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Post by West Acton on Sept 13, 2019 20:05:37 GMT
Was he really that bad for us or did we just have unrealistic expectations
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Post by Ginger Ninja on Sept 13, 2019 20:13:34 GMT
I thought he was wank for us until the final few months where, quite frankly, he was mustard. Clearly playing for a new contract or a move.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 20:33:55 GMT
Massively underwhelming at the top level, which is where he was invested in to perform
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Post by Tarbie on Sept 13, 2019 20:41:31 GMT
Always thought we played him way too deep myself. Looks a better player pushed right up playing off a centre forward, in my opinion.
Questionable attitude too. Like most signed at that point, only came here cos we threw silly money at him!
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Post by esoxlucius on Sept 14, 2019 7:26:07 GMT
A lot of talent but very mismanaged IMO. I generally liked him but feel he was caught up in the miasma of the period that he was playing for us.
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Post by West Acton on Sept 14, 2019 7:40:51 GMT
A lot of talent but very mismanaged IMO. I generally liked him but feel he was caught up in the miasma of the period that he was playing for us. do you not think players have responsibility to self manage He blasted onto the scene at Blackburn but in hindsight he’s always been championship standard only |
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Post by esoxlucius on Sept 14, 2019 7:50:33 GMT
A lot of talent but very mismanaged IMO. I generally liked him but feel he was caught up in the miasma of the period that he was playing for us. do you not think players have responsibility to self manage He blasted onto the scene at Blackburn but in hindsight he’s always been championship standard only You only have to look at Paul Smyth wrt self management. I had a very long chat with him last season and he was doing everything he could to get a game but SMC didn't fancy him. Paul even said that SMC was by far the best coach he had ever worked with and appreciated the improvement in his game due to it but SMC didn't want to know when confronted about why he couldn't get in the team. Self management can only work if you are an exceptional talent and the manager indulges you. Junior wasn't that talented so if he had gone against the team orders he would have been dropped. They wanted a wingback/ winger so a wingback/ winger they got. IMO he would have been better in a free role behind a fox in the box striker (Austin?) than where he was played most weeks. Look at the mess we made of having Eduardo Vargas in the side and, I am sure, that if he had tried to self manage he would have been out on his ear. Through several conversations I have had with players over the years going back to the mid 80's and reading many articles and books about footballers careers it is quite obvious that their is a firm conviction that the gaffer has to be obeyed no matter what and if you buck against it you are off training with the U16's. You only have to look at the Bosingwa situation with us to see that even a Champions League winner can be portrayed as the villain of the piece when he goes against the manager. |
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Post by West Acton on Sept 14, 2019 7:59:41 GMT
Paul Smyth never played because he was not good enough or ready to play same as this season hence why he’s out on loan.
Great to hear he’s doing right things and soaking up the learning but don’t mean you should play
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Post by esoxlucius on Sept 14, 2019 8:06:00 GMT
Paul Smyth never played because he was not good enough or ready to play same as this season hence why he’s out on loan. Great to hear he’s doing right things and soaking up the learning but don’t mean you should play He was ahead of Tyler Walker but Tyler wasn't asking questions. That is the point I was trying to make, |
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Post by Stanley75 on Sept 14, 2019 8:10:20 GMT
if he had gone against the team orders he would have been dropped. I don't think that's what Wests meant by 'self-manage' Esox. This is the kind of thing he was referring to: I thought he was wank for us until the final few months where, quite frankly, he was mustard. Clearly playing for a new contract or a move. the gaffer has to be obeyed no matter what and if you buck against it you are off training with the U16's. Which is how it should be, Shirley. |
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Post by esoxlucius on Sept 14, 2019 8:59:06 GMT
I take your point Stanley but the system smacks of serfdom for the most part and IMO, it's about time that footballers were introduced to the wonders of 360º powerful conversations and other communications tools to get the most from them. A manager refusing to talk to members of your first team squad and then other mangers telling their players to fuck off when they want to talk to you isn't my idea of how to get players to perform. Mike Brearley, in cricket, had the right idea; get to know your players, get to know what makes them tick and then you can get them to perform to their best effect. One of his stories was regarding Bob Willis and Ian Botham; if you questioned Bob Willis about his bowling it completely undermined him and got in his head so you had keep up a constant barrage of "Great ball Bob, let's see some more of that" etc. whereas with I.T. is was all about winding him up e.g.after he bowled a jaffa turn to him and ask if that was the best he had and watch him try and bowl an even better ball.
I may be old but I am very glad that the days of teams going out and getting pissed together before games as a team bonding exercise are mostly gone in the upper echelons of football these days. Football fans are best served when their team is playing well and that leads to winning; getting coaches and managers to understand and communicate with those players is a much better tool for the majority of them to perform better. Look at how much dialogue has taken place in the threads on this message board, people putting forward their views and listening to others, it has made this one of the best places to discuss QPR and other subjects.
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Post by Stanley75 on Sept 14, 2019 10:01:17 GMT
Sure Esox, but how often do you hear managers say words to the effect of "My office door is always open to my players" and "I would prefer and expect them to be knocking on my door asking to know why they're not in the team. Because that tells me how keen they are to play, which is exactly the kind of attitude I wish to instill." As opposed to them sitting on their fat contracts or on the injury table, and not giving a shit. This too is the narrative most modern managers would believe and adopt.
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Post by acricketer on Sept 14, 2019 22:24:51 GMT
I take your point Stanley but the system smacks of serfdom for the most part and IMO, it's about time that footballers were introduced to the wonders of 360º powerful conversations and other communications tools to get the most from them. A manager refusing to talk to members of your first team squad and then other mangers telling their players to fuck off when they want to talk to you isn't my idea of how to get players to perform. Mike Brearley, in cricket, had the right idea; get to know your players, get to know what makes them tick and then you can get them to perform to their best effect. One of his stories was regarding Bob Willis and Ian Botham; if you questioned Bob Willis about his bowling it completely undermined him and got in his head so you had keep up a constant barrage of "Great ball Bob, let's see some more of that" etc. whereas with I.T. is was all about winding him up e.g.after he bowled a jaffa turn to him and ask if that was the best he had and watch him try and bowl an even better ball. I may be old but I am very glad that the days of teams going out and getting pissed together before games as a team bonding exercise are mostly gone in the upper echelons of football these days. Football fans are best served when their team is playing well and that leads to winning; getting coaches and managers to understand and communicate with those players is a much better tool for the majority of them to perform better. Look at how much dialogue has taken place in the threads on this message board, people putting forward their views and listening to others, it has made this one of the best places to discuss QPR and other subjects. I think man management is vitally important and distinguishes great coaches from mediocre ones. I also believe in team spirit. Saw on LFW on the Roy Keane thread that it was the boys who boozed together that showed up when things got toughest, something I have experienced in the military, in business and in sports. |
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Post by shepherdsmush on Sept 16, 2019 8:31:23 GMT
Hoilett was just another overpaid primadonna who simply didn't deliver on a consistent basis but I would have had 10 of him to every SWP.
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Post by Rangers77 on Sept 16, 2019 9:26:54 GMT
Always will get credit for the cross enabling Keogh's assist for Bobby's wonderful goal.
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Post by Stanley75 on Sept 16, 2019 9:57:21 GMT
Always will get credit for the cross enabling Keogh's assist for Bobby's wonderful goal. As will SWP for his screamer against Chelsea  |
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Post by alanwycombe on Sept 16, 2019 9:58:18 GMT
Hoilett was just another overpaid primadonna who simply didn't deliver on a consistent basis but I would have had 10 of him to every SWP. Summed up what we meant to him when he scored at the Fridge and clearly regretted it. |
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Post by Rangers77 on Sept 16, 2019 9:58:25 GMT
Always will get credit for the cross enabling Keogh's assist for Bobby's wonderful goal. As will SWP for his screamer against Chelsea Not from me, I'm afraid. As much as I enjoyed that goal. |
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Post by gloucesterr on Sept 16, 2019 10:11:54 GMT
On his day was very good for us but too many times looked like he couldn't care less but then we had a few of those in the top tier.
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Post by shepherdsmush on Sept 16, 2019 10:18:07 GMT
Cracking goal against Brentford and a decent assist for the bloke who hated football. That is about it.
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Post by Corbray on Sept 16, 2019 11:22:57 GMT
waste of time and aside from his assist in the playoff final was only good for us in his last season when he was putting his name out there. that whole era was a joke anyway
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