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Post by Ginger Ninja on Nov 9, 2021 14:49:11 GMT
Today against Ipswich U23s.
Not sure of the score but apparently Kelman scored a hattrick and Wallace got an assist or 2.
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Post by Shania on Nov 9, 2021 15:08:15 GMT
Kelman will be sold in January is the rumour.
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Post by Greg1882 on Nov 9, 2021 15:13:59 GMT
Kelman will be sold in January is the rumour. The article actually says the club are looking to loan him out in January. |
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Post by Tarbie on Nov 9, 2021 15:23:10 GMT
Kelman isn't allowed to take part in competitive games until 1st of Jan anyway as a result of his loan stint. We should be looking to ship him out in January. I'd be inclined to give him 1 more chance on loan and then cut our losses in the summer if he doesn't produce this time around.
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Post by alanwycombe on Nov 9, 2021 16:18:17 GMT
Sorry but I don’t get the idea of buying rough diamonds or young potential with a view to working with them, then send them out to a shit club before writing them off. If we’re so good at developing players work with them here. Our current style of play doesn’t use an inside forward type like Kelman (could say the same about Bonne) so why bring him in?
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Post by 2Loftus on Nov 9, 2021 18:36:01 GMT
Give Kelman a chance, he's still very young and shows promise.
Charlie is getting chunkier and slower and increasingly enjoying his media gigs - increasingly playing as sub.
Who knows, next season their roles could be reversed...
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Post by Corbray on Nov 9, 2021 19:12:49 GMT
Kelman isn't allowed to take part in competitive games until 1st of Jan anyway as a result of his loan stint. We should be looking to ship him out in January. I'd be inclined to give him 1 more chance on loan and then cut our losses in the summer if he doesn't produce this time around. he's only just turned 20 lol, even if he doesn't light the world up when he goes back out on loan its not the end of him. need to hold out for at least 2 seasons to get a better idea of how he'll be imo. he's still a 'kid' afterall and still finding his feet. imo he needs to bulk up much more as he's very scrawny. the club are still very high on kelman and given our recent success in developing players one can only assume that kelman must have talent. |
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Post by Tarbie on Nov 9, 2021 20:01:41 GMT
Sorry but I don’t get the idea of buying rough diamonds or young potential with a view to working with them, then send them out to a shit club before writing them off. If we’re so good at developing players work with them here. Our current style of play doesn’t use an inside forward type like Kelman (could say the same about Bonne) so why bring him in? Speculation buying young players and/or players making up a jump up the divisions isn't it? Some work out, some don't. The important thing is knowing when to cut your losses in my opinion. I've more or less seen enough of Kelman to feel its close to time to call it a day. Fair enough if others think it's worth persevering a bit longer. |
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Post by Rangers77 on Nov 10, 2021 11:52:10 GMT
Kelman isn't allowed to take part in competitive games until 1st of Jan anyway as a result of his loan stint. We should be looking to ship him out in January. I'd be inclined to give him 1 more chance on loan and then cut our losses in the summer if he doesn't produce this time around. he's only just turned 20 lol, even if he doesn't light the world up when he goes back out on loan its not the end of him. need to hold out for at least 2 seasons to get a better idea of how he'll be imo. he's still a 'kid' afterall and still finding his feet. imo he needs to bulk up much more as he's very scrawny. the club are still very high on kelman and given our recent success in developing players one can only assume that kelman must have talent. Clive Allen scored 30 goals in a season when he was 19. Play players you buy. |
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Post by spongeparr on Nov 10, 2021 12:16:23 GMT
Sorry but I don’t get the idea of buying rough diamonds or young potential with a view to working with them, then send them out to a shit club before writing them off. If we’re so good at developing players work with them here. Our current style of play doesn’t use an inside forward type like Kelman (could say the same about Bonne) so why bring him in? Speculation buying young players and/or players making up a jump up the divisions isn't it? Some work out, some don't. The important thing is knowing when to cut your losses in my opinion. I've more or less seen enough of Kelman to feel its close to time to call it a day. Fair enough if others think it's worth persevering a bit longer. How have you seen him? Bit part sub appearances? He's barely played to have any chance of making it. Amazed that he's written off so quickly when he's still pretty young. He might not make it, but he's not going to be on high wages and he's on a decent length contract so we are absolutely right to keep him and try to develop him. If he doesn't make it, then fair play but nothing lost. Release him and then a team actually plays him and he does well and we have done ourselves over. |
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Post by croydoncaptainjack on Nov 10, 2021 12:31:34 GMT
Wow, some short-term shit on here isn't there?
He's still young with bags of potential. They just got the loan club wrong which they are pretty much admitting. Get him out somewhere else in Jan and see what happens but talk of offloading seems wildly premature at this stage.
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Post by alanwycombe on Nov 10, 2021 12:54:36 GMT
I’m not questioning the talent (or not) of Kelman just asking why we bought him. If we are embracing the modern idea of getting all teams at the club to play the same way why did we buy him and Bonne? We’ve wasted two years of Kelman’s young career. Neither he nor Bonne is a Dykes/Austin/Gray type of front man. As for developing players where are they? Nine of our first team(s) are usually players we’ve brought to the club recently. If we haven’t got a Clement/Francis/Waddock/Goddard/Allen/Gallen banging on the first team door are we actually an attractive option for talent? Different club now to when we had Sterling, and Eze was an exception, not typical. I get that a new training and youth development strategy is in its infancy but that means we will be looking to bring in players for a while yet - so shouldn’t they be players to suit the way MW wants to play, not Bonnes and Kelmans? We’re top six playing the way MW wants so why would he change anything to accommodate a different style of player?
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Post by Ginger Ninja on Nov 10, 2021 13:13:52 GMT
It's worth noting that Ebere Eze was with us a few years before realising his potential. He was given the chance. No reason why Kelman can't do the same. Can't believe he's being completely written off barely having kicked a ball for us.
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Post by Shania on Nov 10, 2021 13:30:56 GMT
Regarding Kelman, I hope QPR will find a club which play more or less the same way as we do in January.
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Post by Corbray on Nov 10, 2021 13:37:08 GMT
he's only just turned 20 lol, even if he doesn't light the world up when he goes back out on loan its not the end of him. need to hold out for at least 2 seasons to get a better idea of how he'll be imo. he's still a 'kid' afterall and still finding his feet. imo he needs to bulk up much more as he's very scrawny. the club are still very high on kelman and given our recent success in developing players one can only assume that kelman must have talent. Clive Allen scored 30 goals in a season when he was 19. Play players you buy. lots of players need time to settle in or have to grow as a person/player first before hitting their stride. we actually had one of our own in les ferdinand who took 4 years to finally get into our team, he was 25 when he finally broke through. ronaldo took 4 years to make strides with man utd kelman scored 5 in 18 for a god awful southend team in league 1 when he was only 18. he's still just a boy lol. he for sure does have talent but he just needs time, if it doesn't work out then oh well but if it does then we have a great player on our hands. nothing really to lose but lots to gain |
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Post by spongeparr on Nov 10, 2021 14:25:00 GMT
I’m not questioning the talent (or not) of Kelman just asking why we bought him. If we are embracing the modern idea of getting all teams at the club to play the same way why did we buy him and Bonne? We’ve wasted two years of Kelman’s young career. Neither he nor Bonne is a Dykes/Austin/Gray type of front man. As for developing players where are they? Nine of our first team(s) are usually players we’ve brought to the club recently. If we haven’t got a Clement/Francis/Waddock/Goddard/Allen/Gallen banging on the first team door are we actually an attractive option for talent? Different club now to when we had Sterling, and Eze was an exception, not typical. I get that a new training and youth development strategy is in its infancy but that means we will be looking to bring in players for a while yet - so shouldn’t they be players to suit the way MW wants to play, not Bonnes and Kelmans? We’re top six playing the way MW wants so why would he change anything to accommodate a different style of player? I don't think I understand your point? What way aren't Bonne and Kelman like them? They are all out and out strikers. All of those you mention are different; Dykes is a target man, Austin is a pocher and Grey is off the last shoulder. Bonne is a poacher and Kelman is off the shoulder. So by your theory, we only buy the finished product? I do agree that our 'youth' team is a bit of a myth. Only really Eze and Chair who were youth that broke through consistently. Niko was 23/24when he was getting his chance, Kakay also isn't that young , Dieng was 25. Actual youth products aren't great. Duke Mckenna looks like he could. Not sure how Bettache is getting on but he looked good. |
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Post by Tarbie on Nov 10, 2021 14:25:59 GMT
It's worth noting that Ebere Eze was with us a few years before realising his potential. He was given the chance. No reason why Kelman can't do the same. Can't believe he's being completely written off barely having kicked a ball for us. Ebere Eze was tearing it up on loan mate. Kelman couldn't force his way into a poor Gillingham side. Can't really compare the 2, can you? OK, Kelman has scored a good few goals for U23's, but so did Arimide Oteh. He was another one that always looked out of his depth in the 1st team. I'll take being called harsh or impatient on the chin. Kelman just doesn't look like a Championship level player to me, regardless of how much time you wanna give him. I'd be happy to be proven wrong on that though. |
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Post by gtleighsr3 on Nov 10, 2021 15:53:47 GMT
They wouldn’t play the yank messi , simply because he was From the posh side of the estuary. Bitter chav Kent cants
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Post by alanwycombe on Nov 10, 2021 15:54:59 GMT
I’m not questioning the talent (or not) of Kelman just asking why we bought him. If we are embracing the modern idea of getting all teams at the club to play the same way why did we buy him and Bonne? We’ve wasted two years of Kelman’s young career. Neither he nor Bonne is a Dykes/Austin/Gray type of front man. As for developing players where are they? Nine of our first team(s) are usually players we’ve brought to the club recently. If we haven’t got a Clement/Francis/Waddock/Goddard/Allen/Gallen banging on the first team door are we actually an attractive option for talent? Different club now to when we had Sterling, and Eze was an exception, not typical. I get that a new training and youth development strategy is in its infancy but that means we will be looking to bring in players for a while yet - so shouldn’t they be players to suit the way MW wants to play, not Bonnes and Kelmans? We’re top six playing the way MW wants so why would he change anything to accommodate a different style of player? I don't think I understand your point? What way aren't Bonne and Kelman like them? They are all out and out strikers. All of those you mention are different; Dykes is a target man, Austin is a pocher and Grey is off the last shoulder. Bonne is a poacher and Kelman is off the shoulder. So by your theory, we only buy the finished product? I do agree that our 'youth' team is a bit of a myth. Only really Eze and Chair who were youth that broke through consistently. Niko was 23/24when he was getting his chance, Kakay also isn't that young , Dieng was 25. Actual youth products aren't great. Duke Mckenna looks like he could. Not sure how Bettache is getting on but he looked good. Not saying only buy finished product, saying buy players Warburton will play or what’s the point buying them. Bonne never got a look in while Dykes was useless. |
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Post by Timmy Doc on Nov 10, 2021 16:05:28 GMT
Not good enough for Gillingham but apparently our future savior.
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Post by hal9thou on Nov 10, 2021 16:45:36 GMT
It's worth noting that Ebere Eze was with us a few years before realising his potential. He was given the chance. No reason why Kelman can't do the same. Can't believe he's being completely written off barely having kicked a ball for us. Ebere Eze was tearing it up on loan mate. Kelman couldn't force his way into a poor Gillingham side. Can't really compare the 2, can you? OK, Kelman has scored a good few goals for U23's, but so did Arimide Oteh. He was another one that always looked out of his depth in the 1st team. I'll take being called harsh or impatient on the chin. Kelman just doesn't look like a Championship level player to me, regardless of how much time you wanna give him. I'd be happy to be proven wrong on that though. +1 Also agree that the key to signing dem yout is knowing when to cut your losses. |
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Post by West Acton on Nov 10, 2021 17:08:12 GMT
Fans moan manager has no plan B. Club invest in players who could be plan B and fans moan it’s breaking with clubs plan
Who would own a club or be a manager 🤣😂 thankless task
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Post by gtleighsr3 on Nov 10, 2021 17:09:46 GMT
Who would go to gillingham
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Post by alanwycombe on Nov 10, 2021 17:52:45 GMT
Fans moan manager has no plan B. Club invest in players who could be plan B and fans moan it’s breaking with clubs plan Who would own a club or be a manager 🤣😂 thankless task By fans you mean me and that isn’t what I said. It isn’t a plan B if you don’t want to play a different style - and why would he when we are sitting in top six? You’re the one who tells me we should have one style throughout the club so players know their role when they come in. So no point bringing in players you don’t want. |
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Post by 1973ranger on Nov 10, 2021 18:11:32 GMT
Great news regarding Wallace huge loss going forward as we cannot replace his quality in the final third. Hopefully Charlie and Dykes reap the benefit of his return.
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Post by West Acton on Nov 10, 2021 20:08:43 GMT
Fans moan manager has no plan B. Club invest in players who could be plan B and fans moan it’s breaking with clubs plan Who would own a club or be a manager 🤣😂 thankless task By fans you mean me and that isn’t what I said. It isn’t a plan B if you don’t want to play a different style - and why would he when we are sitting in top six? You’re the one who tells me we should have one style throughout the club so players know their role when they come in. So no point bringing in players you don’t want. not totally true. Should have a philosophy throughout the club that makes perfect sense but that don’t mean you can’t have other options. Who would have a problem if Bonne was knocking them in for us week in week out (not including you in that question 😜) |
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Post by spongeparr on Nov 11, 2021 8:51:56 GMT
Ebere Eze was tearing it up on loan mate. Kelman couldn't force his way into a poor Gillingham side. Can't really compare the 2, can you? OK, Kelman has scored a good few goals for U23's, but so did Arimide Oteh. He was another one that always looked out of his depth in the 1st team. I'll take being called harsh or impatient on the chin. Kelman just doesn't look like a Championship level player to me, regardless of how much time you wanna give him. I'd be happy to be proven wrong on that though. +1 Also agree that the key to signing dem yout is knowing when to cut your losses. And that's now is it? A 20 year old on tiny wages who came with potential. I just don't understand the rush to get rid of a young striker who has played how many minutes? He couldn't get in a struggling Gillingham side, but that's probably because they need people wanting to scrap and I imagine be more route one. Obviously that isn't Kelman and he doesn't fit in. There's a different argument as to if he should have gone there in the first place. Trouble is, not that many teams in lower leagues play how we play. He may well end up being a lower league player, but we gain nothing by selling now. Won't get much/any money and there's more to gain by keeping than selling, at this stage. |
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Post by Shania on Nov 11, 2021 9:59:42 GMT
We should maybe start to send players abroad because to be honest we play a more continental style of football than most do in this division.
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Post by alanwycombe on Nov 11, 2021 10:00:33 GMT
+1 Also agree that the key to signing dem yout is knowing when to cut your losses. There's a different argument as to if he should have gone there in the first place. Trouble is, not that many teams in lower leagues play how we play. In a nutshell. |
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Post by Tarbie on Nov 11, 2021 10:01:37 GMT
+1 Also agree that the key to signing dem yout is knowing when to cut your losses. And that's now is it? A 20 year old on tiny wages who came with potential. I just don't understand the rush to get rid of a young striker who has played how many minutes? He couldn't get in a struggling Gillingham side, but that's probably because they need people wanting to scrap and I imagine be more route one. Obviously that isn't Kelman and he doesn't fit in. There's a different argument as to if he should have gone there in the first place.
Trouble is, not that many teams in lower leagues play how we play. He may well end up being a lower league player, but we gain nothing by selling now. Won't get much/any money and there's more to gain by keeping than selling, at this stage. It could be that mate, or it could be that he's not as good as you think he is. Hard to know for sure as he's only started 3 games and every other appearance has been 10 mins or so as a sub. I've got to say though, I've seen absolutely nothing in the 200 or so minutes he's played in our first team to suggest he's up to this level. It's also got to be said that a player in his situation should have been moving heaven and earth to impress on loan, which clearly he didn't. You can make as many excuses for that as you want, but the hard facts are you need to take advantage of opportunities in life and you need to have the will to succeed. Saying things like "Gillingham's style probably didn't suit him" is an easy get out for me. Fact is he went on loan to a side 30 odd positions below us in the football league and they sent him back early cos he wasn't doing enough. |
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