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Post by alanwycombe on Nov 11, 2021 10:02:32 GMT
We should maybe start to send players abroad because to be honest we play a more continental style of football than most do in this division. Interesting point. |
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Post by alanwycombe on Nov 11, 2021 10:05:40 GMT
And that's now is it? A 20 year old on tiny wages who came with potential. I just don't understand the rush to get rid of a young striker who has played how many minutes? He couldn't get in a struggling Gillingham side, but that's probably because they need people wanting to scrap and I imagine be more route one. Obviously that isn't Kelman and he doesn't fit in. There's a different argument as to if he should have gone there in the first place.
Trouble is, not that many teams in lower leagues play how we play. He may well end up being a lower league player, but we gain nothing by selling now. Won't get much/any money and there's more to gain by keeping than selling, at this stage. It could be that mate, or it could be that he's not as good as you think he is. Hard to know for sure as he's only started 3 games and every other appearance has been 10 mins or so as a sub. I've got to say though, I've seen absolutely nothing in the 200 or so minutes he's played in our first team to suggest he's up to this level. It's also got to be said that a player in his situation should have been moving heaven and earth to impress on loan, which clearly he didn't. You can make as many excuses for that as you want, but the hard facts are you need to take advantage of opportunities in life and you need to have the will to succeed. Saying things like "Gillingham's style probably didn't suit him" is an easy get out for me. Fact is he went on loan to a side 30 odd positions below us in the football league and they sent him back early cos he wasn't doing enough. Fair point Tarbs, I can’t imagine Bettache was too pleased about being shipped out to a shitshow like Oldham but he’s not been sent back. |
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Post by Tarbie on Nov 11, 2021 10:13:58 GMT
Bettache has apparently only started 5 league games at Oldham too mate.
This is the danger. We bring through a couple of players like Chair and Eze that clearly are good enough and the fans start looking at every youngster coming through like they are definitely gonna be good enough too. Unfortunately, for every Eze or Chair there are probably 20 that will find their level a few divisions lower down the leagues. I'm all for getting behind youngsters coming through, but there ain't any point kidding yourself if someone doesn't look like they are gonna cut it.
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Post by spongeparr on Nov 11, 2021 10:32:48 GMT
And that's now is it? A 20 year old on tiny wages who came with potential. I just don't understand the rush to get rid of a young striker who has played how many minutes? He couldn't get in a struggling Gillingham side, but that's probably because they need people wanting to scrap and I imagine be more route one. Obviously that isn't Kelman and he doesn't fit in. There's a different argument as to if he should have gone there in the first place.
Trouble is, not that many teams in lower leagues play how we play. He may well end up being a lower league player, but we gain nothing by selling now. Won't get much/any money and there's more to gain by keeping than selling, at this stage. It could be that mate, or it could be that he's not as good as you think he is. Hard to know for sure as he's only started 3 games and every other appearance has been 10 mins or so as a sub. I've got to say though, I've seen absolutely nothing in the 200 or so minutes he's played in our first team to suggest he's up to this level. It's also got to be said that a player in his situation should have been moving heaven and earth to impress on loan, which clearly he didn't. You can make as many excuses for that as you want, but the hard facts are you need to take advantage of opportunities in life and you need to have the will to succeed. Saying things like "Gillingham's style probably didn't suit him" is an easy get out for me. Fact is he went on loan to a side 30 odd positions below us in the football league and they sent him back early cos he wasn't doing enough. Tbh, that's my point. I don't know if Kelman is good or not. He hasn't had much of a chance and he's young. My is to write him of or to bin him off is premature and not needed. He could well be shit, but what are we losing by keeping him on? |
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Post by West Acton on Nov 11, 2021 12:47:18 GMT
It could be that mate, or it could be that he's not as good as you think he is. Hard to know for sure as he's only started 3 games and every other appearance has been 10 mins or so as a sub. I've got to say though, I've seen absolutely nothing in the 200 or so minutes he's played in our first team to suggest he's up to this level. It's also got to be said that a player in his situation should have been moving heaven and earth to impress on loan, which clearly he didn't. You can make as many excuses for that as you want, but the hard facts are you need to take advantage of opportunities in life and you need to have the will to succeed. Saying things like "Gillingham's style probably didn't suit him" is an easy get out for me. Fact is he went on loan to a side 30 odd positions below us in the football league and they sent him back early cos he wasn't doing enough. Fair point Tarbs, I can’t imagine Bettache was too pleased about being shipped out to a shitshow like Oldham but he’s not been sent back. you think he would be happier sat on bench getting 5mins here and there then playing regularly Oldham? If he would prefer sit bench I would seriously be questioning his desire and attitude Remember same argument being made last season about masterson who sat picking splinters our his arse and wasted season of development. So short sighted |
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Post by alanwycombe on Nov 11, 2021 16:19:51 GMT
Not convinced starting 5 of 15 for a club struggling to stay in league is right development for a young player. I’d love to know how they decide where to send them.
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Post by West Acton on Nov 11, 2021 17:04:06 GMT
Not convinced starting 5 of 15 for a club struggling to stay in league is right development for a young player. I’d love to know how they decide where to send them. but 120mins in whole season off bench is right development I’m not sure if your on wind up or not. |
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Post by Tarbie on Nov 11, 2021 17:11:02 GMT
If we are being brutally honest about it Westy, Betache is probably on loan at Oldham because there weren't too many other clubs that were interested. To me, he looks fairly tidy on the ball and probably is showing a bit more in 1st team football at this stage of his career than Kelman, but the fact he's not walking into Oldham's 1st eleven is a worry. As Alan mentioned, they're barely a Football League side. If Betache drops much further down the divisions he'll be playing you at 5-aside next week!
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Post by West Acton on Nov 12, 2021 8:33:48 GMT
I like look of him so me, you and Alan are on the same page. If only Oldham were interested then perhaps we have him In the same box as others of possibly inside thinking they are better then those outside the club view them
I do standby being out on loan getting actual competitive experience is better then sitting on bench or playing in front of 20people in non Competitive game at training ground
He’s a slight framed player who is technical so perhaps the plan is to send him somewhere he’s going play but also get bit roughed up in league as he’s getting smashed by 30year old CM struggling pay his Morgage as if he comes through that, picks himself up and keeps wanting ball knowing what’s coming then we get a toughened up battle ready player who is more ready to break into first team or at least compete next season, as if we’re honest he’s no more then bench meat currently as although promising he’s not ready. He don’t play ahead of Amos, Stefan, Field, Ball or Dozell
if we do think he has future with us why would we say sit on your arse fella? What favours is that doing him
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Post by James1979 on Nov 12, 2021 10:41:27 GMT
Bettache has apparently only started 5 league games at Oldham too mate. This is the danger. We bring through a couple of players like Chair and Eze that clearly are good enough and the fans start looking at every youngster coming through like they are definitely gonna be good enough too. Unfortunately, for every Eze or Chair there are probably 20 that will find their level a few divisions lower down the leagues. I'm all for getting behind youngsters coming through, but there ain't any point kidding yourself if someone doesn't look like they are gonna cut it. If he’s only started 5 league games, that probably means he’s not as good as we think he is. |
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Post by James1979 on Nov 12, 2021 10:44:58 GMT
I like look of him so me, you and Alan are on the same page. If only Oldham were interested then perhaps we have him In the same box as others of possibly inside thinking they are better then those outside the club view them I do standby being out on loan getting actual competitive experience is better then sitting on bench or playing in front of 20people in non Competitive game at training ground He’s a slight framed player who is technical so perhaps the plan is to send him somewhere he’s going play but also get bit roughed up in league as he’s getting smashed by 30year old CM struggling pay his Morgage as if he comes through that, picks himself up and keeps wanting ball knowing what’s coming then we get a toughened up battle ready player who is more ready to break into first team or at least compete next season, as if we’re honest he’s no more then bench meat currently as although promising he’s not ready. He don’t play ahead of Amos, Stefan, Field, Ball or Dozell if we do think he has future with us why would we say sit on your arse fella? What favours is that doing him It’s not a great sign if Oldham aren’t playing him. If he’s going to be a good championship player, he should be walking into this Oldham team and playing week in week out. The fact he’s not must mean that he’s not as good as we think he is. I’ve always thought he was decent but clearly something isn’t right if he couldn’t play regularly for us and now Oldham. He’s 21 not 18. And he’s played 20 first team games in professional football?! |
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Post by Tarbie on Nov 12, 2021 11:24:13 GMT
Bettache has apparently only started 5 league games at Oldham too mate. This is the danger. We bring through a couple of players like Chair and Eze that clearly are good enough and the fans start looking at every youngster coming through like they are definitely gonna be good enough too. Unfortunately, for every Eze or Chair there are probably 20 that will find their level a few divisions lower down the leagues. I'm all for getting behind youngsters coming through, but there ain't any point kidding yourself if someone doesn't look like they are gonna cut it. If he’s only started 5 league games, that probably means he’s not as good as we think he is. I think this could quite possibly be the case. I also think these kind of Deep Lying Playmakers will struggle in the English game. Tom Carroll is another one that looks alright on the ball but never seems to do well anywhere. I think if you are going to sit in the engine room, you need to be able to put it about a bit in the English game. Players that rely on their creative abilities and have next to no physical side to their game need to be comfortable playing further up the park in my opinion. |
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Post by alanwycombe on Nov 12, 2021 11:51:25 GMT
Bettache has apparently only started 5 league games at Oldham too mate. This is the danger. We bring through a couple of players like Chair and Eze that clearly are good enough and the fans start looking at every youngster coming through like they are definitely gonna be good enough too. Unfortunately, for every Eze or Chair there are probably 20 that will find their level a few divisions lower down the leagues. I'm all for getting behind youngsters coming through, but there ain't any point kidding yourself if someone doesn't look like they are gonna cut it. If he’s only started 5 league games, that probably means he’s not as good as we think he is. Or we’ve sent him to the wrong club? Which is my point really. |
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Post by Shania on Nov 12, 2021 11:51:54 GMT
Bettache has apparently only started 5 league games at Oldham too mate. This is the danger. We bring through a couple of players like Chair and Eze that clearly are good enough and the fans start looking at every youngster coming through like they are definitely gonna be good enough too. Unfortunately, for every Eze or Chair there are probably 20 that will find their level a few divisions lower down the leagues. I'm all for getting behind youngsters coming through, but there ain't any point kidding yourself if someone doesn't look like they are gonna cut it. We have to send our players abroad instead of some random picked lower league british clubs like Gillingham and Oldham. furthermore, there`s no need to glorify british football as the only way to educate young players physically. With a fotball man like Warburton in charge It baffles me that we still do it this way. Just my opinion. |
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Post by alanwycombe on Nov 12, 2021 11:59:08 GMT
Bettache has apparently only started 5 league games at Oldham too mate. This is the danger. We bring through a couple of players like Chair and Eze that clearly are good enough and the fans start looking at every youngster coming through like they are definitely gonna be good enough too. Unfortunately, for every Eze or Chair there are probably 20 that will find their level a few divisions lower down the leagues. I'm all for getting behind youngsters coming through, but there ain't any point kidding yourself if someone doesn't look like they are gonna cut it. We have to send our players abroad instead of random lower league british clubs like Gillingham and Oldham. furthermore, there no need to glorify british football as the only way to educate young players physically. With a fotball man like Warburton in charge It baffles me that we still do it this way. Just my opinion. You make a good point Shania. No point sending a player to a club where the manager/coach isn’t going to play you. Happened to us with Bonne. Bettache might not make the grade but I bet he’s not learning anything at Oldham. And are we learning anything about him? |
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Post by 1qprdk on Nov 12, 2021 12:26:30 GMT
Bettache has started 8 of 15 where he was eligible. 2 subs for most of second halves and 3 short cameos. 1 game benchmeat and 1 not in squad. That sounds ok IMHO.
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Post by gtleighsr3 on Nov 12, 2021 12:55:40 GMT
We should maybe start to send players abroad because to be honest we play a more continental style of football than most do in this division. We sent gk to Scotland,he never came back |
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