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Post by stainrodisalegend on Apr 4, 2023 15:49:10 GMT
Others are waking up. When will we? He should have been sacked a few seasons ago but focusing on Les now doesn't change anything this side of a transfer window, and even then there will need to be a fire sale. Much as I share the frustration with him our problems are much deeper. And sacking him now would only add to the sense of crisis. |
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Post by gtleighsr3 on Apr 4, 2023 15:50:00 GMT
Put les up front, register him,
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Post by Stanley75 on Apr 4, 2023 16:00:10 GMT
When Fernandes first hired Ferdinand eight years ago how much research do you think he honestly did in that recruitment process?
And how many other candidates do you think were interviewed / considered?
The answers to these questions will tell you all you need to know about the amateurish way in which our once great club has been run for the past 12 years.
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Post by James1979 on Apr 4, 2023 16:10:58 GMT
Others are waking up. When will we? When we get rid of Les, we’ll stick the data in our “computer” and this chap will come out. |
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Apr 4, 2023 16:11:23 GMT
When Fernandes first hired Ferdinand eight years ago how much research do you think he honestly did in that recruitment process? And how many other candidates do you think were interviewed / considered? The answers to these questions will tell you all you need to know about the amateurish way in which our club has been run for the last 12 years. Don't disagree with any of that Stanley, when you compare the clear strategy Brentford adopted and then hired real experts to execute with our clownish management - truly shocking. Don't think you will find a single fan who thinks it has worked out. But even if he were sacked tomorrow, would the board try to emulate the Brentford way? Or, god forbid, actually come up with the next big idea to run a football club rather than copying the decade old strategy of a near neighbour? I doubt it. And even if they did, where would that leave Ainsworth, who you can't really see as part of some decade long project? The club is diseased and Les is just a symptom of that. |
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Post by alanwycombe on Apr 4, 2023 16:49:17 GMT
Couldn’t care less if he goes now or in the summer, as long as he’s not here next season. He’s got nothing to do until the summer anyway😁
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Post by West Acton on Apr 4, 2023 17:45:06 GMT
Couldn’t care less if he goes now or in the summer, as long as he’s not here next season. He’s got nothing to do until the summer anyway😁 there’s an argument if you have an effective DOF this is the time of season when He’s doing his best work. Players out of contract to approach and form new squad now (even if your don’t announce) so you’re in front foot for pre season in July. If we’re waiting until summer do business, would not surprise me if that’s how we do it, then can see why we’re such a mess. |
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Post by Stanley75 on Apr 4, 2023 17:45:44 GMT
Well that's one way of putting it. But yes, diseased due to absent, disinterested, non-engaged, non-domicile owners - who, quite perversely, appear content to keep writing cheques each month just to keep the club afloat, as it all the while lurches from one calamity to the next, year upon year.... Basically. |
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Post by sparks on Apr 4, 2023 17:55:49 GMT
Couldn’t care less if he goes now or in the summer, as long as he’s not here next season. He’s got nothing to do until the summer anyway😁 there’s an argument if you have an effective DOF this is the time of season when He’s doing his best work. Players out of contract to approach and form new squad now (even if your don’t announce) so you’re in front foot for pre season in July. If we’re waiting until summer do business, would not surprise me if that’s how we do it, then can see why we’re such a mess. You make some valid points to sack him now but going on owners previous horrendous history of appointing key personnel are you confident that another duffer will be selected. Im of the opinion that only a quality manager is required and dispense with the extra expense of a DOF. |
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Post by alanwycombe on Apr 5, 2023 9:48:19 GMT
there’s an argument if you have an effective DOF this is the time of season when He’s doing his best work. Players out of contract to approach and form new squad now (even if your don’t announce) so you’re in front foot for pre season in July. If we’re waiting until summer do business, would not surprise me if that’s how we do it, then can see why we’re such a mess. You make some valid points to sack him now but going on owners previous horrendous history of appointing key personnel are you confident that another duffer will be selected. Im of the opinion that only a quality manager is required and dispense with the extra expense of a DOF. There is so much tosh spoken about DOFs. Point has been made that anyone decent coming in to SW6 is going to want to spend ANOTHER £300m to get his ‘own’ players - so much for the DOF putting the squad together. A style of play reflects the manager’s input and the players’ abilities - win games and it develops. You can’t impose it, lose games regularly but stick to it for the long term and you get nowhere. There is only one thing that you must have and that’s a winning mentality. Adapt, develop players etc., but play to strengths, win games and everything else falls in place. That’s a manager’s job. |
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Apr 5, 2023 10:01:28 GMT
You make some valid points to sack him now but going on owners previous horrendous history of appointing key personnel are you confident that another duffer will be selected. Im of the opinion that only a quality manager is required and dispense with the extra expense of a DOF. There is so much tosh spoken about DOFs. Point has been made that anyone decent coming in to SW6 is going to want to spend ANOTHER £300m to get his ‘own’ players - so much for the DOF putting the squad together. A style of play reflects the manager’s input and the players’ abilities - win games and it develops. You can’t impose it, lose games regularly but stick to it for the long term and you get nowhere. There is only one thing that you must have and that’s a winning mentality. Adapt, develop players etc., but play to strengths, win games and everything else falls in place. That’s a manager’s job. But that didn't work did it Alan? That was what Hughes and Redknapp did. Two big name managers who were very clearly "the boss". The result was it very nearly drove the club out of business and we have spent the next decade picking up the pieces. The whole point of a DoF system was to plan for the long term, like Brentford. But in reality we allowed Warbs to sign two aged semi-crippled full backs who he had worked with before and had been good back in the day. We allowed Beale to sign more old crocks like Balogoun because he also had worked with him. Not much sports science/ looking at the data/ sell on value/ building for the future there. The result? When we inevitably change the manager (three times and counting so far this season) you are left with loads of demotivated, crocked players on decent contracts who can be hard to shift. Once in a generation getting in an all-powerful manager works with a Warnock, but that's the exception. For me there was nothing wrong with the DoF strategy - the problem was a) the director of football was just a nice but dim ex player who didn't know anything about data analytics/ budgets/ business strategy etc b) and we never really stuck to the strategy. |
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Post by Stanley75 on Apr 5, 2023 10:06:19 GMT
You make some valid points to sack him now but going on owners previous horrendous history of appointing key personnel are you confident that another duffer will be selected. Im of the opinion that only a quality manager is required and dispense with the extra expense of a DOF. There is so much tosh spoken about DOFs. Point has been made that anyone decent coming in to SW6 is going to want to spend ANOTHER £300m to get his ‘own’ players - so much for the DOF putting the squad together. A style of play reflects the manager’s input and the players’ abilities - win games and it develops. You can’t impose it, lose games regularly but stick to it for the long term and you get nowhere. There is only one thing that you must have and that’s a winning mentality. Adapt, develop players etc., but play to strengths, win games and everything else falls in place. That’s a manager’s job. Agree Alan. Also the term "Director Of Football" - for a small club like QPR, what does that actually mean and how much of a misnomer is it? The manager's job (or head coach as he's now called) is to 'direct the football'. So how about just letting him get on with it and stop blurring the lines and muddying the waters by having someone above his head dictating to him? Unless of course it's someone who's actually qualified to do the job. For example Brentford's DoF Phil Giles who has a PhD in Mathematics and Statists. (What are Les' qualifications, remind me?) And ironically whose all time favourite player was yes, Les Ferdinand! #ataf |
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Post by alanwycombe on Apr 5, 2023 10:13:13 GMT
Contracts/affordability - what’s Hoos or FD for? Recruitment/scouting - what’s Belk for?
Developing players/style - what’s Ramsey/Hall/Furlong for?
Training/game plans - what’s Ainsworth for?
Face of club/ambassador - what’s Sinton for?
What’s the point of Les/DoF at a small club like ours?
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Apr 5, 2023 10:15:58 GMT
There is so much tosh spoken about DOFs. Point has been made that anyone decent coming in to SW6 is going to want to spend ANOTHER £300m to get his ‘own’ players - so much for the DOF putting the squad together. A style of play reflects the manager’s input and the players’ abilities - win games and it develops. You can’t impose it, lose games regularly but stick to it for the long term and you get nowhere. There is only one thing that you must have and that’s a winning mentality. Adapt, develop players etc., but play to strengths, win games and everything else falls in place. That’s a manager’s job. Agree Alan. Also the term "Director Of Football" - for a small club like QPR, what does that actually mean and how much of a misnomer is it? The manager's job (or head coach as he's now called) is to 'direct the football'. So how about just letting him get on with it and stop blurring the lines and muddying the waters by having someone above his head dictating to him? Unless of course it's someone who's actually qualified to do the job. For example Brentford's DoF Phil Giles who has a PhD in Mathematics and Statists. And ironically who's all time favourite player was yes, Les Ferdinand! #ataf "Unless of course it's someone who's actually qualified to do the job. For example Brentford's DoF Phil Giles who has a PhD in Mathematics and Statists." That's exactly the point Stanley, you are bang on, that is the kind of DoF we should have got. Have said on here several times, now Brentford are in the Prem, I bet that bloke has a deputy. Stop wasting money on a revolving door of managers and unless he is a complete Mong pay whatever it costs to get his number 2. If they wanted Les they could have given him the Sinton ambassador role or given him an honorific title like club president (his reputation is probably too tarnished now but would have been a decent shout back in the day). The problem was giving someone with no managerial or data expertise an executive position. That would not happen in any other industry. |
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Post by alanwycombe on Apr 5, 2023 10:16:03 GMT
There is so much tosh spoken about DOFs. Point has been made that anyone decent coming in to SW6 is going to want to spend ANOTHER £300m to get his ‘own’ players - so much for the DOF putting the squad together. A style of play reflects the manager’s input and the players’ abilities - win games and it develops. You can’t impose it, lose games regularly but stick to it for the long term and you get nowhere. There is only one thing that you must have and that’s a winning mentality. Adapt, develop players etc., but play to strengths, win games and everything else falls in place. That’s a manager’s job. But that didn't work did it Alan? That was what Hughes and Redknapp did. Two big name managers who were very clearly "the boss". The result was it very nearly drove the club out of business and we have spent the next decade picking up the pieces. The whole point of a DoF system was to plan for the long term, like Brentford. But in reality we allowed Warbs to sign two aged semi-crippled full backs who he had worked with before and had been good back in the day. We allowed Beale to sign more old crocks like Balogoun because he also had worked with him. Not much sports science/ looking at the data/ sell on value/ building for the future there. The result? When we inevitably change the manager (three times and counting so far this season) you are left with loads of demotivated, crocked players on decent contracts who can be hard to shift. Once in a generation getting in an all-powerful manager works with a Warnock, but that's the exception. For me there was nothing wrong with the DoF strategy - the problem was a) the director of football was just a nice but dim ex player who didn't know anything about data analytics/ budgets/ business strategy etc b) and we never really stuck to the strategy. You can’t plan for the long term if it isn’t working in the short term. |
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Apr 5, 2023 10:22:08 GMT
But that didn't work did it Alan? That was what Hughes and Redknapp did. Two big name managers who were very clearly "the boss". The result was it very nearly drove the club out of business and we have spent the next decade picking up the pieces. The whole point of a DoF system was to plan for the long term, like Brentford. But in reality we allowed Warbs to sign two aged semi-crippled full backs who he had worked with before and had been good back in the day. We allowed Beale to sign more old crocks like Balogoun because he also had worked with him. Not much sports science/ looking at the data/ sell on value/ building for the future there. The result? When we inevitably change the manager (three times and counting so far this season) you are left with loads of demotivated, crocked players on decent contracts who can be hard to shift. Once in a generation getting in an all-powerful manager works with a Warnock, but that's the exception. For me there was nothing wrong with the DoF strategy - the problem was a) the director of football was just a nice but dim ex player who didn't know anything about data analytics/ budgets/ business strategy etc b) and we never really stuck to the strategy. You can’t plan for the long term if it isn’t working in the short term. For sure, you are right, and that is the vicious circle the club has got itself in. But as I've argued above, the reason it has not worked in the short term is because we never set up the correct structure with the right DoF or followed thru on the strategy. We just paid lip service to it. And rather than admitting it wasn't working, we doubled down on it, compounding the problem. Warbs was clearly right, the youth set up wasn't working but we have wasted another couple of years developing 20 odd players who will probably end up at Stevenage or Cheltenham if they are lucky. So the club probably should have paid off the lot of them and focused on finding more Eze type players who have fallen through the cracks elsewhere, based on data science. |
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Post by Stanley75 on Apr 5, 2023 10:32:34 GMT
You can’t plan for the long term if it isn’t working in the short term. For sure, you are right, and that is the vicious circle the club has got itself in. But as I've argued above, the reason it has not worked in the short term is because we never set up the correct structure with the right DoF or followed thru on the strategy. We just paid lip service to it. And rather than admitting it wasn't working, we doubled down on it, compounding the problem. Warbs was clearly right, the youth set up wasn't working but we have wasted another couple of years developing 20 odd players who will probably end up at Stevenage or Cheltenham if they are lucky. So the club probably should have paid off the lot of them and focused on finding more Eze type players who have fallen through the cracks elsewhere, based on data science. What kind of an indictment is that on Chris Ramsey too, over the last nine years? |
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Post by West Acton on Apr 5, 2023 11:05:55 GMT
There is so much tosh spoken about DOFs. Point has been made that anyone decent coming in to SW6 is going to want to spend ANOTHER £300m to get his ‘own’ players - so much for the DOF putting the squad together. A style of play reflects the manager’s input and the players’ abilities - win games and it develops. You can’t impose it, lose games regularly but stick to it for the long term and you get nowhere. There is only one thing that you must have and that’s a winning mentality. Adapt, develop players etc., but play to strengths, win games and everything else falls in place. That’s a manager’s job. But that didn't work did it Alan? That was what Hughes and Redknapp did. Two big name managers who were very clearly "the boss". The result was it very nearly drove the club out of business and we have spent the next decade picking up the pieces. The whole point of a DoF system was to plan for the long term, like Brentford. But in reality we allowed Warbs to sign two aged semi-crippled full backs who he had worked with before and had been good back in the day. We allowed Beale to sign more old crocks like Balogoun because he also had worked with him. Not much sports science/ looking at the data/ sell on value/ building for the future there. The result? When we inevitably change the manager (three times and counting so far this season) you are left with loads of demotivated, crocked players on decent contracts who can be hard to shift. Once in a generation getting in an all-powerful manager works with a Warnock, but that's the exception. For me there was nothing wrong with the DoF strategy - the problem was a) the director of football was just a nice but dim ex player who didn't know anything about data analytics/ budgets/ business strategy etc b) and we never really stuck to the strategy. Alan however Is old fashioned and liked football as it was, I don’t mean that as a dig either different generations have different views. As you rightly say we tried that way it was a disaster and cost us 40mil In a fine but let’s try it some more. We’re on our fourth manager within 12months imagine how big the squad would be if each of them was able revamp the squad into their personal vision. Farcical If we were a stable club that kept managers 5+ years then perhaps you could give manager more responsibility but I’m Afraid we’re not we’re the opposite of a stable club. The closest we have been to stable I’m Afraid to say was Warburton when things were better albeit not perfect but he was deemed not good enough. The problem is not the DOF role the problem is the actual DOF. |
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Apr 5, 2023 11:30:10 GMT
For sure, you are right, and that is the vicious circle the club has got itself in. But as I've argued above, the reason it has not worked in the short term is because we never set up the correct structure with the right DoF or followed thru on the strategy. We just paid lip service to it. And rather than admitting it wasn't working, we doubled down on it, compounding the problem. Warbs was clearly right, the youth set up wasn't working but we have wasted another couple of years developing 20 odd players who will probably end up at Stevenage or Cheltenham if they are lucky. So the club probably should have paid off the lot of them and focused on finding more Eze type players who have fallen through the cracks elsewhere, based on data science. What kind of an indictment is that on Chris Ramsey too, over the last nine years? You have a point, tho I read somewhere (stand to be corrected) that only something like 1% of players in a football academy end up as pros. For the very big clubs its much easier as they get the pick of the talent, and although not many of them break through into their first teams, its a nice little earner for these already massively rich clubs to sell on rejects (Nick London calls it "the Chelsea puppy farm"). Personally I suspect we could have the world's best youth coach and you aren't going to turn out many Sterlings. And when you do they are poached (think Les said something like 7 or 8 had been taken from us in the last couple of years?). To me its less about going round saying "x person has done a crap job" - though they might have done - and more about the strategy and structure. Is it ever realistic for a club like us to develop a player from early youth to first team and then good enough to sell more than once a decade? If not - unless its cheap as chips and just done for community engagement - has the club done a cost/benefit analysis of shifting that resource into developing players from an older age who have fallen off the master's table (Bonner being a possible example)? I don't know if that would work either but this surely is the kind of thing a good DoF should be all over. |
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Post by gtleighsr3 on Apr 5, 2023 11:44:02 GMT
Eldest was at Southend 13 yes ago, coach said like 200 kids make it country wide a season
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Post by sparks on Apr 5, 2023 11:54:22 GMT
Those 2 examples Rednapp and Hughes are big name managers but have built nothing during their time with any club.
Only owners with more money than sense would have seen them as proven good managers.
Appointing Warnock was not rocket science as he got umpteen clubs promoted before he arrived here.
As said so many times it’s the owners incompetence not a crap DOF that’s got us to this point, from going from Warburton then to Beale and Critchley then onto Ainsworth is just plain stupid.
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Post by Stanley75 on Apr 5, 2023 12:17:34 GMT
What kind of an indictment is that on Chris Ramsey too, over the last nine years? You have a point, tho I read somewhere (stand to be corrected) that only something like 1% of players in a football academy end up as pros. For the very big clubs its much easier as they get the pick of the talent, and although not many of them break through into their first teams, its a nice little earner for these already massively rich clubs to sell on rejects (Nick London calls it "the Chelsea puppy farm"). Personally I suspect we could have the world's best youth coach and you aren't going to turn out many Sterlings. And when you do they are poached (think Les said something like 7 or 8 had been taken from us in the last couple of years?). To me its less about going round saying "x person has done a crap job" - though they might have done - and more about the strategy and structure. Is it ever realistic for a club like us to develop a player from early youth to first team and then good enough to sell more than once a decade? If not - unless its cheap as chips and just done for community engagement - has the club done a cost/benefit analysis of shifting that resource into developing players from an older age who have fallen off the master's table (Bonner being a possible example)? I don't know if that would work either but this surely is the kind of thing a good DoF should be all over. Well this certainly appears to be our long-term strategy with Heston and all the investment being put into that. The likes of James on here reckons it should be abandoned as it's like throwing good money after bad, and it's hard to see the arguments against that. For reasons you outline above too. It's not going to happen though because the club are clearly fully committed and invested in it. Brentford ditched their academy seven years ago however, in favour of developing Premier League outcasts Look how well that approach has served them in that time. From a former poor minnow in our shadow to completely overtaking us and thriving at the top table. |
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Post by Stanley75 on Apr 5, 2023 12:31:17 GMT
You have a point, tho I read somewhere (stand to be corrected) that only something like 1% of players in a football academy end up as pros. For the very big clubs its much easier as they get the pick of the talent, and although not many of them break through into their first teams, its a nice little earner for these already massively rich clubs to sell on rejects (Nick London calls it "the Chelsea puppy farm"). Personally I suspect we could have the world's best youth coach and you aren't going to turn out many Sterlings. And when you do they are poached (think Les said something like 7 or 8 had been taken from us in the last couple of years?). To me its less about going round saying "x person has done a crap job" - though they might have done - and more about the strategy and structure. Is it ever realistic for a club like us to develop a player from early youth to first team and then good enough to sell more than once a decade? If not - unless its cheap as chips and just done for community engagement - has the club done a cost/benefit analysis of shifting that resource into developing players from an older age who have fallen off the master's table (Bonner being a possible example)? I don't know if that would work either but this surely is the kind of thing a good DoF should be all over. Well this certainly appears to be our long-term strategy with Heston and all the investment being put into that. The likes of James on here reckons it should be abandoned as it's like throwing good money after bad, and it's hard to see the arguments against that. For reasons you outline above too. It's not going to happen though because the club are clearly fully committed and invested in it. Brentford ditched their academy seven years ago however, in favour of developing Premier League outcasts Look how well that approach has served them in that time. From a former poor minnow in our shadow to completely overtaking us and thriving at the top table. Quite sad too when you consider we used to regard Brentford "like lint or a bottle cap. Just a thing to remove": |
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Post by hal9thou on Apr 5, 2023 13:22:18 GMT
Listen, we've been going on for a long time about the pre-historic way the club is run on almost every level.
Tony Fernandes is simply unable to run a foorball club, just like he bled money in F1. The Mittal's aren't bothered.
We might as well all fuck off until the regime changes. Relegation means that will be a very long wait.
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Post by alanwycombe on Apr 7, 2023 16:18:17 GMT
Les, please do decent thing and resign so we can get it right in time for next season.
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Post by Rangers77 on Apr 7, 2023 16:22:23 GMT
Why the fuck can't R Block start an anti Les chant?
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Post by Timmy Doc on Apr 7, 2023 16:26:42 GMT
Relax. Can't see we are going to have a DOF in league one.
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Post by gtleighsr3 on Apr 7, 2023 16:27:47 GMT
If GA had any pride he resign tonight too.
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Post by Bill on Apr 7, 2023 16:39:06 GMT
Relax. Can't see we are going to have a DOF in league one. Relax,don't think we will have a club if we go down |
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Post by Bill on Apr 7, 2023 16:39:56 GMT
Just fuck off Ferdinand
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