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Post by Stanley75 on May 27, 2023 12:01:53 GMT
Agree about Les but was just making the point that what Luton has achieved is truly exceptional. What about Luton + Millwall and Coventry this season too? And how do you think all three clubs' budgets have compared to QPR's? And how about Palace, Brighton, Brentford, Fulham, Bournemouth budgets when they were in the Championship (who had 'chute payments, as did QPR)? Is it really THAT "truly exceptional" or do they just have competent people running those clubs? |
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Post by Corbray on May 27, 2023 12:11:37 GMT
thats why i don't buy into the whole "FFP restricts us  ". yes, it restricts us from signing haaland, messi and bellingham but it restricts everyone else too. multiple clubs in poorer financial state than ours have been able to not only compete but find success too. i hate luton but credit to them for their success. |
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Post by West Acton on May 27, 2023 13:34:19 GMT
Agree about Les but was just making the point that what Luton has achieved is truly exceptional. What about Luton + Millwall and Coventry this season too? And how do you think all three clubs' budgets have compared to QPR's? And how about Palace, Brighton, Brentford, Fulham, Bournemouth budgets when they were in the Championship (who had 'chute payments, as did QPR)? Is it really THAT "truly exceptional" or do they just have competent people running those clubs? cant have Fulham or palace on list both massively breached FFP going up Bournemouth twice. |
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Post by Stanley75 on May 27, 2023 13:58:43 GMT
What about Luton + Millwall and Coventry this season too? And how do you think all three clubs' budgets have compared to QPR's? And how about Palace, Brighton, Brentford, Fulham, Bournemouth budgets when they were in the Championship (who had 'chute payments, as did QPR)? Is it really THAT "truly exceptional" or do they just have competent people running those clubs? cant have Fulham or palace on list both massively breached FFP going up Bournemouth twice. Fair enough. But that still leaves Millwall, Luton, Coventry (this season) and Brighton and Brentford (previous seasons), so it doesn't negate the overall point. There's probably other examples too. |
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Post by gtleighsr3 on May 27, 2023 14:03:39 GMT
Think clubs mentioned had decent squads and decent chance at top 6, so they gamble and throw the money needed at it to nigh on ensure it.
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Post by Stanley75 on May 27, 2023 14:27:31 GMT
Think clubs mentioned had decent squads and decent chance at top 6, so they gamble and throw the money needed at it to nigh on ensure it. Again, why is that? Cos they're better run. Don't forget, like them, we gambled too but fucked it up. Plus we too were top 6 by xmas for two seasons running, so again were in similar boats. |
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Post by gtleighsr3 on May 27, 2023 15:04:18 GMT
Last season we needed a proven gs, if they had gambled I genuinely think we may of got up. Instead they pissed about and Bournemouth spent want they needed to get up instead.
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Post by hal9thou on May 27, 2023 15:45:50 GMT
But relatively few with as wealthy owners...... there are simply no excuses for the utter prolapse of a club we've become. If Les had been at any other club in the top two tiers he'd have been gone years ago. Agree about Les but was just making the point that what Luton has achieved is truly exceptional. Plenty of clubs bigger than us have done even worse. We have just stagnated really - probably about where we were prior to MW’s arrival, arguably a bit more fucked due to the FFP threat. Re rich owners there are several in the Champ - not sure ours are THAT wealthy as don’t count the Mittel money as not relevant. Plus with FFP we couldn’t even spend it even if the owners wanted to. You can include the Mittal stake proportionately though. Sorry to have to keep pointing this out but plenty of richer clubs have found ways of circumventing sanctions, and plenty of poorer ones have been more successful with their recruitment. Either way they've fucked it up. |
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Post by stainrodisalegend on May 28, 2023 8:18:24 GMT
Agree about Les but was just making the point that what Luton has achieved is truly exceptional. What about Luton + Millwall and Coventry this season too? And how do you think all three clubs' budgets have compared to QPR's? And how about Palace, Brighton, Brentford, Fulham, Bournemouth budgets when they were in the Championship (who had 'chute payments, as did QPR)? Is it really THAT "truly exceptional" or do they just have competent people running those clubs? Sure am not saying we have done well - far from it, just saying Luton are exceptional, as are the likes of Derby in reverse. Likes of Reading and Hull probably more fucked than us. Coventry is a fair comparison. We were clearly better than them a couple of years ago. I’d argue a key factor is they had stability by keeping their manager, we got rid of MW and it’s been a circus ever since |
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Post by alanwycombe on May 28, 2023 8:27:21 GMT
Stains, it’s not the managers (even the manager merry-go-round) that are the problem here.
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Post by stainrodisalegend on May 28, 2023 8:28:18 GMT
Agree about Les but was just making the point that what Luton has achieved is truly exceptional. Plenty of clubs bigger than us have done even worse. We have just stagnated really - probably about where we were prior to MW’s arrival, arguably a bit more fucked due to the FFP threat. Re rich owners there are several in the Champ - not sure ours are THAT wealthy as don’t count the Mittel money as not relevant. Plus with FFP we couldn’t even spend it even if the owners wanted to. You can include the Mittal stake proportionately though. Sorry to have to keep pointing this out but plenty of richer clubs have found ways of circumventing sanctions, and plenty of poorer ones have been more successful with their recruitment. Either way they've fucked it up. It’s Mittel’s son in law who is involved and we are clearly his play thing. Amit brought the big man along to a few games no doubt to try to get him interested but it didn’t work - even when we were in the Prem and the Mittel corporation could have done a Man City they didn’t. Hence why I think that money is irrelevant. I agree early on they prob could have been far more creative but now our card is marked. Also unfair as it is, City are too big to be allowed to fail, we were the perfect sized club with flash owners who they could make an example of. The rules are being ruthlessly applied now and not sure there are any obvious loopholes left. Only one is investing in “yoof” but that’s money down the drain with these clowns. |
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Post by Stanley75 on May 28, 2023 8:51:00 GMT
cant have Fulham or palace on list both massively breached FFP going up Bournemouth twice. Fair enough. But that still leaves Millwall, Luton, Coventry (this season) and Brighton and Brentford (previous seasons), so it doesn't negate the overall point. There's probably other examples too. Should add that Fulham, Palace, Bournemouth and QPR have all breached FFP over the years but which are the better run clubs? General point being FFP can't perpetually be used as an excuse for incompetence, as all the above examples show what can be achieved within the same restrictions and similar budgets. |
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Post by West Acton on May 28, 2023 9:04:48 GMT
Fair enough. But that still leaves Millwall, Luton, Coventry (this season) and Brighton and Brentford (previous seasons), so it doesn't negate the overall point. There's probably other examples too. Should add that Fulham, Palace, Bournemouth and QPR have all breached FFP over the years but which are the better run clubs? General point being FFP can't perpetually be used as an excuse for incompetence, as all the above examples show what can be achieved within the same restrictions and similar budgets. not every FFP breach story is a success Stan. For balance Bolton and Derby went down and remain down. Reading went down this season and us and Birmingham are struggling. West brom by the rumours about to get hammered and find themselves in a very difficult position financially (with parachute payments) in next few weeks and Watford on verge getting hammered too. I don’t think there is a 100% assured way of getting out this league or being successful as we’ve seen sides do it in every way recently. In a way you pays your money and takes your chances. |
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Post by Stanley75 on May 28, 2023 9:20:30 GMT
Should add that Fulham, Palace, Bournemouth and QPR have all breached FFP over the years but which are the better run clubs? General point being FFP can't perpetually be used as an excuse for incompetence, as all the above examples show what can be achieved within the same restrictions and similar budgets. not every FFP breach story is a success Stan. For balance Bolton and Derby went down and remain down. Reading went down this season and us and Birmingham are struggling. West brom by the rumours about to get hammered and find themselves in a very difficult position financially (with parachute payments) in next few weeks and Watford on verge getting hammered too. I don’t think there is a 100% assured way of getting out this league or being successful as we’ve seen sides do it in every way recently. In a way you pays your money and takes your chances. Agree with all of that Westy, but I think the general point stands: The better run clubs thrive, the worse run clubs struggle. Budget-wise it's been a reasonably level playing field for all the examples we've both cited (again, we've benefited from 'chute payments too). Therefore that (and FFP) can't keep being used as an excuse for stagnation, as Hoos and Ferdinand keep insisting on and hiding behind. Indeed it's become lame. |
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Post by acricketer on May 28, 2023 17:28:54 GMT
Welcome back Leeds!
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Post by acricketer on May 28, 2023 19:03:26 GMT
...and Leicester!
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Post by hal9thou on May 29, 2023 11:53:04 GMT
You can include the Mittal stake proportionately though. Sorry to have to keep pointing this out but plenty of richer clubs have found ways of circumventing sanctions, and plenty of poorer ones have been more successful with their recruitment. Either way they've fucked it up. It’s Mittel’s son in law who is involved and we are clearly his play thing. Amit brought the big man along to a few games no doubt to try to get him interested but it didn’t work - even when we were in the Prem and the Mittel corporation could have done a Man City they didn’t. Hence why I think that money is irrelevant. I agree early on they prob could have been far more creative but now our card is marked. Also unfair as it is, City are too big to be allowed to fail, we were the perfect sized club with flash owners who they could make an example of. The rules are being ruthlessly applied now and not sure there are any obvious loopholes left. Only one is investing in “yoof” but that’s money down the drain with these clowns. Fair enough. But that still leaves Millwall, Luton, Coventry (this season) and Brighton and Brentford (previous seasons), so it doesn't negate the overall point. There's probably other examples too. Should add that Fulham, Palace, Bournemouth and QPR have all breached FFP over the years but which are the better run clubs? General point being FFP can't perpetually be used as an excuse for incompetence, as all the above examples show what can be achieved within the same restrictions and similar budgets. Should add that Fulham, Palace, Bournemouth and QPR have all breached FFP over the years but which are the better run clubs? General point being FFP can't perpetually be used as an excuse for incompetence, as all the above examples show what can be achieved within the same restrictions and similar budgets. not every FFP breach story is a success Stan. For balance Bolton and Derby went down and remain down. Reading went down this season and us and Birmingham are struggling. West brom by the rumours about to get hammered and find themselves in a very difficult position financially (with parachute payments) in next few weeks and Watford on verge getting hammered too. I don’t think there is a 100% assured way of getting out this league or being successful as we’ve seen sides do it in every way recently. In a way you pays your money and takes your chances. not every FFP breach story is a success Stan. For balance Bolton and Derby went down and remain down. Reading went down this season and us and Birmingham are struggling. West brom by the rumours about to get hammered and find themselves in a very difficult position financially (with parachute payments) in next few weeks and Watford on verge getting hammered too. I don’t think there is a 100% assured way of getting out this league or being successful as we’ve seen sides do it in every way recently. In a way you pays your money and takes your chances. Agree with all of that Westy, but I think the general point stands: The better run clubs thrive, the worse run clubs struggle. Budget-wise it's been a reasonably level playing field for all the examples we've both cited (again, we've benefited from 'chute payments too). Therefore that (and FFP) can't keep being used as an excuse for stagnation, as Hoos and Ferdinand keep insisting on and hiding behind. Indeed it's become lame. All of these comments approach the heart of the problem. More clubs have breached FFP successfully than fucked it up, but as we know it's still a calculated gamble. We fucked it up, which precipitated a reactionary boom / bust mentality based on the myth of second tier sustainability. That too hasn't worked, as our losses prove. Our recruitment and organisation has been so poor that a whole list of less well off clubs have outstripped us. Under these circs, stagnation is really the best we can hope for until there is either top down reorganisation or regime change. |
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Post by acricketer on May 29, 2023 12:24:00 GMT
All of these comments approach the heart of the problem. More clubs have breached FFP successfully than fucked it up, but as we know it's still a calculated gamble. We fucked it up, which precipitated a reactionary boom / bust mentality based on the myth of second tier sustainability. That too hasn't worked, as our losses prove. Our recruitment and organisation has been so poor that a whole list of less well off clubs have outstripped us. Under these circs, stagnation is really the best we can hope for until there is either top down reorganisation or regime change. Stagnation implies treading water. I think we are rapidly decomposing. |
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Post by hal9thou on May 29, 2023 15:39:57 GMT
All of these comments approach the heart of the problem. More clubs have breached FFP successfully than fucked it up, but as we know it's still a calculated gamble. We fucked it up, which precipitated a reactionary boom / bust mentality based on the myth of second tier sustainability. That too hasn't worked, as our losses prove. Our recruitment and organisation has been so poor that a whole list of less well off clubs have outstripped us. Under these circs, stagnation is really the best we can hope for until there is either top down reorganisation or regime change. Stagnation implies treading water. I think we are rapidly decomposing. trying to keep the vibes as positive as possible, stagnation was the best I could do.... |
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Post by gtleighsr3 on May 29, 2023 15:45:17 GMT
Positive is we soon have that auto glass trophy or whatever it called to play in
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Post by West Acton on May 30, 2023 16:39:02 GMT
Todd Kane binned by Coventry
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Post by 2Loftus on May 30, 2023 16:43:02 GMT
Todd Kane binned by Coventry I expect we'll snap him up... |
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Post by West Acton on May 30, 2023 16:43:52 GMT
Todd Kane binned by Coventry I expect we'll snap him up... imagine |
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Post by 2Loftus on May 30, 2023 16:47:12 GMT
I expect we'll snap him up... imagine After the year we've endured, this would be no surprise at all  |
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Post by James1979 on May 30, 2023 19:56:45 GMT
Now Tod Kane would be right up our scouts street. He’s
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Post by gtleighsr3 on May 30, 2023 20:25:59 GMT
Our scouts probably targeting Christian Atsu 🫣
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Post by Shania on Jun 1, 2023 19:34:50 GMT
Kevin Nisbet to Millwall. Dykes not going to them then it looks like.
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Post by West Acton on Jun 1, 2023 19:54:05 GMT
Leeds owner has put the ground up as collateral to finance him buying Sampdoria 😂🤣 we thought our owners were bad
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Jun 1, 2023 20:27:37 GMT
not every FFP breach story is a success Stan. For balance Bolton and Derby went down and remain down. Reading went down this season and us and Birmingham are struggling. West brom by the rumours about to get hammered and find themselves in a very difficult position financially (with parachute payments) in next few weeks and Watford on verge getting hammered too. I don’t think there is a 100% assured way of getting out this league or being successful as we’ve seen sides do it in every way recently. In a way you pays your money and takes your chances. Agree with all of that Westy, but I think the general point stands: The better run clubs thrive, the worse run clubs struggle. Budget-wise it's been a reasonably level playing field for all the examples we've both cited (again, we've benefited from 'chute payments too). Therefore that (and FFP) can't keep being used as an excuse for stagnation, as Hoos and Ferdinand keep insisting on and hiding behind. Indeed it's become lame. Stagnation no, not spending yes |
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Post by gtleighsr3 on Jun 2, 2023 7:30:16 GMT
Leeds owner has put the ground up as collateral to finance him buying Sampdoria 😂🤣 we thought our owners were bad if we did that, we end up buying purfleet |
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". yes, it restricts us from signing haaland, messi and bellingham but it restricts everyone else too.
