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Post by West Acton on Feb 12, 2024 16:10:46 GMT
with respect in the absence of the actual evidence I’m going stick to my guns for now 😁 Fair enough but my main point was the frequent conceding of possession it results in, which does remain a concern, with respect too  I would argue lumping it long has a higher percentage of losing possession then playing out short unless you have a proper quality target man who can hold the ball up. |
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Post by sparks on Feb 12, 2024 16:16:49 GMT
If Salter is the best CB in the division he would be stepping out and striding into MF in possession. The vast majority of Salters passes are short with him passing responsibility onto Cook to launch it.
Dunne makes more mistakes than Salter but won’t shirk responsibility onto others when a pass is on or stepping out with the ball.
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Post by alanwycombe on Feb 12, 2024 16:34:15 GMT
As far as I’m aware playing out from the Back has not resulted in any goals conceded so we’re not that bad at it. We had this problem when Warburton started it, people saying can’t do it but more we done better we got and the stress of watching it evaporated. Just a shame we decided to tear up the handbook under Ainsworth and change style totally going back to where we started. But we’re not good at it either. At least half the time it goes Begovic to Salter to Cook to Cannon who then launches it to Muscles. That’s not playing out from the back. Begovic may as well launch it in the first place. We also play it wide to Paal. It’s a minority of times that we work it up through the middle. Often when Field or Colback shows they knock it back to Cook and then Cannon launches it. We do a half and half version. If Marti is happy it’s progressing, fine. |
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Post by Stanley75 on Feb 12, 2024 16:44:47 GMT
Fair enough but my main point was the frequent conceding of possession it results in, which does remain a concern, with respect too I would argue lumping it long has a higher percentage of losing possession then playing out short unless you have a proper quality target man who can hold the ball up. I'd agree but I'd have to assume Marti is aware it's an issue. I'd argue you don't necessarily need to lump it long because you can also play through the middle (through the 1/3rds as they call it). Going long is fine too if it's accurate. For either approach to work you need players making runs and pulling their markers out of position. I don't think they've got it right yet and it's a work in progress. Re target man holding it up - Frey could fit that bill, and Armstrong is improving in that regard. |
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Post by West Acton on Feb 12, 2024 16:45:12 GMT
Cook to cannon tends to go long I’ve seen that but JCS Pall and Chair side plays out.
Perhaps that’s the strategy to mix it up 🤷🏽♂️
As Marty says if they launch it everytime everyone will moan and that’s a fact! Can’t do right for doing wrong.
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Post by Stanley75 on Feb 12, 2024 16:55:07 GMT
Cook to cannon tends to go long I’ve seen that but JCS Pall and Chair side plays out. Perhaps that’s the strategy to mix it up 🤷🏽♂️ As Marty says if they launch it everytime everyone will moan and that’s a fact! Can’t do right for doing wrong. Launching it isn't the only option. I elaborated on that above but we both posted at the same time  |
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Post by sparks on Feb 12, 2024 17:09:08 GMT
Cannon has been very underwhelming in comparison to Paal in getting into forward positions, I would suggest that it’s likely due to the unbalanced structure of playing 3 left sided MF players for most of the season
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Post by West Acton on Feb 12, 2024 17:20:43 GMT
Cannon has been very underwhelming in comparison to Paal in getting into forward positions, I would suggest that it’s likely due to the unbalanced structure of playing 3 left sided MF players for most of the season agree I think he’s bang average. |
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Feb 12, 2024 17:40:14 GMT
Improvement on Kakay and free.
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Post by Corbray on Feb 12, 2024 22:43:36 GMT
If Salter is the best CB in the division he would be stepping out and striding into MF in possession. The vast majority of Salters passes are short with him passing responsibility onto Cook to launch it. Dunne makes more mistakes than Salter but won’t shirk responsibility onto others when a pass is on or stepping out with the ball. JCS is there when it counts though and doesn't put a foot wrong game on game. him and cook are a very good pairing, far better than dunne and dickie were imo. |
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Post by sparks on Feb 13, 2024 8:38:13 GMT
If Salter is the best CB in the division he would be stepping out and striding into MF in possession. The vast majority of Salters passes are short with him passing responsibility onto Cook to launch it. Dunne makes more mistakes than Salter but won’t shirk responsibility onto others when a pass is on or stepping out with the ball. JCS is there when it counts though and doesn't put a foot wrong game on game. him and cook are a very good pairing, far better than dunne and dickie were imo. Players like Dieng, Dunne ,Dickie and Willock have all looked very good players during long periods of their 3 yr contracts but for a number of reasons have all gone backwards and fallen off a cliff form wise. It’s quite revealing that both Dickie and Dieng appear to be back to their best for their new clubs. I dont ever remember a QPR team containing 3 defensively minded midfield players,add to that the fact so many of the team are not kids and are over 30yrs old. I’m not on the hype train like some fans with the partnership of Cook and Salter because the team are still conceding bad goals. Where was Cook when Norwich number 9 and top scorer Sargent climbed all over Cannon on Saturday for their second goal, the same could be said about Salter and Cook for Blackburn’s goal being scored by their big number 9 Gallagher. |
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Post by Shania on Feb 13, 2024 8:54:55 GMT
They (Colback and others) can be better when it comes to switching from attack to defense, but it also has to be said that Norwich are top notch at going forward with intent and precision. Especially now when Sargent is back and close to his best. Another issue that has been discussed is that begovic more often should come out and dominate the box. I`m not sure sure how vocal he is really.
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Post by Stanley75 on Feb 13, 2024 10:30:04 GMT
I’m not on the hype train like some fans with the partnership of Cook and Salter because the team are still conceding bad goals. Where was Cook when Norwich number 9 and top scorer Sargent climbed all over Cannon on Saturday for their second goal, the same could be said about Salter and Cook for Blackburn’s goal being scored by their big number 9 Gallagher. Wouldn't disagree with that but who would you play at CB instead, Sparks? |
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Post by sparks on Feb 13, 2024 11:47:27 GMT
I’m not on the hype train like some fans with the partnership of Cook and Salter because the team are still conceding bad goals. Where was Cook when Norwich number 9 and top scorer Sargent climbed all over Cannon on Saturday for their second goal, the same could be said about Salter and Cook for Blackburn’s goal being scored by their big number 9 Gallagher. Wouldn't disagree with that but who would you play at CB instead, Sparks? I’m not currently in favour of change at CB, the fans hyped partnership of Cook and Salter is perhaps only 4 or 5 consecutive games in so still early days. I’ve never made any secret that I like a big aerially dominant player like Dunne both in defence and from attacking set plays. |
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Post by Corbray on Feb 13, 2024 11:54:22 GMT
Wouldn't disagree with that but who would you play at CB instead, Sparks? I’m not currently in favour of change at CB, the fans hyped partnership of Cook and Salter is perhaps only 4 or 5 consecutive games in so still early days. I’ve never made any secret that I like a big aerially dominant player like Dunne both in defence and from attacking set plays. i like dunne but we all know he has a mistake or two in him. he's a lower midtable championship player who plays decently well in a back 3 were his mistakes can be covered. assuming we stay up and want to move up the table then JCS is head and shoulders above dunne imo. i like cook but he's old. the partnership between JCS and cook is still a relatively new one so still needs time to properly develop. |
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Post by Stanley75 on Feb 13, 2024 12:11:41 GMT
Wouldn't disagree with that but who would you play at CB instead, Sparks? I’m not currently in favour of change at CB, the fans hyped partnership of Cook and Salter is perhaps only 4 or 5 consecutive games in so still early days. I’ve never made any secret that I like a big aerially dominant player like Dunne both in defence and from set plays. Indeed, I think we'd agree, despite their shortcomings, they're still our best pairing. (Personally, I disregard the hype and just rely on my eyes on matchday) FWIW, of our 8 clean sheets this season, this has been the CB pairings: 1. Cook Fox (Boro away) 2. Cook Fox (Brum away) 3. Cook Dunne (Bristol home) 4. Dunne Clarke-Salter (Preston away) 5. Cook Clarke-Salter (Hull home) 6. Cook Dunne (Plymouth home) 7. Cook Clarke-Salter (Ipswich away) 8. Cook Clarke-Salter (Millwall home) This comes with the obvious caveats (injury, suspension, dropped, inculpable players despite conceding etc) but it gives a rough perspective. |
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Post by sparks on Feb 13, 2024 12:30:42 GMT
If I were in charge of all the budget next season I would blow it all on Wigan’s CB Charlie Hughes, willing to bet he’s the latter day Duncan Edwards in that he could play anywhere on the pitch.
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Post by croydoncaptainjack on Feb 13, 2024 13:01:23 GMT
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Post by spongeparr on Feb 13, 2024 15:25:18 GMT
Cook JCS is by far the best pairing. By far.
Cook and JCS are both capable of playing out, roughing it with strikers.
Dunne will try to win a header that he has no hope of getting, leaving 20 yards behind him. He's not good enough for this level. There is more to being a defender than simply being good in the air.
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Post by Timmy Doc on Feb 13, 2024 16:05:45 GMT
I would rather play Cook-JCS than three Dunnes.
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Post by Timmy Doc on Feb 13, 2024 16:12:42 GMT
I’m not currently in favour of change at CB, the fans hyped partnership of Cook and Salter is perhaps only 4 or 5 consecutive games in so still early days. I’ve never made any secret that I like a big aerially dominant player like Dunne both in defence and from set plays. Indeed, I think we'd agree, despite their shortcomings, they're still our best pairing. (Personally, I disregard the hype and just rely on my eyes on matchday) FWIW, of our 8 clean sheets this season, this has been the CB pairings: 1. Cook Fox (Boro away) 2. Cook Fox (Brum away) 3. Cook Dunne (Bristol home) 4. Dunne Clarke-Salter (Preston away) 5. Cook Clarke-Salter (Hull home) 6. Cook Dunne (Plymouth home) 7. Cook Clarke-Salter (Ipswich away) 8. Cook Clarke-Salter (Millwall home) This comes with the obvious caveats (injury, suspension, dropped, inculpable players despite conceding etc) but it gives a rough perspective. Cook seems to be essential for us. Remember when some posters were against his signing. |
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Post by sparks on Feb 13, 2024 16:21:54 GMT
I would rather play Cook-JCS than three Dunnes. I can remember Jimmys fake reaction to the camera when Beale dropped him before Brizzle City away, he’s never kicked off when it’s happened under all the previous managers and managed to prove them wrong. |
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Post by sparks on Feb 13, 2024 17:44:22 GMT
Indeed, I think we'd agree, despite their shortcomings, they're still our best pairing. (Personally, I disregard the hype and just rely on my eyes on matchday) FWIW, of our 8 clean sheets this season, this has been the CB pairings: 1. Cook Fox (Boro away) 2. Cook Fox (Brum away) 3. Cook Dunne (Bristol home) 4. Dunne Clarke-Salter (Preston away) 5. Cook Clarke-Salter (Hull home) 6. Cook Dunne (Plymouth home) 7. Cook Clarke-Salter (Ipswich away) 8. Cook Clarke-Salter (Millwall home) This comes with the obvious caveats (injury, suspension, dropped, inculpable players despite conceding etc) but it gives a rough perspective. Cook seems to be essential for us. Remember when some posters were against his signing. I was one of those posters that stated that Ainsworth signings were a backwards step and I stand by it, next season it’s likely to see most of them off to the knackers yard. The recruitment next season needs to be smart to clean up the mess Ainsworth left behind because players hated playing for him. I’m guessing we wasted around £2.5m in transfer fees for Dieng and Dickie to bring in Ainsworth Dads Army. It will be interesting to tot up starts and appearances for all of dopey Ainsworth signings at the end of the season. |
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Post by jfrabbit on Feb 15, 2024 11:37:21 GMT
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Post by alanwycombe on Feb 15, 2024 15:45:53 GMT
Terrible marking, I could have put that away at my age.
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Post by Stanley75 on Feb 15, 2024 16:02:50 GMT
#Coaching101 - Any good coach does his homework on his opposite team's weakness and goes all out to exploit that. And it's clear this is our weakness (amongst others).
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Post by Stanley75 on Mar 30, 2024 9:32:30 GMT
JCS and Cook have formed a formidable partnership. Just need a dependable solid keeper behind them, and with our two excellent fullbacks we'd have an outstanding back 5.
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Post by 1973ranger on Mar 30, 2024 10:23:54 GMT
Centre pairing have been unreal and having Dunne at RB has helped defending set pieces.
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Post by West Acton on Apr 1, 2024 16:47:55 GMT
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Post by Corbray on Apr 1, 2024 16:50:05 GMT
mental stat that. imagine where we'll be next season if we can pick up a good striker?
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