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Post by Rangers77 on Sept 2, 2024 6:33:00 GMT
Just saw that eleven of the twenty man squad that won at Middlesbrough this time last year have been moved on. That's quite the turnover.
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Post by Stanley75 on Sept 2, 2024 7:42:10 GMT
Just saw that eleven of the twenty man squad that won at Middlesbrough this time last year have been moved on. That's quite the turnover. With nine new signings and four more for the dev squad |
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Post by hubble on Sept 2, 2024 7:44:11 GMT
Nardi
Dunne Cook JCS Paal
Field Madsen/Colback (depending on oppo)
Santos Dembele Andersen
Frey
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2024 7:56:13 GMT
More interesting are the names that are missing from the teams named above. New players brought in for a purpose but still unknown to the fans so we end up a core of a team similar to last season
Frankly I would not even attempt to name a starting 11. It is a squad game these days and we will see the squad rotate depending on who and where we are playing, injuries and suspensions and fresh legs when we get to the Saturday/Wednesady/Saturday weeks. That's why we have built a squad of close to 2 players per position.
So I would name a squad of at least 17 with most of the names mentioned above plus the new signings that do not appear such as Saito, Celar, Varane, Santos Ashby etc. These new guys are not going to get used to the championship or develop sitting on the bench. For example the team above from Hubble has 3 or 4 new players not with us last season when as Rangers77 and Stanley point out how much we have built a new squad.
One name that keeps appearing I just do not get is Smyth. Sure he is all effort and running to put pressure on as a sub but just reminds me of Jamie Mackie - a supposed goal scorer when we signed him but now more like a road runner turning into another "fans favourite" for effort but no end result.. If are going to settle for Smyth level mediocrity we are going nowhere (but down) - but Marti will be.
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Post by Corbray on Sept 2, 2024 9:18:41 GMT
More interesting are the names that are missing from the teams named above. New players brought in for a purpose but still unknown to the fans so we end up a core of a team similar to last season Frankly I would not even attempt to name a starting 11. It is a squad game these days and we will see the squad rotate depending on who and where we are playing, injuries and suspensions and fresh legs when we get to the Saturday/Wednesady/Saturday weeks. That's why we have built a squad of close to 2 players per position. So I would name a squad of at least 17 with most of the names mentioned above plus the new signings that do not appear such as Saito, Celar, Varane, Santos Ashby etc. These new guys are not going to get used to the championship or develop sitting on the bench. For example the team above from Hubble has 3 or 4 new players not with us last season when as Rangers77 and Stanley point out how much we have built a new squad. One name that keeps appearing I just do not get is Smyth. Sure he is all effort and running to put pressure on as a sub but just reminds me of Jamie Mackie - a supposed goal scorer when we signed him but now more like a road runner turning into another "fans favourite" for effort but no end result.. If are going to settle for Smyth level mediocrity we are going nowhere (but down) - but Marti will be. think with smyth no one is saying that he should be one of the first names on the team sheet or that he's one of our best players but he is certainly one of our most dependable and a different weapon in our arsenal. he's stepped up this season but still league 1 at best and imo has a part to play this season whether that be for chasing a goal with his pace or working hard to close out games. he'll give his all and do everything asked if him, watch the last ten minutes of the luton game as an example. he was closing everyone down, nipping at their heels and clearing balls. that's what i like about him, he'll give his all and can come in handy from time to time. he doesn't get the credit he deserves imo, i know if a couple of occasions last season where we scored from a set piece that he won for us. |
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Post by alanwycombe on Sept 2, 2024 10:01:06 GMT
Thing is, he immediately ties up two when he comes on as they double up on him.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2024 10:32:35 GMT
More interesting are the names that are missing from the teams named above. New players brought in for a purpose but still unknown to the fans so we end up a core of a team similar to last season Frankly I would not even attempt to name a starting 11. It is a squad game these days and we will see the squad rotate depending on who and where we are playing, injuries and suspensions and fresh legs when we get to the Saturday/Wednesady/Saturday weeks. That's why we have built a squad of close to 2 players per position. So I would name a squad of at least 17 with most of the names mentioned above plus the new signings that do not appear such as Saito, Celar, Varane, Santos Ashby etc. These new guys are not going to get used to the championship or develop sitting on the bench. For example the team above from Hubble has 3 or 4 new players not with us last season when as Rangers77 and Stanley point out how much we have built a new squad. One name that keeps appearing I just do not get is Smyth. Sure he is all effort and running to put pressure on as a sub but just reminds me of Jamie Mackie - a supposed goal scorer when we signed him but now more like a road runner turning into another "fans favourite" for effort but no end result.. If are going to settle for Smyth level mediocrity we are going nowhere (but down) - but Marti will be. or that he's one of our best players but he is certainly one of our most dependable and a different weapon in our arsenal. he's stepped up this season but still league 1 at best and imo has a part to play this season whether that be for chasing a goal with his pace or working hard to close out games. he'll give his all and do everything asked if him, watch the last ten minutes of the luton game as an example. he was closing everyone down, nipping at their heels and clearing balls. that's what i like about him, he'll give his all and can come in handy from time to time. he doesn't get the credit he deserves imo, i know if a couple of occasions last season where we scored from a set piece that he won for us. There in lies the 2 problems. Roughly 50% of the starting teams named above include Smyth so people do say he should be on the team sheet as a first choice starter. The killer point then is "still league 1 at best" Many of the players we cleared out during the summer were 'league 1 at best" probably including Dykes and Armstrong so why did we not just stick with them. Our aim must be for continuous improvement so having a league 1 at best level player to make a 10 minute impact as a sub is not improvement. We want players who can make an impact (not just through effort and chasing balls down) throughout a whole game and we have signed a string of players some of whom have hardly featured yet who can do that. Smyth scored 13 goals in 2 seasons in League 2 including in a promotion winning team and before that out on loan he managed 8 goals in 70 starts in League one. The test is if he was still with a league one club and someone suggested we buy him what would the reaction be on here?. Just my opinion of course. |
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Post by hal9thou on Sept 2, 2024 11:06:20 GMT
The old idea of a 'first eleven' just doesn't apply anymore, its a squad game. Some people reckon this evolved from American Football, some from the Springboks systematic utilisation of subs in union.
Marti would probably say that even if they're all fit the eleven starters depend on the opposition, and bench depends on that. Big Picture etc etc.
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Post by Rangers77 on Sept 2, 2024 12:04:50 GMT
Big Smyth fan. I love his energy and effort. His best position is wide on the right, and he's never started there.
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Post by alanwycombe on Sept 2, 2024 12:49:26 GMT
The old idea of a 'first eleven' just doesn't apply anymore, its a squad game. Some people reckon this evolved from American Football, some from the Springboks systematic utilisation of subs in union. Marti would probably say that even if they're all fit the eleven starters depend on the opposition, and bench depends on that. Big Picture etc etc. Became a squad game when they increased the number of subs. Will be 11 first half, different 11 second half one day😁 |
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Post by acricketer on Sept 2, 2024 12:58:14 GMT
I think Smyth is better than a league 1 player. He has pace and that for one scares the bejesus out of defenders. He gets stuck in, never hides (rarely see comments "Is he on the pitch?"). Yes, his end product needs to improve but I always like seeing him in or around the team.
By the by, surprised how many of the above selections leave out Chair.
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Post by Corbray on Sept 2, 2024 13:17:52 GMT
I think Smyth is better than a league 1 player. He has pace and that for one scares the bejesus out of defenders. He gets stuck in, never hides (rarely see comments "Is he on the pitch?"). Yes, his end product needs to improve but I always like seeing him in or around the team. By the by, surprised how many of the above selections leave out Chair. that's what i like about smyth but even so ability wise he is league 1 standard. if he wasn't as pacey as he is then that's the league he'd be playing in. you said it yourself, his end product needs to be improved but at 27 in a week's time he's hit his peak and we can't really expect him to get better, more mature and experienced to better do what he's good at but this is it in terms of how good he will be imo. still a big fan of smyth eitherway. |
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Post by Stanley75 on Sept 2, 2024 13:27:15 GMT
Smyth in summary:
Strengths
Hustles and harries
Pace
Weaknesses
Final ball / Inconsistent crossing
Finishing
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2024 13:46:01 GMT
Smyth in summary: StrengthsHustles and harries Pace WeaknessesFinal ball / Inconsistent crossing Finishing Armstrong in summary Strengths Hustles and harries Pace Weaknesses Final ball / Inconsistent crossing Finishing So we should be able to sell Smyth for a couple of million in January then. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2024 13:46:27 GMT
I think Smyth is better than a league 1 player. He has pace and that for one scares the bejesus out of defenders. He gets stuck in, never hides (rarely see comments "Is he on the pitch?"). Yes, his end product needs to improve but I always like seeing him in or around the team. By the by, surprised how many of the above selections leave out Chair. and Saito |
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Post by Stanley75 on Sept 2, 2024 13:54:07 GMT
Smyth in summary: StrengthsHustles and harries Pace WeaknessesFinal ball / Inconsistent crossing Finishing Armstrong in Strengths Hustles and harries Pace Weaknesses Final ball / Inconsistent crossing Finishing So we should be able to sell Smyth for a couple of million in January then. Except, allegedly, Armstrong is more of a striker and Smyth more of a winger. 5 year age difference too FWIW... |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2024 13:56:37 GMT
Armstrong in Strengths Hustles and harries Pace Weaknesses Final ball / Inconsistent crossing Finishing So we should be able to sell Smyth for a couple of million in January then. Except, allegedly, Armstrong is more of a striker and Smyth more of a winger. 5 year age difference too FWIW... Allegedly - or that's what Nourry told Bristol City  |
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Post by Stanley75 on Sept 2, 2024 13:59:09 GMT
Pretty different types of players, other than that.
Armstrong much stronger, more upper body strength, so won't get knocked off the ball
Smyth, almost the opposite in that regard - the fact that he's slight, he tries to turn that into an attribute by easily going down under challenge and playing for a foul when it would often be more advantageous to stay on his feet, as tends to only get awarded the foul 50% of the time.
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Post by hal9thou on Sept 2, 2024 14:12:01 GMT
The old idea of a 'first eleven' just doesn't apply anymore, its a squad game. Some people reckon this evolved from American Football, some from the Springboks systematic utilisation of subs in union. Marti would probably say that even if they're all fit the eleven starters depend on the opposition, and bench depends on that. Big Picture etc etc. Became a squad game when they increased the number of subs. Surprising how many gaffers missed out on the opportunities that gave them, Ainsworth comes straight to mind for some reason.... Southgate ditto. I could go on. One thing analysts do is look at other sports, how tactics are being used / evolved etc. Think that played a part in the development of bench tactics. |
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Post by gladstoneparkranger on Sept 2, 2024 18:50:41 GMT
Turned a little into Smythe thread but my formation or just playing two upfront is that he’s a ball carrier and even though he has the weakness’s many have pointed out he does something , and gets my vote, not many others do and takes a player on and looks to move the ball forward. If he does that and gets Dembele/chair on the ball quickly for the killer pass, goals should come as hate this crab 🦀 football without penetration.
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Post by gladstoneparkranger on Sept 7, 2024 21:42:06 GMT
We keep making teams to accommodate Dembélé and Chair in team together and no problem with one sitting out to impact team off the bench!,,, Two strikers starting makes us a different proposition
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Post by Stanley75 on Sept 7, 2024 22:11:29 GMT
We keep making teams to accommodate Dembélé and Chair in team together IMO it'll be fairly straightforward as Dembele is best as a 10 and Chair's best on the left. Two strikers starting makes us a different proposition I don't recall Marti ever starting with two strikers. He tends to do that second half as a Plan B, but starts with a 4-5-1. |
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Post by West Acton on Sept 8, 2024 7:36:53 GMT
Smyth in summary: StrengthsHustles and harries Pace WeaknessesFinal ball / Inconsistent crossing Finishing you have just described a dog in the strengths all that is missing is brings stick back to you 😁 I’m on same page as Robin on Smyth simply not good enough as a starter and has shown no real signs in either of his stints at club of being good enough. No point having bundles of pace if the delivery is to the keeper out for a throw or goal kick, that’s when he does not run out of pitch. Would rather have a slower player who can deliver a ball than zero end product. Beckham (I’m not saying he will ever be him but using as example) had no pace but got ball in space and delivered it into danger zone. If you look at his stats they are shocking. Since he joined us in 2017 across six clubs he’s got eleven assists in eight years. Why do people think that’s suddenly going turn into 10+ assists a season when he’s never delivered those figures. Like Armstrong were hoping they’re going to turn into something because of their attributes when everything in front of our eyes is saying not good enough. Let’s be honest with ourselves if Ainsworth had not brought back who on this board a few weeks back before window closed would have been suggesting let’s get Smyth from Orient?? Absolutely none of you. To be even in assessment he was bright off bench versus Luton and I think if he has part to play it’s from the bench but if he’s starting option week in week out then it will be another slog of a season. |
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Post by Stanley75 on Sept 8, 2024 8:33:31 GMT
Smyth in summary: StrengthsHustles and harries Pace WeaknessesFinal ball / Inconsistent crossing Finishing you have just described a dog in the strengths all that is missing is brings stick back to you 😁 I’m on same page as Robin on Smyth simply not good enough as a starter and has shown no real signs in either of his stints at club of being good enough. No point having bundles of pace if the delivery is to the keeper out for a throw or goal kick, that’s when he does not run out of pitch. Would rather have a slower player who can deliver a ball than zero end product. Beckham (I’m not saying he will ever be him but using as example) had no pace but got ball in space and delivered it into danger zone. If you look at his stats they are shocking. Since he joined us in 2017 across six clubs he’s got eleven assists in eight years. Why do people think that’s suddenly going turn into 10+ assists a season when he’s never delivered those figures. Like Armstrong were hoping they’re going to turn into something because of their attributes when everything in front of our eyes is saying not good enough. Let’s be honest with ourselves if Ainsworth had not brought back who on this board a few weeks back before window closed would have been suggesting let’s get Smyth from Orient?? Absolutely none of you. To be even in assessment he was bright off bench versus Luton and I think if he has part to play it’s from the bench but if he’s starting option week in week out then it will be another slog of a season. Couldn't agree more Mackie Mk II Non starter but good 2nd half option from bench e.g. Luton away where he did very well. |
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Sept 8, 2024 9:33:13 GMT
Mackie never my kind of player but he scored crucial goals - eg at home to Liverpool in one of the best moments of our recent Premier League spells - and also assists, like the one he laid on a plate for Adel at Selhurst Park. For all his energy and determination Smyth still isn’t doing that. Two fairly major omissions for an attacking player! If he is a regular second half sub and occasional starter this year how many assists and goals do any of you realistically think he will get?
And btw, only fair to acknowledge he has improved this season so definite credit there. But still those stats columns looking pretty empty. Andersen has very different frustrations but you just know if he gets minutes he will get some goals and assists
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Post by Stanley75 on Sept 8, 2024 10:12:26 GMT
Mackie never my kind of player but he scored crucial goals - eg at home to Liverpool in one of the best moments of our recent Premier League spells - and also assists, like the one he laid on a plate for Adel at Selhurst Park. For all his energy and determination Smyth still isn’t doing that. Two fairly major omissions for an attacking player! If he is a regular second half sub and occasional starter this year how many assists and goals do any of you realistically think he will get? And btw, only fair to acknowledge he has improved this season so definite credit there. But still those stats columns looking pretty empty. Andersen has very different frustrations but you just know if he gets minutes he will get some goals and assists Mackie in his second stint at the club, I was referring to. Different player first time round, certainly prior to leg break. |
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Post by West Acton on Sept 8, 2024 11:10:08 GMT
That’s good question Stanis about expectations for positions/individual players.
As a winger I would say a successful season would be say 10+ assists and minimum of five goals. That’s overall fifteen impressions over course of season. Fifteen dont seem that great over course of 42 game season but if other winger does same your thirty impressions before adding in other players.
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