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Post by esoxlucius on Oct 5, 2019 19:19:41 GMT
Brilliant result. The defence remains a concern but brilliant. The way we are set up to play will mean that we will always be at risk of shipping a goal. Just accept it and enjoy the ride. I heard the crowd moaning during the game when we were passing it around at the back trying to draw Blackburn on to us but they weren't biting (same as Cardiff) but they persevered despite the groans and suddenly we were 1-0 up. Fans are going to have to get used to seeing something they aren't used to and getting on board with it instead of moaning when there is a slip up. This team has barely been together a little more than two months (Aug. & Sept.) and to be where we are and having people moaning about aspects of it is hard to believe. If we can keep this squad complete for next season, bar Hugill as I don't think QPR would splash £8m on him, we will be a very strong side indeed. |
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Post by Tarbie on Oct 5, 2019 19:24:56 GMT
Probably right mate. There was one on Eze 5 mins earlier though that probably was also a pen I think. can't really see barbet's tackle properly from that camera angle so too hard for me to judge, i'm in the upper loft so didn't have a clear view of the tackle anyway but it looked good from my seat, either way it doesn't matter as we still won! the eze tackle would have been proper soft though imo. although that didn't stop me from screaming at the ref for not giving it of course Thought it was a pen at the time. I'll reserve further comment til I see the highlights. |
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awin
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Post by awin on Oct 5, 2019 19:28:19 GMT
can't really see barbet's tackle properly from that camera angle so too hard for me to judge, i'm in the upper loft so didn't have a clear view of the tackle anyway but it looked good from my seat, either way it doesn't matter as we still won! the eze tackle would have been proper soft though imo. although that didn't stop me from screaming at the ref for not giving it of course Thought it was a pen at the time. I'll reserve further comment til I see the highlights. Nailed on for me. |
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Post by Ginger Ninja on Oct 5, 2019 19:32:30 GMT
Brilliant result. The defence remains a concern but brilliant. The way we are set up to play will mean that we will always be at risk of shipping a goal. Just accept it and enjoy the ride. I heard the crowd moaning during the game when we were passing it around at the back trying to draw Blackburn on to us but they weren't biting (same as Cardiff) but they persevered despite the groans and suddenly we were 1-0 up. Fans are going to have to get used to seeing something they aren't used to and getting on board with it instead of moaning when there is a slip up. This team has barely been together a little more than two months (Aug. & Sept.) and to be where we are and having people moaning about aspects of it is hard to believe. If we can keep this squad complete for next season, bar Hugill as I don't think QPR would splash £8m on him, we will be a very strong side indeed. Nah sorry mate I can't have that. How is us shipping easily avoidable goals something that we should just accept? Case in point, every goal we conceded against WBA and Cardiff was easily avoidable, down to schoolboy defending. The attack isn't always going to be on song so if we keep defending like this we will end up dropping more points than we gain. As I said, brilliant result, very happy with the performance overall, but to get us into that category of actually being a force this season we need to tighten up at the back and stop giving away cheap goals. I can't be just content to give goals away and hope we outscored our opponents every game. |
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Post by West Acton on Oct 5, 2019 19:37:30 GMT
Agree 100% Ginge we should be striving for perfection not making excuses for coming up short. I don’t get that mentality
Shout out for Scowen by the way, solid without being spectacular good effort from him
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Post by esoxlucius on Oct 5, 2019 19:43:14 GMT
That's the way we play, knock it about at the back and play zonal defence. Even Man City cock it up when they play it so our little band of heroes are even more likely to cock it up, and do so. We aren't going to be a force this season, it is unreasonable, IMO, to think we will. Blackburn have been the best footballing side we have beaten this season and our current position in the table is about as good as it is going to get I think. Maybe next season with a couple of additions and not losing any of our stars we might well be in a much stronger position. As I said the final part of the jigsaw didn't arrive at the club until just before our first game in August and this team WILL make a lot of mistakes until MW has finished polishing the rough edges off. You have to view what is happening this season at QPR as a start on putting a team together which can go on and compete with the best over the next fw seasons in the same way Gordon Jago & Dave Sexton did, and the same way Terry Venables did. Both carefully assembled sides ended up as proper quality sides but it didn't happen in the first season they took over.
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Post by Ginger Ninja on Oct 5, 2019 19:47:28 GMT
That's the way we play, knock it about at the back and play zonal defence. Even Man City cock it up when they play it so our little band of heroes are even more likely to cock it up, and do so. We aren't going to be a force this season, it is unreasonable, IMO, to think we will. Blackburn have been the best footballing side we have beaten this season and our current position in the table is about as good as it is going to get I think. Maybe next season with a couple of additions and not losing any of our stars we might well be in a much stronger position. As I said the final part of the jigsaw didn't arrive at the club until just before our first game in August and this team WILL make a lot of mistakes until MW has finished polishing the rough edges off. You have to view what is happening this season at QPR as a start on putting a team together which can go on and compete with the best over the next fw seasons in the same way Gordon Jago & Dave Sexton did, and the same way Terry Venables did. Both carefully assembled sides ended up as proper quality sides but it didn't happen in the first season they took over. I'm not expecting it to happen this season, but if there's a glimmer of a chance that, with a bit more defensive nous, we can be top 10 this season, are you really telling me you'd still settle for mid table rather than that? I'm not saying at all that we shouldn't be conceding full stop, all I'm saying is we should at least be getting the basics right defensively, and that isn't something we've done at all this season. I don't think its unreasonable at all to want that. |
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Post by Tarbie on Oct 5, 2019 19:48:51 GMT
That's the way we play, knock it about at the back and play zonal defence. Even Man City cock it up when they play it so our little band of heroes are even more likely to cock it up, and do so. We aren't going to be a force this season, it is unreasonable, IMO, to think we will. Blackburn have been the best footballing side we have beaten this season and our current position in the table is about as good as it is going to get I think. Maybe next season with a couple of additions and not losing any of our stars we might well be in a much stronger position. As I said the final part of the jigsaw didn't arrive at the club until just before our first game in August and this team WILL make a lot of mistakes until MW has finished polishing the rough edges off. You have to view what is happening this season at QPR as a start on putting a team together which can go on and compete with the best over the next fw seasons in the same way Gordon Jago & Dave Sexton did, and the same way Terry Venables did. Both carefully assembled sides ended up as proper quality sides but it didn't happen in the first season they took over. Don't disagree with the bulk of what you're saying here mate, but I don't understand why we can't play an attractive style of football but also improve our defence at set pieces, and stop taking so many silly risks at the back. Am I missing something? I also don't understand why we can't dare to dream of a play-off spot this season. Having seen pretty much every side in the division play now, I don't see that many good sides. Regardless if we were put together on a shoe string, we are one of the top 7 or 8 sides in this division without a shadow of a doubt! |
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Post by esoxlucius on Oct 5, 2019 19:53:50 GMT
That's the way we play, knock it about at the back and play zonal defence. Even Man City cock it up when they play it so our little band of heroes are even more likely to cock it up, and do so. We aren't going to be a force this season, it is unreasonable, IMO, to think we will. Blackburn have been the best footballing side we have beaten this season and our current position in the table is about as good as it is going to get I think. Maybe next season with a couple of additions and not losing any of our stars we might well be in a much stronger position. As I said the final part of the jigsaw didn't arrive at the club until just before our first game in August and this team WILL make a lot of mistakes until MW has finished polishing the rough edges off. You have to view what is happening this season at QPR as a start on putting a team together which can go on and compete with the best over the next fw seasons in the same way Gordon Jago & Dave Sexton did, and the same way Terry Venables did. Both carefully assembled sides ended up as proper quality sides but it didn't happen in the first season they took over. I'm not expecting it to happen this season, but if there's a glimmer of a chance that, with a bit more defensive nous, we can be top 10 this season, are you really telling me you'd still settle for mid table rather than that? I'm not saying at all that we shouldn't be conceding full stop, all I'm saying is we should at least be getting the basics right defensively, and that isn't something we've done at all this season. I don't think its unreasonable at all to want that. And as I keep saying we are playing with a set of players who have barely played together and are bound to make mistakes, this will improve as the months go on, I believe that, You can't just pour an understanding into their ears and it will all come right, they will have to play together, understand each others strengths and weaknesses and grow a bond of trust between themselves we are a long way from the Macca, Maddix, Bardsley, Wilson defence and even they shipped a few big scores on off days. If the progress shown in the first couple of months continues then that top ten place will come naturally but I wouldn't be bothered if we ended up mid table playing this quality of football as I think we are already good enough to avoid relegation and that was the biggest fear of nearly all fans before the game at Stoke. |
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Post by Shania on Oct 5, 2019 20:07:51 GMT
A comment from their messageboard: lol..
"Truly awful set up and performance. QPR were poor but picked us off due to capitalising on our mistakes, and knowing their roles and responsibilities. We have more talent and potential than them but nobody would know it. What a waste."
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Post by davieqpr on Oct 5, 2019 22:14:31 GMT
If we tell Manning, Rangel, Cameron and the rest to stop getting forward and for Eze and Chair to constantly track back whilst any wingers go deep and help their FB then we might have a clean sheet and lots of 0-0 draws. But how boring.
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Post by Tarbie on Oct 5, 2019 22:34:53 GMT
If we tell Manning, Rangel, Cameron and the rest to stop getting forward and for Eze and Chair to constantly track back whilst any wingers go deep and help their FB then we might have a clean sheet and lots of 0-0 draws. But how boring. Not having that either mate. We can defend set pieces far better without sacrificing any of our attacking intent! |
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Post by Ginger Ninja on Oct 5, 2019 22:43:26 GMT
If we tell Manning, Rangel, Cameron and the rest to stop getting forward and for Eze and Chair to constantly track back whilst any wingers go deep and help their FB then we might have a clean sheet and lots of 0-0 draws. But how boring. No one said anything about stopping them going forward. As Tarbs said, it's the set pieces and the basics that need improvement. Absolutely no complaints about us going forward, you can do that without the defence suffering. |
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Post by alanwycombe on Oct 5, 2019 23:10:44 GMT
If we tell Manning, Rangel, Cameron and the rest to stop getting forward and for Eze and Chair to constantly track back whilst any wingers go deep and help their FB then we might have a clean sheet and lots of 0-0 draws. But how boring. or how about we tell Barbet to stay on his feet in the box? |
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Post by 1qprdk on Oct 5, 2019 23:15:04 GMT
Agreed. It's not like we concede from fast breaks all the time. Only when we're chasing the game. So improvement in defense should be achievable without affecting our attacking game.
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Post by West Acton on Oct 6, 2019 6:09:03 GMT
A comment from their messageboard: lol.. "Truly awful set up and performance. QPR were poor but picked us off due to capitalising on our mistakes, and knowing their roles and responsibilities. We have more talent and potential than them but nobody would know it. What a waste."
sounds kind us midweek against Cardiff Think that Blackburn fan is bit blinkered. They don’t have more talented side then us, dack aside, they looked a solid, hardworking, attritional side. No more no less. Type of side that will hover around in the league for years And years without troubling either end of the table |
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Post by Tarbie on Oct 6, 2019 6:10:35 GMT
If we tell Manning, Rangel, Cameron and the rest to stop getting forward and for Eze and Chair to constantly track back whilst any wingers go deep and help their FB then we might have a clean sheet and lots of 0-0 draws. But how boring. or how about we tell Barbet to stay on his feet in the box? This would be a good starting point. Although I do feel he gets caught out some times as we hold such a high line, and he lacks pace. Forces him into last ditch tackles! |
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Post by Stanley75 on Oct 6, 2019 9:28:52 GMT
We aren't going to be a force this season, it is unreasonable, IMO, to think we will....our current position in the table is about as good as it is going to get I think. Yeah, I get the psychology. Publicly downplay our chances / expectations, but privately believe we can achieve better 😉 |
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Post by hal9thou on Oct 6, 2019 10:55:28 GMT
That's the way we play, knock it about at the back and play zonal defence. If you work zones you have to be properly coached and set up to do so. This applies even more so if you always play out from the back. The fact is that we literally can not keep clean sheets, which means we're only going so far until this long standing issue gets sorted If everyone is happy to accept that, that's fine. But play out sides and decent defending are not mutually incompatible, plus we were iffy at the back long before Warburton. It therefore has to be down to something else: lack of decent coaching. Either that or we have to accept that those who warned pre season about the lack of quality at the back were right all along... in other words, even with a quality defence coach we'd still be shit. Personally, I just don't think the coaching staff is up to the job when it comes to the arse end. Massive room for improvement back there even with current squad limitations. |
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Post by Ginger Ninja on Oct 6, 2019 11:54:05 GMT
or how about we tell Barbet to stay on his feet in the box? This would be a good starting point. Although I do feel he gets caught out some times as we hold such a high line, and he lacks pace. Forces him into last ditch tackles! I agree with this, he's cost us 4 goals this season giving away silly penalties, though having looked at the replay several times I think he was very unlucky yesterday, still think it was a good tackle, maybe a little bit behind the player. |
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Post by West Acton on Oct 6, 2019 12:43:38 GMT
This would be a good starting point. Although I do feel he gets caught out some times as we hold such a high line, and he lacks pace. Forces him into last ditch tackles! I agree with this, he's cost us 4 goals this season giving away silly penalties, though having looked at the replay several times I think he was very unlucky yesterday, still think it was a good tackle, maybe a little bit behind the player. been trying not say this guys as don’t want be a manning beater as he’s really improved but you need look how exposed Barbet is left playing alongside him. Sometimes he’s stuck between two players as manning is so out of position and this makes him look bad while manning gets plaudits |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2019 12:57:52 GMT
I agree with this, he's cost us 4 goals this season giving away silly penalties, though having looked at the replay several times I think he was very unlucky yesterday, still think it was a good tackle, maybe a little bit behind the player. been trying not say this guys as don’t want be a manning beater as he’s really improved but you need look how exposed Barbet is left playing alongside him. Sometimes he’s stuck between two players as manning is so out of position and this makes him look bad while manning gets plaudits You could look at it another way Westy and say as Barbet is an experienced defender who has played at Left back why is he not making sure Manning is where he should be. Manning has done ok at Left Back and compare his performances in that position to Pawel's at RWB and maybe you may have a different view. |
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Post by 1qprdk on Oct 6, 2019 13:03:33 GMT
don’t want be a manning beater  |
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Post by esoxlucius on Oct 6, 2019 13:14:19 GMT
For a team that was only put together finally in the week before the Stoke game I fully expect them to be making mistakes as they learn what is wanted from them by MW. AFAIAC they get a free pass from me until the end of the season if they continue to serve up the sort of football we have been treated to this season. I refuse to criticise the players faults when there are so many positives to feed on, Barbet had an excellent game yesterday but his speed will always be his downfall; it's why Brentford let his contract run out, accept it and move on. If the coaching team are focusing more on passing and movement at the expense of shipping goals then so be it, I am enjoying the hell out of the results. Looking at the teams who have beaten us thus far and the teams we have beaten thus far it would indicate a top 10-12 finish. I'll take that all day long even if we end up with a negative goal difference. We weren't able to afford anyone who had a fee so we ended up with players who were likely to be battling relegation all season and the fact that we aren't is cause enough for celebration; the fact that we are witnessing some of the best football since the halcyon days gets ALL the players a free ride from me. I am not unaware that Joe is awkward with the ball at his feet, I am not unaware that Manning can't hardly defend, I am not unaware that Barbet is very slow and gets caught out, I am not unaware that Leistner too is slow, I am not unaware that BOS has a terrible conversion rate for his shots, similarly with Hugill, but I don't give a fuck. I haven't enjoyed heading down to W12 so much in many a long year. Since yesterday I have read so many negative comments about incidents in yesterdays game but not a single mention of the exquisite backheel from Eze near the end. There was so much to admire yesterday but, mostly, all I have seen is petty criticisms.
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Post by Ginger Ninja on Oct 6, 2019 15:04:17 GMT
As I've said, esox, it was a very good performance and result and I'm very happy, but to say there isn't room for improvement and we should just accept our defensive frailties when they can be so easily worked on is, quite frankly, ridiculous.
I'm very happy with how this season has gone so far, far surpassed any expectations I had at the start of the season.
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Post by Tarbie on Oct 6, 2019 15:17:04 GMT
Esox, are you one those that reckons every kid at the sports day deserves a medal just for taking part? 🤣
Honestly, it's a new side etc. ain't an argument in football these days. On average a manager gets 18 months in the job in the top 2 divisions and changes happen every window.
I get you're all about positivity, but if everyone pussy footed around life like you are suggesting, absolutely fuck all would ever get done.
We're a good side. With a bit of focus and direction, we're a promotion side. Stop short selling us!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2019 15:27:18 GMT
We cannot expect to outscore every team we play so something needs doing with the defence. Good to watch going forward but ugly to watch defensively as highlighted by the 2nd Cardiff goal the other night.
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Post by Stanley75 on Oct 6, 2019 15:49:00 GMT
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Post by esoxlucius on Oct 6, 2019 16:06:57 GMT
I wrote quite a long post explaining my point again and then deleted it because I had already explained that my position is that we ARE improving little by little each game. It's not bollocks to suggest that it will take time for the players to iron out the faults and although Neil Harris left his club this week I really hope that the fans will give MW and his team a few seasons to build a proper team the way Jago & Venables did.
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Post by West Acton on Oct 6, 2019 16:12:32 GMT
Amos is a miss to the side proper player
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