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Post by acricketer on Nov 17, 2023 21:30:25 GMT
Qualifiers
England v Malta
Dross, dire,dreadful.
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Post by Ginger Ninja on Nov 17, 2023 21:54:53 GMT
Turned off at half time. I couldn't watch another 45mins of the ball being played across the back 4.
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Post by rodman on Nov 17, 2023 22:06:46 GMT
Best crop of players in my lifetime, totally wasted by Southgate.
Shit manager!
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Post by hubble on Nov 18, 2023 11:07:45 GMT
What's Southgate thinking, playing Henderson - who is past it - who won't feature on the Euros, in a match like this, a golden opportunity to blood new and younger players? At least Palmer got a run out. Everything was wrong about the team he put out; tactically and in terms of personnel. Makes you despiar, as Bill says, best crop of players in a lifetime, and he reduces it to this.
The arguments for and against Southgate will continue, but with such players as he has available, then anything but an actual trophy would be a failure. I think it's his defensive-mindedness that irritates me most. And his loyalty to players who are past it.
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Post by itsonlyagame on Nov 18, 2023 12:12:03 GMT
Get Eddie Howe in there.
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Post by hubble on Nov 18, 2023 12:58:14 GMT
He'd be good, but it would be a step down for him. I think that's part of the problem; you'll never attract the truly great managers to the role.
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Post by itsonlyagame on Nov 18, 2023 13:25:38 GMT
He'd be good, but it would be a step down for him. I think that's part of the problem; you'll never attract the truly great managers to the role.
Yeah, you could be right Hubs. On the other hand he’s English and the opportunity to manage the national team might just be enough of a lure. More likely in a few years though, once he’s had his fill of abuse from 20 stone shirtless meat heads suffering delusions of grandeur up at St James park. |
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Post by West Acton on Nov 19, 2023 8:11:46 GMT
He'd be good, but it would be a step down for him. I think that's part of the problem; you'll never attract the truly great managers to the role.
think only way you get top manager now is when they are towards end of managerial career and want to slow down. |
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Post by James1979 on Nov 19, 2023 8:44:26 GMT
I’m no fan of Southgate. I think given the squad we have and the draws,we should have made WC final in 2018, and won euros in 2020 and WC in 2022.
But this was a match with our best player missing and when we had already qualified. It was meaningless game. Should judge in the finals now.
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Post by Stanley75 on Nov 19, 2023 11:35:13 GMT
you'll never attract the truly great managers to the role.
Sad, as that never used to be the case. |
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oldr
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Post by oldr on Nov 20, 2023 9:51:34 GMT
you'll never attract the truly great managers to the role.
Sad, as that never used to be the case. If you look at the run of England managers post Winterbottom - who wasn't a real manager in the sense we now understand- how many were great managers? Ramsey Revie Greenwood Robson Taylor Keegan Hoddle Eriksson Capello Hodgson Allardyce Southgate Ramsey, Greenwood and Robson had successes with the latter 2 also overseeing European success for West Ham and Ipswich respectively only Ramsey had league success. However, at no point was there a consensus that they were 'great' at the time of their appointment or subsequently. Revie was incredibly successful and was definitely one of the greats of his era. Taylor and Keegan had never won a major trophy before becoming England manager. Hoddle had both domestic and European cuo successes as Chelsea manager but wasn't considered 'great' at the time of his appointment. Of the two foreign appointments Eriksson had won trophies but was he considered great or just successful? Capello can be considered a great manager of his era even if a lot of his successes were built on funding. All since we're never considered greats. So in 61 years and 12 managers only 2 were universally considered great at the time of their appointment. Off on a tangent but an important one. England have been participating in World Cups and European Championships since 1950 and 1968 respectively and during this time have never beaten a major side in a knock out match outside of Wembley regardless of how great we think the players at our disposal are. You're not automatically going to attract the best managers of your generation until that changes. |
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Post by acricketer on Nov 20, 2023 11:21:43 GMT
I thought Terry Venables was excellent!
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Post by Stanley75 on Nov 20, 2023 11:55:05 GMT
Sad, as that never used to be the case. If you look at the run of England managers post Winterbottom - who wasn't a real manager in the sense we now understand- how many were great managers? Ramsey Revie Greenwood Robson Taylor Keegan Hoddle Eriksson Capello Hodgson Allardyce Southgate Ramsey, Greenwood and Robson had successes with the latter 2 also overseeing European success for West Ham and Ipswich respectively only Ramsey had league success. However, at no point was there a consensus that they were 'great' at the time of their appointment or subsequently. Revie was incredibly successful and was definitely one of the greats of his era. Taylor and Keegan had never won a major trophy before becoming England manager. Hoddle had both domestic and European cuo successes as Chelsea manager but wasn't considered 'great' at the time of his appointment. Of the two foreign appointments Eriksson had won trophies but was he considered great or just successful? Capello can be considered a great manager of his era even if a lot of his successes were built on funding. All since we're never considered greats. So in 61 years and 12 managers only 2 were universally considered great at the time of their appointment. Off on a tangent but an important one. England have been participating in World Cups and European Championships since 1950 and 1968 respectively and during this time have never beaten a major side in a knock out match outside of Wembley regardless of how great we think the players at our disposal are. You're not automatically going to attract the best managers of your generation until that changes. You've left out Venables. He was pretty great, wasn't he? Otherwise, all good points OldR. Ramsey, Revie, Capello, Venables and Robson were the ones I had in mind above. But by the same token there've been other national sides who've appointed managers not considered 'great' at the time but then went on to achieve success with them. |
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Post by Shania on Nov 20, 2023 12:31:34 GMT
Taking England to the very top, could be a job for Klopp, couldn`t it?
Edit: That will be a very controversial appointment given his nationality, I guess.
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oldr
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Post by oldr on Nov 20, 2023 13:06:27 GMT
If you look at the run of England managers post Winterbottom - who wasn't a real manager in the sense we now understand- how many were great managers? Ramsey Revie Greenwood Robson Taylor Keegan Hoddle Eriksson Capello Hodgson Allardyce Southgate Ramsey, Greenwood and Robson had successes with the latter 2 also overseeing European success for West Ham and Ipswich respectively only Ramsey had league success. However, at no point was there a consensus that they were 'great' at the time of their appointment or subsequently. Revie was incredibly successful and was definitely one of the greats of his era. Taylor and Keegan had never won a major trophy before becoming England manager. Hoddle had both domestic and European cuo successes as Chelsea manager but wasn't considered 'great' at the time of his appointment. Of the two foreign appointments Eriksson had won trophies but was he considered great or just successful? Capello can be considered a great manager of his era even if a lot of his successes were built on funding. All since we're never considered greats. So in 61 years and 12 managers only 2 were universally considered great at the time of their appointment. Off on a tangent but an important one. England have been participating in World Cups and European Championships since 1950 and 1968 respectively and during this time have never beaten a major side in a knock out match outside of Wembley regardless of how great we think the players at our disposal are. You're not automatically going to attract the best managers of your generation until that changes. You've left out Venables. He was pretty great, wasn't he? Otherwise, all good points OldR. Ramsey, Revie, Capello, Venables and Robson were the ones I had in mind above. But by the same token there've been other national sides who've appointed managers not considered 'great' at the time but then went on to achieve success with them. Ah yes, El Tel! Definitely my favourite but not great I would argue. |
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oldr
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Post by oldr on Nov 20, 2023 13:08:52 GMT
Taking England to the very top, could be a job for Klopp, couldn`t it? Edit: That will be a very controversial appointment given his nationality, I guess. A German managing England? Not for me. I definitely belive the England manager should be English but if we are going down the 'other' route is absolutely can't be a Scot or German. |
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Post by Shania on Nov 20, 2023 16:29:22 GMT
Taking England to the very top, could be a job for Klopp, couldn`t it? Edit: That will be a very controversial appointment given his nationality, I guess. Not for me. I definitely belive the England manager should be English but if we are going down the 'other' route is absolutely can't be a Scot or German. That`s why I edited it. No problem. |
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Nov 20, 2023 17:55:34 GMT
You've left out Venables. He was pretty great, wasn't he? Otherwise, all good points OldR. Ramsey, Revie, Capello, Venables and Robson were the ones I had in mind above. But by the same token there've been other national sides who've appointed managers not considered 'great' at the time but then went on to achieve success with them. Ah yes, El Tel! Definitely my favourite but not great I would argue. You have a very strict idea of great. We saw at QPR that he was light years ahead of the competition tactically. He then managed Barcelona and Tottenham. I take your point that the likes of Sam Allardyce in particular and Kevin Keegan (great player, clueless manager, a kind of rich man's Gareth Ainsworth when it came to tactics) devalued the job to some degree. Graham Taylor too. But would argue that the like of Venners, Robson and Capello were up there as first class managers. |
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Nov 20, 2023 17:58:45 GMT
Taking England to the very top, could be a job for Klopp, couldn`t it? Edit: That will be a very controversial appointment given his nationality, I guess. I would love Klopp. Sven and Capello were quite dour characters but if a country employs a foreign manager in particular they need a bit of passion to convey to the players that even tho he is a different nationality he really wants the team to win. |
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oldr
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Post by oldr on Nov 20, 2023 18:02:29 GMT
Ah yes, El Tel! Definitely my favourite but not great I would argue. You have a very strict idea of great. We saw at QPR that he was light years ahead of the competition tactically. He then managed Barcelona and Tottenham. I take your point that the likes of Sam Allardyce in particular and Kevin Keegan (great player, clueless manager, a kind of rich man's Gareth Ainsworth when it came to tactics) devalued the job to some degree. Graham Taylor too. But would argue that the like of Venners, Robson and Capello were up there as first class managers. Venables was definitely one of the most innovative coaches in ours and English football history, but great manager? I wouldn't say he was and the one opportunity he had of winning the European Cup - in 1986 - was lost because of his limitations in my opinion. A great man manager definitely but never achieved greatness anywhere and, I would argue, that our 5th place finish in 84 - when we could still win the title going into Easter - was as good as it got for him. |
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Post by Corbray on Nov 20, 2023 18:54:30 GMT
99% of the time the england manager should always be english.
that being said i would happily take 'honourary' englishmen like klopp who's been the liverpool manager for 8 years now.
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Post by acricketer on Nov 20, 2023 20:30:28 GMT
North Macedonia v. England
Dross, dire,dreadful.
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Post by Shania on Nov 20, 2023 20:40:56 GMT
Taking England to the very top, could be a job for Klopp, couldn`t it? Edit: That will be a very controversial appointment given his nationality, I guess. I would love Klopp. Sven and Capello were quite dour characters but if a country employs a foreign manager in particular they need a bit of passion to convey to the players that even tho he is a different nationality he really wants the team to win. I would guess most players would be ok with Klopp at the helm, but I see your point.  |
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Post by alanwycombe on Nov 20, 2023 20:47:22 GMT
Imagine if it was the whole of Macedonia? 😁
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Post by Bill on Nov 20, 2023 21:00:56 GMT
Ref is a joke.
Southgate is even worse,total knob.
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Post by Bill on Nov 20, 2023 21:05:44 GMT
Never win anything with Southgate so negative.
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72bus
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Post by 72bus on Nov 20, 2023 22:10:13 GMT
That tool Joe Cole talking after, he watched a different game than me .
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