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Post by BrightonR on Jun 8, 2019 1:31:55 GMT
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Post by esoxlucius on Jun 8, 2019 6:12:10 GMT
It's sad that the conditions exist that this should become mandatory. I am proud that QPR are the leaders in hiring the right people to do the job irrespective of colour and it is fitting that this should come in at the same time as Chris Ramsey is honoured. Overt racism has almost completely disappeared from football but casual racism is still rife and this regulation will go some way to redressing the balance.
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Post by pommyhoop on Jun 8, 2019 6:43:30 GMT
I thought the Rooney Rule was that he had to be picked for England whether or what... Learn something new every day.
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Post by Rangers77 on Jun 8, 2019 10:09:44 GMT
Usual bullshit from these people.
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Post by Rangers77 on Jun 8, 2019 10:14:53 GMT
So, say, when Man U tap someone up to be their manager before they've sacked the incumbent when should they interview the back candidate they're not going to ever appoint? Such pointless bullshit. Sowing discord and division.
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Post by Hitman34 on Jun 8, 2019 13:45:49 GMT
bet aof les has a boner right now.
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Post by esoxlucius on Jun 8, 2019 13:46:01 GMT
Usual bullshit from these people. Bullshit? Ask yourself why, with the huge amount of BAME players plying their trade in the Premieship and EFL so many feel it is not worth doing their coaching badges because they know most of them will never be offered a job. The Rooney rule is long overdue and hopefully a few clubs will use this as the kick up the arse that football needs to sort it's house out in this area.
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Post by BrightonR on Jun 8, 2019 14:40:52 GMT
Usual bullshit from these people. Bullshit? Ask yourself why, with the huge amount of BAME players plying their trade in the Premieship and EFL so many feel it is not worth doing their coaching badges because they know most of them will never be offered a job. The Rooney rule is long overdue and hopefully a few clubs will use this as the kick up the arse that football needs to sort it's house out in this area. That’s a view I suppose. But why would you not employ a black coach? Rangers have loads. But surely, as in any walk of life, jobs should be given to who is judged to be the best person. The quicker we move away from even discussing a persons colour, the better, in my opinion. What next? What are we going to do when after the first 50 appointments, they were all seen to be given to white men? Stop white blokes applying for jobs until we have a token number of BAME in posts? In fact, I’d go as far as to say that even the term BAME is unhelpful.
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Post by hal9thou on Jun 8, 2019 16:36:40 GMT
Of course its bullshit. A good, honest old fashioned attempt at social engineering, seen it before. It wont work because culture doesn't come from authorities. It comes from the streets. It takes time to percolate.
All they're doing is ticking incusivity boxes, its just a symbol, it means nothing. Arguably it actually reinforces the stereotyping they're so keen to do away with.
If you're in the operating theatre you want the best person probing away. You wouldn't want to think that the specialist been appointed for any reason other than excellence.
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Post by esoxlucius on Jun 8, 2019 17:52:11 GMT
Bullshit? Ask yourself why, with the huge amount of BAME players plying their trade in the Premieship and EFL so many feel it is not worth doing their coaching badges because they know most of them will never be offered a job. The Rooney rule is long overdue and hopefully a few clubs will use this as the kick up the arse that football needs to sort it's house out in this area. That’s a view I suppose. But why would you not employ a black coach? Rangers have loads. But surely, as in any walk of life, jobs should be given to who is judged to be the best person. The quicker we move away from even discussing a persons colour, the better, in my opinion. What next? What are we going to do when after the first 50 appointments, they were all seen to be given to white men? Stop white blokes applying for jobs until we have a token number of BAME in posts? In fact, I’d go as far as to say that even the term BAME is unhelpful. Not just a view, a fact. Some of the comments in this thread display casual racism by refusing to accept that there is an issue. You won't need token appointments if you give ALL the applicants a fair crack of the whip. If black people saw that there were opportunities to extend their football careers in coaching then a lot more would do their badges but currently, it is just QPR who are head and shoulders above other clubs in this area and the MBE awarded to Chris Ramsey only proves my point that when given a fair crack at a job, black people can excel just as much as white people. There are still too many troglodytes of the kind that booed Paul Canonville just for being black, even though he was playing for the club those fans claimed to support. You still see the overt racism in eastern European countries, Italy and a few others but over here the racists are far too clued up for overt racism and use dismissive language towards initiatives like this to get their message across. Even your own comment of "It’ll be fat or bald people next." is dismissive of what the EFL is trying to do. I am not even convinced that a lot of the vitriol directed at Ferdinand isn't because of his colour and the number of black coaches he has brought to the club.
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Vespa
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Post by Vespa on Jun 8, 2019 18:19:04 GMT
If a black man does his coaching badges he will get them ,if he is good enough ,exactly the same as a white man . Opportunities are there for all , people should go for it and then see how they get on . Not get a buy in ,for an interview just because of the colour of their skin .
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Vespa
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Post by Vespa on Jun 8, 2019 18:25:55 GMT
Vast majority of doctors in my area are Asian , i reckon a black man should be interviewed for every doctor job vacancy , whether they are qualified or not . Come on its only fair .
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Post by esoxlucius on Jun 8, 2019 18:33:01 GMT
Vast majority of doctors in my area are Asian , i reckon a black man should be interviewed for every doctor job vacancy , whether they are qualified or not . Come on its only fair . You missed out "Some of my best friends are black"
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Post by BrightonR on Jun 8, 2019 18:39:17 GMT
Vast majority of doctors in my area are Asian , i reckon a black man should be interviewed for every doctor job vacancy , whether they are qualified or not . Come on its only fair . You missed out "Some of my best friends are black" I could be wrong, but I think his wife is. You are sounding like one of those “do-gooders”, desperate to be offended on behalf of someone else. I have no doubt you mean well, but that sort of discrimination will never be the answer IMO.
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Vespa
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Post by Vespa on Jun 8, 2019 19:11:20 GMT
Vast majority of doctors in my area are Asian , i reckon a black man should be interviewed for every doctor job vacancy , whether they are qualified or not . Come on its only fair . You missed out "Some of my best friends are black" have to admit ,when i interview people to be my friends , i always make sure one in four of them are black even if they are complete cunts.
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Post by Rangers77 on Jun 8, 2019 19:29:54 GMT
Usual bullshit from these people. Bullshit? Ask yourself why, with the huge amount of BAME players plying their trade in the Premieship and EFL so many feel it is not worth doing their coaching badges because they know most of them will never be offered a job. The Rooney rule is long overdue and hopefully a few clubs will use this as the kick up the arse that football needs to sort it's house out in this area. Yep. Bullshit. So many racists in the game picking black players but not black managers......
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Post by West Acton on Jun 9, 2019 8:46:28 GMT
Tried to stay out of this one but reading some posts thought I would dive in.
I don’t see the harm in it personally as it won’t change anything the same old tired, washed up mangers like Pulis, Big Sam and Mick McCarthys will continue to get the jobs regardless of this at the top end of the game
Unless these people blow everyone else out the water, highly unlikely, there not getting the job so it’s what an extra hours interview for a club so not the biggest task. What it does do is expose the person to something and the environment which they probably would not have been invited or exposed too so they perhaps give better representation of themselves for a role they do have genuine chance of getting, whether that be manager or coaching etc
Let’s not kid ourselves managers jobs, on the whole, are not offered based on an interview hence why BAME applicants are not in the running. Most clubs know who they want,in advance and approach the person they want. The interview process is a tick box
And I ask the question and look forward to others views, but are we not already using the Rooney rule and have been for years for white applicants??! and as an example why was Bircham interviewed for our role??? He was never going to get the role it was a token gesture so what’s the difference???
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Joe90
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Post by Joe90 on Jun 9, 2019 9:34:57 GMT
I see no issue with this. Nobody is going to miss out on an opportunity if anything its going to hopefully encourage more people to apply meaning more chance of finding a better manager. It's a win win situation.
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Vespa
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Post by Vespa on Jun 9, 2019 11:15:36 GMT
I see no issue with this. Nobody is going to miss out on an opportunity if anything its going to hopefully encourage more people to apply meaning more chance of finding a better manager. It's a win win situation. it's not mate ,it's just a box ticking exercise
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Post by West Acton on Jun 9, 2019 11:40:01 GMT
So if we all know it’s a token gesture (think we’re all agreed on that) why get upset about it where is the harm
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Post by West Acton on Jun 9, 2019 12:05:02 GMT
But we done same thing with Bircham. Difference OldR???
I don’t think we would ever go to forced employment of black or other managers and it’s something I would be 100% against. Best person for the job in my book but interviewing a black person, when as I have evidenced, we already doing the same for white applicants is it really such a big deal
I think what people will need to get head round in next say ten years, with increasing popularity of female game, is female managers who have done well demanding opportunities in the male game
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Post by BrightonR on Jun 9, 2019 12:21:41 GMT
But we done same thing with Bircham. Difference OldR??? I did say we’d be doing it for fat people next. 😂 In all seriousness though, whilst you make a good argument, particularly allowing people to get experience of which they may ordinarily miss out on, I just think it’s a bit patronising. How would you (and other applicants, come to that) feel going for an interview, suspecting that you were there for one reason alone. I may well be wrong here, but personally I’d feel more insulted than anything else. And what about a good black applicant going for a job they are perfectly well qualified to do, where others of a dubious nature, fail to give them the credit they deserve for getting that far? I have to say, whatever opinions people hold on it, I’m very happy to see that those against it, are so for reasons of good intent and not bigotry or hatred. 👍
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Post by West Acton on Jun 9, 2019 12:57:02 GMT
Afraid I don’t agree OldR it’s token interview without merit same as your argument for black managers. Why interview legend (black or white) if you know they have no chance. The principle is the same in my book
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Post by West Acton on Jun 9, 2019 13:05:10 GMT
But we done same thing with Bircham. Difference OldR??? I did say we’d be doing it for fat people next. 😂 In all seriousness though, whilst you make a good argument, particularly allowing people to get experience of which they may ordinarily miss out on, I just think it’s a bit patronising. How would you (and other applicants, come to that) feel going for an interview, suspecting that you were there for one reason alone. I may well be wrong here, but personally I’d feel more insulted than anything else. And what about a good black applicant going for a job they are perfectly well qualified to do, where others of a dubious nature, fail to give them the credit they deserve for getting that far? I have to say, whatever opinions people hold on it, I’m very happy to see that those against it, are so for reasons of good intent and not bigotry or hatred. 👍 But it’s not for you to feel offended or patronised on their behalf. If that’s how individuals feel then they won’t apply but counter argument would be what about that person who genuinely thinks they have what it takes but know they won’t break in because of the closed shop jobs for the boys network. They might have had enough of being ignored and just want a chance to say listen to my ideas. Worst case scenario they raise few eye brows that would not have been able to previously, raise their profile and perhaps put themselves in better position for future opportunities I do get the concerns and reservations people have but it’s really not a big deal. The person who gets the job will not necessarily be the best person (Black, White, Indian etc) it will undoubtably be the person club wanted in first place regardless how they performed
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Post by BrightonR on Jun 9, 2019 15:19:12 GMT
Whilst you’ve not changed my mind Wests, there’s certainly plenty of food for thought in what you say.
Maybe I’m being naive. As someone who wouldn’t give skin colour any thought at all, I guess it’s sometimes difficult to appreciate the amount of people from all walks of life, that would.
The position of a football manager is a weird one though. Appointments are generally made on a combination of a pre-ordained shortlist, availability and whether or not they’d even be interested. And then they proceed to employ someone who they’ll inevitably sack in a year or two. 😂
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Post by West Acton on Jun 9, 2019 17:18:30 GMT
There are Other things in footie which need sorting and need attention but guessing this is quick win and makes EFL look good or proactive but it’s not that big a deal.
I really don’t think it will make a difference for any applicant as I would bet my house every club knows who they want and who is getting job before an interview is held and that won’t change because of process
Bigger question for me is how the hell do EFL enforce it as if a black or ethnic person don’t want to apply how can they be interviewed for job, do you walk outside tug closet person and say oi your getting interviewed 😂
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Post by West Acton on Jun 9, 2019 17:54:12 GMT
That’s my concern OldR what’s point forcing people if there genuine fair play but how can they say every job needs have BAME person interviewed if no one is interested
Taking discussion stage further and this applies to people from all walks of life clubs don’t interview for coaching staff either it’s all direct selection
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Post by BrightonR on Jun 9, 2019 18:00:41 GMT
It appears that there’s a similar thing going on with the Conservatives at the moment. At least one applicant must have not admitted to doing drugs. 😂
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Vespa
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Post by Vespa on Jun 9, 2019 18:10:15 GMT
one thing no one has has mentioned is how many black fellas have gained their coaching badges ,and then been ignored for starts in jobs .....i genuinely don`t know , i`d be gutted to think that good qualified black coaches are being ignored.......
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Post by West Acton on Jun 9, 2019 18:16:39 GMT
It appears that there’s a similar thing going on with the Conservatives at the moment. At least one applicant must have not admitted to doing drugs. 😂 did you see Boris excuse today. He must think we’re stupid
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