
To be honest, I'm fairly happy with how things are coming along at the moment. Tarbs, doesn't this contradict your first three paras? Not at all mate. Short of the current regime leaving in favour of people who actually understand how to properly run a football club, things are about as good as I feel we could have expected. To rebuild the squad effectively with as little to work with as Warburton has had is no small achievement. Of course we won't know for a few weeks yet if the squad really has been rebuilt effectively, but I'm quietly optimistic that with a couple of attacking options added this is a mid-table side at least! |
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Post by Shania on Jul 25, 2019 11:52:55 GMT
Alan Judge to stay at Ipswich, I presume. He is apparently featuring in their team photo this morning..I have to check it myself first..
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Post by Tarbie on Jul 25, 2019 12:08:43 GMT
Alan Judge to stay at Ipswich, I presume. He is apparently featuring in their team photo this morning..I have to check it myself first.. Just looked on Twitter. Trained with the Ipswich squad today, and is pictured smiling nicely in the team photo. Not sure this changes anything though. Ipswich clearly are continuing like he will be there next season until a point they've received an offer they are happy with. Whether we are prepared/able to offer something they will say yes to is debatable. Seems a decent professional, so I doubt he's going to throw his toys out the pram and force a move! |
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The alternative of sending our scouts out into the market to find free transfers that will either have plenty of other offers, or will be an unknown quantity is far more risky.
you can't honestly tell me that there is absolutely NOBODY in europe worth under 1m who's good enough to play for us,
Surely thats when we need our 'extensive scouting network' to kick in to find those 2 bob gems out there and turn them into cash cows ?
