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Post by Shania on Dec 11, 2020 14:24:40 GMT
I have these few last months read a bit about the origin of this style of play. I can tell you, It has been very interesting to go all the way back to where it all started, namely in Amsterdam with Ajax, Rinus Michels, Stefan Kovacs and Johan Cruyff. Albeit, we don`t master this somewhat romantic approch to this beatyfull game to perfection at QPR in this moment in time, I thought we could discuss and debate the various aspects of it. Fact is; The QPR team who won under Sexton in 1975 was very much influenced by Ajax and Holland, but I believe we played total fotball before that aswell? Please enlighten me, if I`m wrong.
Anyway, In the book "Zonal marking" by Michael Cox, who I will strongly recommend, a Czechoslovakian manager called Zsedek Rehan is quoted as a keen admirer of the characteristic 4-3-3 formation used by the Hungarian Kovacs, but instead of playing to wingers hugging the touchlines, he prefered them to cut inside and make space for fullbacks to bomb forward and attack. He had great success with this way of approching the game in Italy with Foggia and Lazio in the early 90s. Iconic players like Bocsic, Casiraghi and Signori scored many goals for Lazio.
All good so far, but even though this free flowing flower power fotball really please the eye when carried out to perfection, Marking zones; which I think we have often done in the past, and I believe do now, must be quite difficult to master?
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Post by gtleighsr3 on Dec 11, 2020 14:31:07 GMT
Got a book in doors ,its got orange in title. All about Dutch football. Tbf very hard going,almost as bad a Conan Ds Sherlock Holmes books which send any insomniac into a coma.
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Post by rscot on Dec 11, 2020 14:36:43 GMT
The Hungarians of the 1950’s were also revolutionary in the way they played the game. I believe that is where the 4-2-4 formation originated. And no I’m not mentioning the “Magical Magyars” because they gave England their heaviest ever defeat. 😏 Perhaps the greatest team never to win the World Cup?
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Post by Shania on Dec 11, 2020 14:38:20 GMT
Got a book in doors ,its got orange in title. All about Dutch football. Tbf very hard going,almost as bad a Conan Ds Sherlock Holmes books which send any insomniac into a coma. Ok, don`t read it then, it will only confuse you? . Or try again when Christmas is here!
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Post by Shania on Dec 11, 2020 14:51:43 GMT
The Hungarians of the 1950’s were also revolutionary in the way they played the game. I believe that is where the 4-2-4 formation originated. And no I’m not mentioning the “Magical Magyars” because they gave England their heaviest ever defeat. 😏 Perhaps the greatest team never to win the World Cup? That makes sense, because Stefan Kovacs is not the highest ranked Hungary.
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Post by rscot on Dec 11, 2020 14:53:04 GMT
Cruyff was very influential at Barcelona during his time there. Also very influential and perhaps underrated was Michael Laudrup. He is one of the greatest players to play the game and should be mentioned among the very best, in my opinion. I think he’s the best passer of the ball I’ve ever seen, his vision was unbelievable
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Post by rscot on Dec 11, 2020 15:00:45 GMT
The Hungarians of the 1950’s were also revolutionary in the way they played the game. I believe that is where the 4-2-4 formation originated. And no I’m not mentioning the “Magical Magyars” because they gave England their heaviest ever defeat. 😏 Perhaps the greatest team never to win the World Cup? That makes sense, because Stefan Kovacs is not the highest ranked Hungary. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Team
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Post by Shania on Dec 11, 2020 15:07:31 GMT
Cruyff was very influential at Barcelona during his time there. Also very influential and perhaps underrated was Michael Laudrup. He is one of the greatest players to play the game and should be mentioned among the very best, in my opinion. I think he’s the best passer of the ball I’ve ever seen, his vision was unbelievable Yepp, Laudrup was great.
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Post by rscot on Dec 11, 2020 15:11:57 GMT
Cruyff was very influential at Barcelona during his time there. Also very influential and perhaps underrated was Michael Laudrup. He is one of the greatest players to play the game and should be mentioned among the very best, in my opinion. I think he’s the best passer of the ball I’ve ever seen, his vision was unbelievable Yepp, Laudrup was great. One of the greatest, I’d rank him up there with anyone. He should be mentioned among the greatest to play the game.
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Post by Shania on Dec 11, 2020 15:22:39 GMT
This is interesting. The last paragraph where The Hungarian way of play is connected to Holland many years later, in particular! Historic significance Statue of Ferenc Puskás (1927–2006) Hungarian footballer in Óbuda. The work of art inspired by a photograph taken in Madrid commemorates the legendary player of the "Golden Team" who elegantly dressed in costume teaches an ad hoc course in keepie uppie to street children. The statue was unveiled March 28, 2013 in Budapest, District III The historical significance of the team lay in three areas; the introduction of new tactics, the concept of using a core set of well trained players used to playing as a team, and the idea that each player could play in any position if necessary. The importance of Gusztáv Sebes cannot be underestimated. His tactics – especially the concept of a deep lying centre forward – revolutionised a game where the majority of club and international sides had played the WM formation for the previous 20 years. The introduction and success of the Hungarian 3–2–3–2 formation led other managers and countries to experiment, with the 3–2–3–2 eventually evolving into the 4–2–4 formation. Sebes's idea of using a core set of players, drawn from just a handful of clubs, was a new idea that was critical to the success of the team. Most national teams were selected on the concept of picking the best players, not the best team; England famously had a selection committee that selected the team for each game, with little or no sense of continuity. By using players who were familiar with each other's strengths at a club level, Sebes introduced a sense of continuity at a national level – something no other nation had at the time. The Soviet Union adopted this approach throughout the 1960s, with success at a European level; England won the World Cup in 1966 with a core of players from one club, West Ham United. Sebes also demanded rigorous training and standards of physical fitness from his players, as well as good tactic awareness – again, these were areas that many national sides of the time neglected. As a consequence, the Hungarian side were able to outrun, outpass and outplay their opposition. Perhaps his most revolutionary idea was that every player should be able to play in all positions; previously, each player in a team was assigned a specific position or role, usually marking a specific opposition player. The Hungarian tactic of players constantly changing roles and positions contributed greatly to the success of the team – however, it could only be introduced by using a core set of talented players who were used to playing together at both a club and national level for a period of time. It would be nearly 20 years before the Dutch national team of the 1970s utili
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Post by rscot on Dec 11, 2020 15:27:45 GMT
People either don’t know or forget about the Hungarians of the 1950’s and their impact on football. It was a real shame they never won the World Cup. They did manage to equalise against the Germans but the ref gave it as offside. Probably the greatest team of all time, their record is ridiculous
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Post by rscot on Dec 11, 2020 15:31:25 GMT
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Post by Shania on Dec 11, 2020 15:31:44 GMT
People either don’t know or forget about the Hungarians of the 1950’s and their impact on football. It was a real shame they never won the World Cup. They did manage to equalise against the Germans but the ref gave it as offside. Probably the greatest team of all time, their record is ridiculous True that.
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Post by 1qprdk on Dec 11, 2020 15:59:57 GMT
One of the greatest, I’d rank him up there with anyone. He should be mentioned among the greatest to play the game. Yes. Unbelievably good. Best player to never win Ballon d'Or.
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Post by rscot on Dec 11, 2020 16:07:21 GMT
One of the greatest, I’d rank him up there with anyone. He should be mentioned among the greatest to play the game. Yes. Unbelievably good. Best player to never win Ballon d'Or. I think he goes under the radar somewhat because he played for Denmark and also because he played in the era just before we had total media saturation of football. But i think he was hugely influential to the Barcelona and Spanish players that came after him and went on to dominate European and World football.
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Post by 1973ranger on Dec 11, 2020 16:08:55 GMT
The Hungarians of the 1950’s were also revolutionary in the way they played the game. I believe that is where the 4-2-4 formation originated. And no I’m not mentioning the “Magical Magyars” because they gave England their heaviest ever defeat. 😏 Perhaps the greatest team never to win the World Cup? Brazil in 82 would run them close. Crap goalkeeper and CF though.
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Post by rscot on Dec 11, 2020 16:12:46 GMT
The Hungarians of the 1950’s were also revolutionary in the way they played the game. I believe that is where the 4-2-4 formation originated. And no I’m not mentioning the “Magical Magyars” because they gave England their heaviest ever defeat. 😏 Perhaps the greatest team never to win the World Cup? Brazil in 82 would run them close. Crap goalkeeper and CF though. The Dutch in 74, Brazil in 82 and the Hungarians 54 are all mentioned as the greatest teams never to win the World Cup. But if you look at the Hungarians record over the 50’s it’s astounding. They were hammering everyone, home and away, year after year. There’s also mention of the Germans / Austrians of the 30’s being a great team who couldn’t compete at the competition
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Post by Shania on Dec 11, 2020 17:20:49 GMT
Now on to QPR of today: How far from playing total football are the team we have today?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2020 17:22:59 GMT
One of the greatest, I’d rank him up there with anyone. He should be mentioned among the greatest to play the game. Yes. Unbelievably good. Best player to never win Ballon d'Or. Thierry Henry?
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Post by gtleighsr3 on Dec 11, 2020 17:35:29 GMT
Now on to QPR of today: How far from playing total football are the team we have today? Buzz light-year says it.
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Post by Shania on Dec 11, 2020 19:06:18 GMT
Oh Well, so much for trying to give this weekend`s match a positive spin.
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Post by James1979 on Dec 11, 2020 23:31:24 GMT
Total football happens rarely.....especially at Loftus road. For me, only times were when we were losing and Holloway stuck Santos up front. Freezing your arse off and just watching us launch the thing to someone with no pace and no control. It was something to behold. What made it all the better was that, we did it repeatedly. Days that stick long in the memory.
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Post by acricketer on Dec 11, 2020 23:48:32 GMT
I watched some sublime football in 75/76. Magical.
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Post by 1qprdk on Dec 12, 2020 1:29:38 GMT
Yes. Unbelievably good. Best player to never win Ballon d'Or. Thierry Henry? Nah, but I´m kinda biased. Maradona maybe?
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Post by James1979 on Dec 12, 2020 8:17:38 GMT
I watched some sublime football in 75/76. Magical. I wasnt even a glint in the milkman’s eye then
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