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Post by sparks on Feb 17, 2023 16:02:04 GMT
But the same could be said about not wanting a new manager every season Stainrod.What is that makes a DOF impervious to be sacked in the same way as a manager? The only real strategy we have is to buy cheap and sell them on for profit, not too difficult for a manager to follow suit. Have you anyone else in mind as I really can’t see Warburton wanting to come back here. Well it might be a bit unfair on managers/ head coaches but they are the ones required to motivate the players and get results. Totally agree in the case of Les its a scandal that his performance never seems to be reviewed as he is rewarded for failure - eight years in his case is way too long. But the director of football lays out the strategy and you don't want that changing every two minutes. So there is a balance. A good director of football would provide more support to the head coach. Its not Les's fault we have FFP and owners who can't or won't spend more money, but is his responsibility ultimately that our youth structure is not bearing more fruit and that we are not picking up the kind of players we can develop and sell at a profit. A good DoF would also have the authority to stand up to the head coach and say "no, you can't have a crocked 34-year-old centre half - these are the young up and coming ones our analysts have identified, choose one of these." Who else can I suggest? I have suggested a couple of times on here we just go all out to headhunt whoever is the number two to the head of data analysis/ recruitment/ DoF at Brentford and follow their model properly this time! Slight play on different titles you are using here Stainrod, bringing in someone in with top data analysis skills is not classified as DOF,but ok. What happens if this Brentford guy signings flop you can’t say his position is set in stone and should not be removed same as any manager.Where would the continuity angle you are aiming for of not changing players to suit new managers. Look at the players that Wilder brought in at Boro,it seems they were decent players but they flopped for him but are plenty good enough for Carrick now, my point is it did not require a complete set of new players just a fresh face. Same could be said of Forest last season, Cooper came in with same set of players and turned their season around. |
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Post by West Acton on Feb 17, 2023 16:03:39 GMT
Don’t think Dozzell is on 13k
Really would not take some random guys made up website as fact.
Plenty to beat the club about currently but let’s keep it factual instead of made up stuff.
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Post by alanwycombe on Feb 17, 2023 16:06:20 GMT
Do t think Dozzell is on 13k Really would not take some random guys made up website as fact. Plenty to beat the club about currently but let’s keep it factual instead of made up stuff. I did find some of that stuff hard to believe. If true, it’s crazy. |
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Feb 17, 2023 16:43:41 GMT
Well it might be a bit unfair on managers/ head coaches but they are the ones required to motivate the players and get results. Totally agree in the case of Les its a scandal that his performance never seems to be reviewed as he is rewarded for failure - eight years in his case is way too long. But the director of football lays out the strategy and you don't want that changing every two minutes. So there is a balance. A good director of football would provide more support to the head coach. Its not Les's fault we have FFP and owners who can't or won't spend more money, but is his responsibility ultimately that our youth structure is not bearing more fruit and that we are not picking up the kind of players we can develop and sell at a profit. A good DoF would also have the authority to stand up to the head coach and say "no, you can't have a crocked 34-year-old centre half - these are the young up and coming ones our analysts have identified, choose one of these." Who else can I suggest? I have suggested a couple of times on here we just go all out to headhunt whoever is the number two to the head of data analysis/ recruitment/ DoF at Brentford and follow their model properly this time! Slight play on different titles here Stainrod, bringing in someone in with top data analysis skills is not classified as DOF but ok. What happens if this Brentford guy signings flop you can’t say his position is set in stone and should not be removed same as any manager.Where would the continuity angle you are aiming for of not changing players to suit new managers. Look at the players that Wilder brought in at Boro,it seems they were decent players but they flopped for him but are plenty good enough for Carrick now, my point is it did not require a complete set of new players just a fresh face. Same could be said of Forest last season, Cooper came in with same set of players and turned their season around. Didn't mean to get caught in semantics Sparks. Don't care if we call it "DoF", "Head of Recruitment", whatever. Point I've been trying to get across is whatever you call that person (as at Brentford) they are the ones who call the shots on recruitment, not the manager/ head coach. That provides continuity. Think you need a bit longer than the cycle of a manager (unless you are super successful manager like that tit at Brentford who I always want to punch whenever I see his mug!) to say if the DoF is working. For example, it takes some years to see if the youth strategy is working. As I said, not proposing this person is bullet proof or remains in position forever but there's no point sacking him every two minutes or he becomes as short-termist as the manager/ head coach (ie "lets sign lots of old codgers with no sell on value because I need a win on Saturday or I'm sacked"). |
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Post by Corbray on Feb 17, 2023 16:50:44 GMT
Slight play on different titles here Stainrod, bringing in someone in with top data analysis skills is not classified as DOF but ok. What happens if this Brentford guy signings flop you can’t say his position is set in stone and should not be removed same as any manager.Where would the continuity angle you are aiming for of not changing players to suit new managers. Look at the players that Wilder brought in at Boro,it seems they were decent players but they flopped for him but are plenty good enough for Carrick now, my point is it did not require a complete set of new players just a fresh face. Same could be said of Forest last season, Cooper came in with same set of players and turned their season around. Didn't mean to get caught in semantics Sparks. Don't care if we call it "DoF", "Head of Recruitment", whatever. Point I've been trying to get across is whatever you call that person (as at Brentford) they are the ones who call the shots on recruitment, not the manager/ head coach. That provides continuity. Think you need a bit longer than the cycle of a manager (unless you are super successful manager like that tit at Brentford who I always want to punch whenever I see his mug!) to say if the DoF is working. For example, it takes some years to see if the youth strategy is working. As I said, not proposing this person is bullet proof or remains in position forever but there's no point sacking him every two minutes or he becomes as short-termist as the manager/ head coach (ie "lets sign lots of old codgers with no sell on value because I need a win on Saturday or I'm sacked"). we've ALWAYS gone short term under les except for warbs first season in charge when we had one of the youngest first 11 in the championship. brentford maximised their players value by signing young, letting them have one breakout season and then selling them on for big bucks. mepham, benrahma, watkins, maupay. the list can go on and on. even when it came to managers brentford were forward thinking. thomas frank was dean smith's assistant for example despite being overqualified for it. why didn't we do the same by giving eustace the job for example. why aren't we following a similar model now? in a dream scenario we should hire a young, enthusiastic and ambitious coach as the assistant and allow them to develop here. have them work with the B team too to build a raport and understanding with all levels of the club. then when the time is right allow them to step up into the first team managers role. imo thats what SHOULD have happened with eustace who's birmingham side are only one point behind us and despite that are probably overperforming given the circumstances they're under. |
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Post by alanwycombe on Feb 17, 2023 16:53:58 GMT
It looked for ages that it would be Eustace. I wonder how seriously that was considered? And why it didn’t happen?
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Post by sparks on Feb 17, 2023 17:08:34 GMT
Stainrod,You originally said an elder statesman type like Warburton would be the type of DOF we should go for, now it’s Brentford’s recruitment analyst. Realistically if we do manage to stay up this season there wont be a big influx of new players brought in next season due to financial issues.
Do you really think Brentford’s number 2 analyst will come here and be expected to shop in Lidl skip for players?
If NC if found to be out of his depth next season then I would suggest a new manager is money better spent.
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Post by West Acton on Feb 17, 2023 17:26:36 GMT
It looked for ages that it would be Eustace. I wonder how seriously that was considered? And why it didn’t happen? like now there was witch hunt saying Eustace should follow Warburton and he was not good enough and part of the alleged problems under Warburton. Do wish our owners would grow back bone stop listening to fans as I think big part of our problem is they trying keep to many people happy and in trying to do so make no one happy not even themselves. |
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Post by Corbray on Feb 17, 2023 19:31:38 GMT
Stainrod,You originally said an elder statesman type like Warburton would be the type of DOF we should go for, now it’s Brentford’s recruitment analyst. Realistically if we do manage to stay up this season there wont be a big influx of new players brought in next season due to financial issues. Do you really think Brentford’s number 2 analyst will come here and be expected to shop in Lidl skip for players? If NC if found to be out of his depth next season then I would suggest a new manager is money better spent. i doubt that brentfords number 2 would come here but brentford recruited their DOF from norway. looking abroad or at home for a new DOF shouldn't be hard for any club. they just need to find smaller overachieving clubs with a DOF in place and go from there. someone who's done remarkably well in a short span of time. whether that be from league 1, 2. bundesliga, sweden idk it doesn't really matter as its the same process. |
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Feb 17, 2023 20:11:58 GMT
Stainrod,You originally said an elder statesman type like Warburton would be the type of DOF we should go for, now it’s Brentford’s recruitment analyst. Realistically if we do manage to stay up this season there wont be a big influx of new players brought in next season due to financial issues. Do you really think Brentford’s number 2 analyst will come here and be expected to shop in Lidl skip for players? If NC if found to be out of his depth next season then I would suggest a new manager is money better spent. Mentioned Warbs because he was Brentford’s DoF (or similar title) before he became their manager so he would presumably know the culture. Mentioning age prob a red herring on my part but stand by what I said about the role. Think Corbs has successfully expanded on the point. Realistically we could have Pepe or Jurgen here as manager and we are not getting promoted. It’s a complete re building job that’s required now which could take a decade to achieve. Think you need a strategist to oversee that - our board aren’t up to that |
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Post by sparks on Feb 17, 2023 20:28:49 GMT
I’m saying this as tongue in cheek as it’s only ifs and buts and opinions but Just to keep the debate going what type of leader are we looking for.
Is it a DOF or an analyst?
How will the owner be able to trust this person after what happened with Jorchibum and Beard pulling his pants down?
Who will be responsible for finding this person is it Belk or Ferdinand as there is a fair chance that they will be doing themselves out of a cushy job?
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