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Post by alanwycombe on Sept 3, 2020 8:29:38 GMT
I prefer Chris Wilder's approach: ' A GKs job is simple. Keep the ball out of the net first and foremost and worry about the rest of it later'. This. Every time. We've had some top, top keepers here over the years who wouldn't get in the side if 'comfortable on the ball' is a requirement. |
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Post by BrightonR on Sept 3, 2020 9:49:55 GMT
I prefer Chris Wilder's approach: ' A GKs job is simple. Keep the ball out of the net first and foremost and worry about the rest of it later'. This. Every time. We've had some top, top keepers here over the years who wouldn't get in the side if 'comfortable on the ball' is a requirement. I’m in total agreement that the keepers ability to protect the goal is paramount. However, is it really too much to expect that an obviously sporty type athlete should be capable of controlling a back pass and make a reasonably accurate attempt at playing it to one of his own players? Nobody is expecting them to go on a mazy run. |
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Post by Tarbie on Sept 3, 2020 10:11:53 GMT
With regards to Dieng, from reports I've read and highlights of appearances I've seen of him he looks decent. A significant improvement from Barnes as 3rd option and probably good enough to compete with Lumley and Kelly for the number 1 spot. I think its probably also fair to say he's something of a late bloomer (mind you, we said that about Lumley and he's turned out just to be not very good! 😂).
If it was my call I'd get rid of Lumley, purely cos his contract has a year to run and we could probably still get money for him if we act now. I'd also get rid of Barnes. Put our trust in Dieng and Kelly, also have a look at our U23's or the transfer market for a suitable 3rd option.
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Post by hal9thou on Sept 3, 2020 11:17:07 GMT
This. Every time. We've had some top, top keepers here over the years who wouldn't get in the side if 'comfortable on the ball' is a requirement. I’m in total agreement that the keepers ability to protect the goal is paramount. However, is it really too much to expect that an obviously sporty type athlete should be capable of controlling a back pass and make a reasonably accurate attempt at playing it to one of his own players? Nobody is expecting them to go on a mazy run.
England have got the same problem. I think there's a general consensus that when it comes to keeping the net empty Nick Pope is the man for the job. Unfortunately Southgate has similar delusions to Warburton, albeit he has a better class of player to work with. This means the best GK may not get picked.
The problem with playing it out every time is that unless you have exceptional ballers in the back line a really strong press will fuck you up (Bayern / PSG). PSG looked like the U11s by the end of it. Kept making the same mistake and got absolutely rogered senseless by the high press. Same thing will happen to us unless we vary the diet a bit. I want our GK to command the box, catch the ball and save shots. If he does that I don't care if he leathers it when he sees fit.
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Post by West Acton on Sept 3, 2020 12:41:45 GMT
Goal keeper should be able to use his feet as well as his hands. As bright says we’re paying someone probably 20k a month but some of you seem happy to say you can write off one basic aspect of a footballers and goalkeepers job controlling and passing a ball
I’ve heard plenty say that footballers should be able to use both feet and not be one footed (Wycombe your one of them) so why do those high standards/expectations of an outfield player not apply to the keeper?
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Post by hal9thou on Sept 3, 2020 14:39:22 GMT
i’ve heard plenty say that footballers should be able to use both feet and not be one footed (Wycombe your one of them) so why do those high standards/expectations of an outfield player not apply to the keeper?
Which is like saying we expect our no 10 to be pretty decent with the gloves on. GK is the most specialised position on the park.
Let's not complicate it. Apart from anything else, we don't have the staff to play out 100% of the time. We still do it when we're getting the shit pressed out of us (just like PSG did), absolute madness. If Warburton was prepared to compromise on this we'd end up with more points and GK confidence intact. Only play it out when the play out is on. |
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Post by Tarbie on Sept 3, 2020 14:59:32 GMT
i’ve heard plenty say that footballers should be able to use both feet and not be one footed (Wycombe your one of them) so why do those high standards/expectations of an outfield player not apply to the keeper?
Which is like saying we expect our no 10 to be pretty decent with the gloves on. GK is the most specialised position on the park.
Let's not complicate it. Apart from anything else, we don't have the staff to play out 100% of the time. We still do it when we're getting the shit pressed out of us (just like PSG did), absolute madness. If Warburton was prepared to compromise on this we'd end up with more points and GK confidence intact. Only play it out when the play out is on. My thoughts too mate. |
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Post by alanwycombe on Sept 16, 2020 13:17:50 GMT
Goal keeper should be able to use his feet as well as his hands. As bright says we’re paying someone probably 20k a month but some of you seem happy to say you can write off one basic aspect of a footballers and goalkeepers job controlling and passing a ball I’ve heard plenty say that footballers should be able to use both feet and not be one footed (Wycombe your one of them) so why do those high standards/expectations of an outfield player not apply to the keeper? Because a keeper's attributes should be handling, athleticism, timing/reactions, decision making and generally keeping the ball out of the net as often as possible. Specialist position more so than any other. Fancy footwork and passing way down on my list. |
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Post by West Acton on Sept 16, 2020 15:26:42 GMT
Names in the role Al professional FOOTballer
Don’t ever want hear your mention one footed players again based on above 😜
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Post by alanwycombe on Sept 16, 2020 16:53:07 GMT
Names in the role Al professional FOOTballer Don’t ever want hear your mention one footed players again based on above 😜 No mate sorry, not the same thing at all. I practised with my wrong foot until I could use it - Pro players a thousand times better than me ought to be able to too. As for keepers playing FOOTball outfield players don't catch the ball but should they be good at keeping too? |
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Post by West Acton on Sept 16, 2020 17:19:42 GMT
But they should not practice with their feet simply because there keeper 🙄 OK
Let’s accept mediocrity
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Post by Stanley75 on Sept 16, 2020 17:28:01 GMT
Modern day keepers need to be comfortable with the ball at their feet. I'm sure Alan would concede that. I don't think that's what the debate is though.
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Post by gtleighsr3 on Sept 16, 2020 17:33:37 GMT
They teach sweeper keeper in academies,well Southend did,spurs did,Ipswich orient arsenal did,when my son trained played for against and trialled for them. Orient col u bit more reserved.
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Post by alanwycombe on Sept 16, 2020 18:17:02 GMT
But they should not practice with their feet simply because there keeper 🙄 OK Let’s accept mediocrity Didn't say that at all. But shot stopper first, ball player way second. Clean sheets don't lose. |
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Post by West Acton on Sept 16, 2020 19:17:51 GMT
Modern day keepers need to be comfortable with the ball at their feet. I'm sure Alan would concede that. I don't think that's what the debate is though. think he just wants them to be able to catch and block the ball by sounds of it I’m on same page as you, not expecting keeper to be able to ping the ball like Beckham but surely it’s not unreasonable to expect them to be able to pass it and do more then simply keep it out the net, hence why anything else is accepting mediocrity Same reason and principle Why I get on at Manning he should be doing better defensively and I will never accept his half hearted efforts towards his own goal, suppose it’s all about expectations and wanting the best from each player instead of giving them easy outs |
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Post by West Acton on Sept 16, 2020 19:18:56 GMT
But they should not practice with their feet simply because there keeper 🙄 OK Let’s accept mediocrity Didn't say that at all. But shot stopper first, ball player way second. Clean sheets don't lose. if opposition don’t have the ball they can’t score! |
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Post by alanwycombe on Sept 17, 2020 9:09:20 GMT
Scum were winning big with Petr Cech - record clean sheet keeper, no footballer. Spend squillions on a footballing keeper and now strongly rumoured to be looking to get rid because he lets in goals he should be saving.
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Post by 1973ranger on Sept 17, 2020 11:19:23 GMT
Jan Oblak is debatabely the best keeper in the world but not as good as Ederson with his feet but given the choice I would take him over Ederson and most other keepers with the exception of Neuer.
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Post by hal9thou on Sept 17, 2020 11:30:16 GMT
Modern day keepers need to be comfortable with the ball at their feet. I'm sure Alan would concede that. I don't think that's what the debate is though.
I see what you did there.......
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Post by Stanley75 on Sept 17, 2020 11:43:24 GMT
Modern day keepers need to be comfortable with the ball at their feet. I'm sure Alan would concede that. I don't think that's what the debate is though. I see what you did there....... You give me too much credit; but perhaps it was subconscious  |
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Post by 1973ranger on Sept 17, 2020 12:41:34 GMT
Liverpool bought Allison to primarily keep the ball out of the net and the fact he is good with his feet is a bonus where as City bought Ederson for his ability with the ball at his feet first and his ability to keep it out of the net. A lot now depends on the coach and how he wants the team to play.
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Post by hal9thou on Sept 17, 2020 15:13:55 GMT
Liverpool bought Allison to primarily keep the ball out of the net and the fact he is good with his feet is a bonus where as City bought Ederson for his ability with the ball at his feet first and his ability to keep it out of the net. A lot now depends on the coach and how he wants the team to play.
And - crucially - the footballing quality of the defenders in front of the GK.
I don't care who the GK is, you get him playing out at every time to average defenders, then the opposition are going to press you high and hard. You're gonna concede.
Warburton needs to cut according to his cloth, not some half baked ideology.
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Post by BrightonR on Sept 17, 2020 15:25:52 GMT
If it was just about keeping the ball out of the net, we could simply wedge Gemma Collins between the sticks.
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Post by Corbray on Sept 17, 2020 15:42:25 GMT
modern keepers need to be competent with the ball at their feet as its the future of the game.
atm most keepers aren't comfortable with the ball at their feet but that will change in the years to come as the game is constantly developing. having a keeper who's good with the ball allows the team to keep possession and push higher up the pitch as they know they can rely on passing backwards if need be
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Post by Stanley75 on Sept 17, 2020 15:43:01 GMT
If it was just about keeping the ball out of the net, we could simply wedge Gemma Collins between the sticks. Well at least Leighsie’s avatar would have some relevance if that happened 😲 |
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Post by 1973ranger on Sept 17, 2020 16:08:08 GMT
Liverpool bought Allison to primarily keep the ball out of the net and the fact he is good with his feet is a bonus where as City bought Ederson for his ability with the ball at his feet first and his ability to keep it out of the net. A lot now depends on the coach and how he wants the team to play.
And - crucially - the footballing quality of the defenders in front of the GK.
I don't care who the GK is, you get him playing out at every time to average defenders, then the opposition are going to press you high and hard. You're gonna concede.
Warburton needs to cut according to his cloth, not some half baked ideology.
Liverpool had the same back four with Karius in goal as they have with Allison and play the same way but it was the keeper who cost them the goals by poor basic errors. Different results with a proper goalkeeper between the sticks |
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Post by alanwycombe on Sept 17, 2020 19:28:38 GMT
modern keepers need to be competent with the ball at their feet as its the future of the game. atm most keepers aren't comfortable with the ball at their feet but that will change in the years to come as the game is constantly developing. having a keeper who's good with the ball allows the team to keep possession and push higher up the pitch as they know they can rely on passing backwards if need be I don't disagree Corbs but it's no good having a keeper who can field a back pass if he can't keep it out of the net when it's fired at him. There are 10 players who use their feet but only one to make saves and take crosses. Saves win matches more than passes out to full backs or DMs. Solid keeper is a must, good with his feet is a bonus. |
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Post by alanwycombe on Sept 17, 2020 19:31:58 GMT
Liverpool bought Allison to primarily keep the ball out of the net and the fact he is good with his feet is a bonus where as City bought Ederson for his ability with the ball at his feet first and his ability to keep it out of the net. A lot now depends on the coach and how he wants the team to play. Ederson pretty good at keeping the ball out of the net too though. |
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Post by 1973ranger on Sept 17, 2020 21:05:39 GMT
Liverpool bought Allison to primarily keep the ball out of the net and the fact he is good with his feet is a bonus where as City bought Ederson for his ability with the ball at his feet first and his ability to keep it out of the net. A lot now depends on the coach and how he wants the team to play. Ederson pretty good at keeping the ball out of the net too though. Not too shabby, He is the best with the ball at his feet but would not be the best keeper keeper. Perfect for Pep but maybe not for Mourinho due to how their teams are set up to play. |
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Post by Stanley75 on Sept 17, 2020 21:06:04 GMT
Solid keeper is a must, good with his feet is a bonus.Perhaps in this day and age it's no longer considered to be a "bonus". It would seem that more is expected of goalkeepers in 2020 than yesteryear. So yes, agreed that a solid keeper is a must, but perhaps they're now expected to be better with their feet too compared with days gone by. And as others have pointed out this obviously also depends on the style of play you adopt, and as Hal mentioned, if you do decide to play out from the back but do not have the players entirely comfortable in that style (keeper included), then you can guarantee the oppo will play a high press to exploit any vulnerabilities. So in summary, play that way if you have the players to execute it, but if you don't then it's way too risky and you shouldn't even attempt it. So in QPR's case, where this all began, I think we can all agree that this style certainly doesn't play to Lumley's strengths. Indeed it has arguably been the reason for his collapse in confidence and loss of form last season, which too I think we can all agree on. Where there is contention is in Warburton's persistence with this style of play despite it being clear that he lacks the personnel to carry it out, and we all witnessed how many conceded goals and dropped points that cost us last term. So we can only hope, as we can with Manning too, that he will be cannier this season and adapt his ways. |
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