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Post by Stanley75 on May 5, 2019 0:12:55 GMT
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Post by BrightonR on May 5, 2019 1:30:00 GMT
Oh dear. Makes you wonder how this sort of stuff was ever allowed to happen.
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Post by lymehoop on May 5, 2019 6:09:18 GMT
I don't know if we are coming out of that mess, next season worries me. If we survive I think we'll recover, if we don't . . .
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Post by esoxlucius on May 5, 2019 7:01:52 GMT
Carl Serrant, our fitness coach at the time, told me a very similar story about the dressing room. 3-4 of the players who were in the promotion side were openly aggressive in training against those who were bought in and this led to a "French" clique forming who wanted nothing to do with the politics of it. Zamora was a target in the dressing room which led to his infamous "I'd rather be fishing" quote. Warnock has to take a lot of the blame as he openly stated that he left dressing room discipline to two of the players and that didn't sit well with the others. Obviously I never saw any of this with my own eyes but I have no reason to doubt what I was told, especially in light of other stories going about at the time and now, Gabbidon's tale. The fact that two players, popular with the fans, were shipped out to help repair the dressing room says a lot about just how bad things were.
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Post by James1979 on May 5, 2019 7:29:22 GMT
Carl Serrant, our fitness coach at the time, told me a very similar story about the dressing room. 3-4 of the players who were in the promotion side were openly aggressive in training against those who were bought in and this led to a "French" clique forming who wanted nothing to do with the politics of it. Zamora was a target in the dressing room which led to his infamous "I'd rather be fishing" quote. Warnock has to take a lot of the blame as he openly stated that he left dressing room discipline to two of the players and that didn't sit well with the others. Obviously I never saw any of this with my own eyes but I have no reason to doubt what I was told, especially in light of other stories going about at the time and now, Gabbidon's tale. The fact that two players, popular with the fans, were shipped out to help repair the dressing room says a lot about just how bad things were. But the French clique must have been our 2nd season in the prem if you look at players we had. Warnock didn’t sign that many and included Barton who got on with Derry and Hill.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2019 7:39:56 GMT
Carl Serrant, our fitness coach at the time, told me a very similar story about the dressing room. 3-4 of the players who were in the promotion side were openly aggressive in training against those who were bought in and this led to a "French" clique forming who wanted nothing to do with the politics of it. Zamora was a target in the dressing room which led to his infamous "I'd rather be fishing" quote. Warnock has to take a lot of the blame as he openly stated that he left dressing room discipline to two of the players and that didn't sit well with the others. Obviously I never saw any of this with my own eyes but I have no reason to doubt what I was told, especially in light of other stories going about at the time and now, Gabbidon's tale. The fact that two players, popular with the fans, were shipped out to help repair the dressing room says a lot about just how bad things were. Who were the two shipped out? Barton and one other?
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Post by Stanley75 on May 5, 2019 7:43:51 GMT
Who were the two shipped out? Barton and one other? Yes, was about to ask the same question :-)
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Post by James1979 on May 5, 2019 7:48:37 GMT
You getting the wrong season lads. He means 11/12 so maybe Hill and Rowlands? Although no French clique then....unless it was dear old Armand on his own
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Post by Stanley75 on May 5, 2019 7:50:27 GMT
unless it was dear old Armand on his own Armand and Adel were quite tight I remember. Both spoke French. Then there was Diakite. Cisse came later didn't he...
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2019 7:54:35 GMT
unless it was dear old Armand on his own Armand and Adel were quite tight I remember. Both spoke French. Then there was Diakite. Cisse came later didn't he... Cisse and Diakite arrived same month Trying to piece together the timeline as the signings that arrived in the summer of 11 were mainly English.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2019 7:55:45 GMT
unless it was dear old Armand on his own Armand and Adel were quite tight I remember. Both spoke French. Then there was Diakite. Cisse came later didn't he... Yeah but those being shipped out wouldn't have happened until the following summer
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Post by James1979 on May 5, 2019 7:56:07 GMT
Cisse and Diakite came in after Warnock left though
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2019 7:59:28 GMT
Cisse and Diakite came in after Warnock left though And Zamora
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2019 8:01:19 GMT
Who were the two shipped out? Barton and one other? Yes, was about to ask the same question :-) Heidar, Kenny or Barton 🤔 all left the club in summer of 2012. Kenny didn't have much good to say about the club after he left.
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Post by Stanley75 on May 5, 2019 8:02:54 GMT
So Adel and Traore. Those two were definitely close. And we know about the infamous clashing between Barton and Adel.
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Post by James1979 on May 5, 2019 8:07:42 GMT
But Adel was part of the promotion side and Barton was the one on big wages.
If you listen to Derry and Clint on one of the podcasts, sounds like a school playground in the way they all acted.
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Post by jfrabbit on May 5, 2019 8:27:01 GMT
I see he couldn’t help praising his Welsh mate Hughes who was nothing but a disaster for QPR.
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Post by West Acton on May 5, 2019 8:31:13 GMT
I blame Flávio and knee high for the last minute trolley dash which started the cycle we have never recovered from.
I was also told by very reliable source that one of our old guard hero’s was very and intentionally disruptive and unwelcoming to new players and encouraged the clique
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2019 9:29:26 GMT
Warnock trusted Derry and Hill completely and I would guess they would be very very prominent in the dressing room.
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Post by esoxlucius on May 5, 2019 9:44:45 GMT
But Adel was part of the promotion side and Barton was the one on big wages. If you listen to Derry and Clint on one of the podcasts, sounds like a school playground in the way they all acted. Mackie & Derry were the ones shipped out and Hill was also part of it but stayed.
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Post by Rangers77 on May 5, 2019 9:56:56 GMT
But Adel was part of the promotion side and Barton was the one on big wages. If you listen to Derry and Clint on one of the podcasts, sounds like a school playground in the way they all acted. Mackie & Derry were the ones shipped out and Hill was also part of it but stayed. Not so. Derry and Mackie were regulars that first season. As was Hill when he was brought back from the Forest loan. Hill and Anton F kept Gabbidon out of the team, so I doubt he's the most reliably witness. There was clearly a division between some new comers - SWP especially- and the old guard, but it's wrong to claim fault on the part of the old guard. Great guys, good pros, and I'd back them every time.
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Post by esoxlucius on May 5, 2019 10:25:15 GMT
Mackie & Derry were the ones shipped out and Hill was also part of it but stayed. Not so. Derry and Mackie were regulars that first season. As was Hill when he was brought back from the Forest loan. Hill and Anton F kept Gabbidon out of the team, so I doubt he's the most reliably witness. There was clearly a division between some new comers - SWP especially- and the old guard, but it's wrong to claim fault on the part of the old guard. Great guys, good pros, and I'd back them every time. That was what the problem was, the old guard never received any increase in money except Adel after threatening to leave (£27k to £43k) I was told). It was during that first season that the problem festered and simmered and Warnock didn't do anything about it but, as alluded to by Gabbidon, Hughes came in and tried to sort it out. I don't blame the promoted players for wanting the rewards available when seeing journeymen like Barton, SW-P etc on silly money, but how they went about it was wrong. The French cliques WAS the second season under Hughes and was Traoré, Adel, Cissé and Remy for a short while. I spoke with Traoré a number of times at games and he was quite affected by it all at the time. He was also quite worried about his performances as he couldn't get past his mental block regarding the next injury he got could finish his career and knew it was affecting his ability to perform as required. We discussed a few self help books and the one that worked for him best was the one that a lot of Archers use for preparing for competitions etc. called The Chimp Paradox. As well as the club, a lot of good players were ruined by QPR during that time, Vargas, Isla, Remy, M'Bia spring to mind and in a different way, Diakité. Dark days at QPR then but I feel there is light appearing at the end of the tunnel, and it's not the light of an oncoming train.
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Post by James1979 on May 5, 2019 10:28:12 GMT
Yeah I agree with that. Bullying culture seemed to be rife and don’t think we can blame just the underperforming overpaid players for our relegation
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Post by Rangers77 on May 5, 2019 10:46:56 GMT
One Hill, Derry, Tommy Smith, Kenny, Heider is worth a 1,000 Traore's, SWPs, Remy's or M'Bia's. All did nothing after leaving us. Cisse, however, was a player on or in his day.
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Post by Brian Wilson on May 5, 2019 10:57:39 GMT
I spoke with Traoré a number of times at games and he was quite affected by it all at the time. He was also quite worried about his performances as he couldn't get past his mental block regarding the next injury he got could finish his career and knew it was affecting his ability to perform as required. We discussed a few self help books and the one that worked for him best was the one that a lot of Archers use for preparing for competitions etc. called The Chimp Paradox. As well as the club, a lot of good players were ruined by QPR during that time, Vargas, Isla, Remy, M'Bia spring to mind and in a different way, Diakité. Dark days at QPR then but I feel there is light appearing at the end of the tunnel, and it's not the light of an oncoming train. That's interesting. How do you mean a different way regarding Diakite?
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Post by West Acton on May 5, 2019 11:09:37 GMT
Yeah I agree with that. Bullying culture seemed to be rife and don’t think we can blame just the underperforming overpaid players for our relegation really accurate post this
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Post by esoxlucius on May 5, 2019 12:23:43 GMT
I spoke with Traoré a number of times at games and he was quite affected by it all at the time. He was also quite worried about his performances as he couldn't get past his mental block regarding the next injury he got could finish his career and knew it was affecting his ability to perform as required. We discussed a few self help books and the one that worked for him best was the one that a lot of Archers use for preparing for competitions etc. called The Chimp Paradox. As well as the club, a lot of good players were ruined by QPR during that time, Vargas, Isla, Remy, M'Bia spring to mind and in a different way, Diakité. Dark days at QPR then but I feel there is light appearing at the end of the tunnel, and it's not the light of an oncoming train. That's interesting. How do you mean a different way regarding Diakite? Some of his family was killed in the civil war in Mali.
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Post by esoxlucius on May 5, 2019 12:27:49 GMT
One Hill, Derry, Tommy Smith, Kenny, Heider is worth a 1,000 Traore's, SWPs, Remy's or M'Bia's. All did nothing after leaving us. Cisse, however, was a player on or in his day. M'Bia won consecutive Europa Cups in the two seasons after he left us. Vargas was Golden Boot in the CONCAF tournament. As I said, we ruined a number of players back then.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2019 12:57:47 GMT
One Hill, Derry, Tommy Smith, Kenny, Heider is worth a 1,000 Traore's, SWPs, Remy's or M'Bia's. All did nothing after leaving us. Cisse, however, was a player on or in his day. M'Bia won consecutive Europa Cups in the two seasons after he left us. Vargas was Golden Boot in the CONCAF tournament. As I said, we ruined a number of players back then. Remy one of the top scorers in the league up at Newcastle as well. Played a part in Chelsea's title win when he left us permanently.
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Post by West Acton on May 5, 2019 13:02:40 GMT
When you put al the names together there is no excuse for how we performed there should have been a very tidy competitive team for the prem. total miss management to blame for not pulling it together
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