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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 15:51:32 GMT
Could leistner step in to replace him or would we be looking at a replacement signing? Obviously leistner would make things a whole lot easier if hall was let go. The rumour is that Toni was sent out on loan to save his wages so it is more likely to be Masterson taking his place if Hall does go. There's probably not much difference in hall and leistners wage so all depends what the club can afford if it does decide to let hall go. Let's say £600-700k for leistner for the season - possibly good value for the one year as well as providing a bit of squad continuity rather than having to look for a replacement for both he and hall at the same time. Throw in Masterson still being very inexperienced it would leave us having to put a decent chunk of money into whoever we bring in as we'd need someone with a bit of experience to go with he and barbet. |
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Post by hal9thou on Feb 19, 2020 16:00:56 GMT
Could leistner step in to replace him or would we be looking at a replacement signing? Obviously leistner would make things a whole lot easier if hall was let go. The rumour is that Toni was sent out on loan to save his wages so it is more likely to be Masterson taking his place if Hall does go.
Totally different type of player.
For me Toni is too often a little bit of a liability.
What pisses me off that none of our CBs have been able to command the back line. Get rid of Les, bring in Lee Dixon on dofs salary, and get him to do one thing. Drill the fuck out of that back line so the can call it in their sleep. He's our boy, exchange rate is about one LD to 50 Les's.
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Post by 1qprdk on Feb 19, 2020 16:34:14 GMT
The rumour is that Toni was sent out on loan to save his wages so it is more likely to be Masterson taking his place if Hall does go.
Totally different type of player.
For me Toni is too often a little bit of a liability.
What pisses me off that none of our CBs have been able to command the back line. Get rid of Les, bring in Lee Dixon on dofs salary, and get him to do one thing. Drill the fuck out of that back line so the can call it in their sleep. He's our boy, exchange rate is about one LD to 50 Les's.
#evilles |
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Post by Bill on Feb 19, 2020 18:23:45 GMT
It's true. Only have to see the amount of rich successful celebrities who take their own lives because of depression. Money means nothing if you're fighting a battle in your head. Really deep subject. Caroline Flack |
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Post by hal9thou on Feb 20, 2020 12:37:30 GMT
I'd ditch any DoF for a kosher defence coach. We haven't had one of those for a long, long time. Last great defence performance vs good opposition was at Wembley. Awesome stuff. But a long time ago.
Tbf fair though the quality of that back line was completely different class vs this shower. All the more reason to bring someone in on the staff who vaguely knows what they're doing. Pay em the dof's salary and send him to help in the shop.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2020 12:41:41 GMT
The rumour is that Toni was sent out on loan to save his wages so it is more likely to be Masterson taking his place if Hall does go.
Totally different type of player.
For me Toni is too often a little bit of a liability.
What pisses me off that none of our CBs have been able to command the back line. Get rid of Les, bring in Lee Dixon on dofs salary, and get him to do one thing. Drill the fuck out of that back line so the can call it in their sleep. He's our boy, exchange rate is about one LD to 50 Les's.
Dixon? Ex Arsenal fullback? I suppose he was part of the famous back four. |
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Post by hal9thou on Feb 20, 2020 12:54:09 GMT
Totally different type of player.
For me Toni is too often a little bit of a liability.
What pisses me off that none of our CBs have been able to command the back line. Get rid of Les, bring in Lee Dixon on dofs salary, and get him to do one thing. Drill the fuck out of that back line so the can call it in their sleep. He's our boy, exchange rate is about one LD to 50 Les's.
Dixon? Ex Arsenal fullback? I suppose he was part of the famous back four. Also the most articulate. Heard him talk about how that back line got themselves sorted, the drills, the calls, attack vs defense. That was how they did it, in training day after day. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2020 12:58:49 GMT
Dixon? Ex Arsenal fullback? I suppose he was part of the famous back four. Also the most articulate. Heard him talk about how that back line got themselves sorted, the drills, the calls, attack vs defense. That was how they did it, in training day after day. Has he ever coached though? If anything Tony Adams would be the better choice from that backline as he seems to have experience (under our 'Arry, at Portsmouth, funnily enough) |
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Post by Stanley75 on Feb 20, 2020 16:23:35 GMT
Also the most articulate. Heard him talk about how that back line got themselves sorted, the drills, the calls, attack vs defense. That was how they did it, in training day after day. Has he ever coached though? If anything Tony Adams would be the better choice from that backline as he seems to have experience (under our 'Arry, at Portsmouth, funnily enough) Dixon, Adams, Keown, Winterburn. Yes Dixon is articulate, don't know if he's ever coached or done his badges. Adams is articulate too. Is he still battling his demons? I like the thinking though Hal. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2020 16:50:15 GMT
Has he ever coached though? If anything Tony Adams would be the better choice from that backline as he seems to have experience (under our 'Arry, at Portsmouth, funnily enough) Dixon, Adams, Keown, Winterburn. Yes Dixon is articulate, don't know if he's ever coached or done his badges. Adams is articulate too. Is he still battling his demons? I like the thinking though Hal. Adams left that all behind in the 90's I think. Credits Wenger with helping him turn his life around. |
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Post by hubble on Feb 20, 2020 17:03:54 GMT
Blimey, even Dixon of Dock Green could teach our defence a thing or two about stopping attackers.
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Post by West Acton on Feb 20, 2020 17:46:18 GMT
For me defensive side of game has evolved since that lot nearly 30years ago
Don’t disagree with having bigger defensive influence at club but hopefully would be someone more current
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Post by alanwycombe on Feb 20, 2020 18:00:34 GMT
For me defensive side of game has evolved since that lot nearly 30years ago Has it though if you only look at English players? Rio is the only footballer in recent times, certainly not Terry. Would agree about fullbacks but Pep has tried to make a continental out of Stones and failed. Maguire looks uncomfortable when required to do more than defend. I think we still have a long way to go to get to Pique and Sergio Ramos. |
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Post by hal9thou on Feb 20, 2020 18:21:33 GMT
For me defensive side of game has evolved since that lot nearly 30years ago
Less than you'd think, they dropped into two banks of four as required and now everyone is doing it again. The invincibles went 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1. Full backs are back in fashion, there was an interesting piece on the prem website recently about it. The arsenal FBs did get forward but they got covered. WBs only really work if you've got great athletes who can attack and defend which is incredibly rare.
The basics re defending dont change and that's been our problem.
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Post by West Acton on Feb 20, 2020 18:34:40 GMT
Agree 100% about doing basics right Hal I think we could make immediate significant gains if we simply done basics
Why I say the game has changed using arsenal back four as an example is that there defensive game was built largely on being exceptionally good and playing offside trap and it worked superbly for them. With pace of modern day players, movement off ball and ability of players to pick passes don’t think any sides would even consider playing that style
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Post by alanwycombe on Feb 20, 2020 19:00:13 GMT
OK, we're getting off Grant Hall but I would say the biggest and most significant difference since I started watching in '63 is fitness and athleticism. Whether it is 2-3-5,4-4-2,4-2-4,4-3-3 etc...I could put old guys and modern players in various positions. For example, the old half back line was a centre half and two wing halves. One wing half was a hard man and one more of a footballer (Duncan Edwards was one of the first but even I'm not that old) like Alan Mullery. So effectively two CBs and a defensive midfielder - not that different. Fitness wise they wouldn't live in today's company.
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Post by hal9thou on Feb 21, 2020 14:16:30 GMT
Why I say the game has changed using arsenal back four as an example is that there defensive game was built largely on being exceptionally good and playing offside trap and it worked superbly for them. With pace of modern day players, movement off ball and ability of players to pick passes don’t think any sides would even consider playing that style
They'd probably get even more decisions these days with VAR.
That side had one or two decent off the ball players themselves, Bergkamp? Henri? They did it in 04, less than 15 years ago. By then Cole & Toure had moved into the back four for the majority of games. Still solid though.
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Post by davieqpr on Feb 21, 2020 16:43:08 GMT
OK, we're getting off Grant Hall but I would say the biggest and most significant difference since I started watching in '63 is fitness and athleticism. Whether it is 2-3-5,4-4-2,4-2-4,4-3-3 etc...I could put old guys and modern players in various positions. For example, the old half back line was a centre half and two wing halves. One wing half was a hard man and one more of a footballer (Duncan Edwards was one of the first but even I'm not that old) like Alan Mullery. So effectively two CBs and a defensive midfielder - not that different. Fitness wise they wouldn't live in today's company. Don't forget that heavy leather ball with a lace though. A lot of modern footballers with their running shoes would break the foot trying to kick it when it was wet. Also the state of the pitches required a different type of fitness and style. |
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Post by hal9thou on Feb 21, 2020 18:36:48 GMT
OK, we're getting off Grant Hall but I would say the biggest and most significant difference since I started watching in '63 is fitness and athleticism. Whether it is 2-3-5,4-4-2,4-2-4,4-3-3 etc...I could put old guys and modern players in various positions. For example, the old half back line was a centre half and two wing halves. One wing half was a hard man and one more of a footballer (Duncan Edwards was one of the first but even I'm not that old) like Alan Mullery. So effectively two CBs and a defensive midfielder - not that different. Fitness wise they wouldn't live in today's company. Don't forget that heavy leather ball with a lace though. I think by 2004 that was on the way out 
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Post by esoxlucius on Feb 21, 2020 18:45:27 GMT
Don't forget that heavy leather ball with a lace though. I think by 2004 that was on the way out
"The first completely non-leather ball appeared in the 1960s, but Fifa preferred leather, albeit with a fully waterproof coating, for World Cups until Mexico 1986, when the synthetic Adidas Azteca was used." © A Brief History Of The Football in The Guardian. |
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Post by 1qprdk on Feb 21, 2020 20:25:43 GMT
Has he ever coached though? No he hasn´t, but he talks a good game, and is worth at least 50 Les Ferdinands  He would only need one or two sessions with our lads to get that backline sorted  |
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Post by hal9thou on Feb 21, 2020 23:29:14 GMT
Has he ever coached though? He would only need one or two sessions with our lads to get that backline sorted Hopefully the job would last longer than a couple of sessions....
Badges? Fuck that. Look at the geniuses with coaching badges we've had in recent times. Jesus. What you need is a brain plus quality experience.
He was always the most articulate of that lot, best right back they ever had. (Cashley best left back.) Don't worry about Les. There's a job for him selling kit in the shop..
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Post by esoxlucius on Feb 22, 2020 10:59:25 GMT
Les is the the best thing that has happened to QPR in a long time. IMO.
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Post by hal9thou on Feb 22, 2020 14:27:03 GMT
Les is the the best thing that has happened to QPR in a long time. IMO.
Possibly the single sentence I've most disagreed with in my entire WATRB / RF1 career.
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Post by esoxlucius on Feb 22, 2020 15:41:20 GMT
Les is the the best thing that has happened to QPR in a long time. IMO.
Possibly the single sentence I've most disagreed with in my entire WATRB / RF1 career.
I did say in my opinion. I think we would be admin or out of business without him. |
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Post by 1qprdk on Feb 23, 2020 1:32:25 GMT
The first good thing Les did was to stop 'Arry spunking another 100 million on players from his little black book in the January transfer window. Since then he´s had ups and downs with the managerial appointments, but all in all I think we are better off with him than without him, and I don´t think the positive changes to our youth set up, with Ramsey and co., would have come about without him. I also don´t think it hurts to have a profile like him, when young players (and their parents) decide where to get a contract. But maybe we will sell more shirts if they send him down the club shop  |
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Post by alanwycombe on Feb 23, 2020 3:35:57 GMT
OK, we're getting off Grant Hall but I would say the biggest and most significant difference since I started watching in '63 is fitness and athleticism. Whether it is 2-3-5,4-4-2,4-2-4,4-3-3 etc...I could put old guys and modern players in various positions. For example, the old half back line was a centre half and two wing halves. One wing half was a hard man and one more of a footballer (Duncan Edwards was one of the first but even I'm not that old) like Alan Mullery. So effectively two CBs and a defensive midfielder - not that different. Fitness wise they wouldn't live in today's company. Don't forget that heavy leather ball with a lace though. A lot of modern footballers with their running shoes would break the foot trying to kick it when it was wet. Also the state of the pitches required a different type of fitness and style. Give me today's fitness and equipment any day, much better game now. Given how shit it was in comparison I would love to see some of the old stars who excelled despite that reborn today. |
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Post by Bill on Feb 23, 2020 13:15:53 GMT
Don't forget that heavy leather ball with a lace though. A lot of modern footballers with their running shoes would break the foot trying to kick it when it was wet. Also the state of the pitches required a different type of fitness and style. Give me today's fitness and equipment any day, much better game now. Given how shit it was in comparison I would love to see some of the old stars who excelled despite that reborn today. I beg to differ todays game is rife with diving fake injuries var and numerous other negative elements. I would take the blood and guts if the old days every day of the week. Atrocious pitches old style boots etc.How the hell did Best,Marsh,Bowles and many others play like they did.In addition coping with defenders like Harris,Hunter,Smith,Mackay and whole list of other hard men. Much more entertaining than the fairies nowdays.IMO |
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Post by Corbray on Feb 23, 2020 13:21:00 GMT
Don't forget that heavy leather ball with a lace though. A lot of modern footballers with their running shoes would break the foot trying to kick it when it was wet. Also the state of the pitches required a different type of fitness and style. Give me today's fitness and equipment any day, much better game now. Given how shit it was in comparison I would love to see some of the old stars who excelled despite that reborn today. what players from the 70's-80's would have been able to play in today's modern era out of curiosity? i'm not talking like a hypothetical situation where you have someone like terry butcher for example able to take advantage of today's coaching to be a better player but rather a player's playing style etc. the way the game has changed leaps and bounds from the 70's-80's to today. i know players like maradona and dalgleish for example would have excelled in today's game but what about other players, especially defenders would have been good enough to pluck them up from their prime and put them into a modern day team? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2020 13:31:55 GMT
Give me today's fitness and equipment any day, much better game now. Given how shit it was in comparison I would love to see some of the old stars who excelled despite that reborn today. what players from the 70's-80's would have been able to play in today's modern era out of curiosity? i'm not talking like a hypothetical situation where you have someone like terry butcher for example able to take advantage of today's coaching to be a better player but rather a player's playing style etc. the way the game has changed leaps and bounds from the 70's-80's to today. i know players like maradona and dalgleish for example would have excelled in today's game but what about other players, especially defenders would have been good enough to pluck them up from their prime and put them into a modern day team? Hoddle. Was ahead of his time. |
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He would only need one or two sessions with our lads to get that backline sorted 
