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Post by 1973ranger on Dec 30, 2020 16:18:22 GMT
In all my years of watching Rangers I have only ever seen one player achieve beyond expectations and go from zero to hero - I will stand corrected by other older guys on here but... Mick Leach. To begin with there were groans when his name was announced but he ended up holding his own in a team of internationals. He had limited ability but Sexton helped him achieve a level of consistency so you always knew what you were going to get and that became a key role in the team. Now, compare and contrast... MW is no Sexton and Dykes is no Leach. Alan. I would also say Les Ferdinand was the same as he was going nowhere until Gerry became manager. He also had Butch Wilkins coaching him during games. MW is no GF and LTC is no Butch Wilkins |
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Post by 1973ranger on Dec 30, 2020 16:20:37 GMT
In all my years of watching Rangers I have only ever seen one player achieve beyond expectations and go from zero to hero - I will stand corrected by other older guys on here but... Mick Leach. To begin with there were groans when his name was announced but he ended up holding his own in a team of internationals. He had limited ability but Sexton helped him achieve a level of consistency so you always knew what you were going to get and that became a key role in the team. Now, compare and contrast... MW is no Sexton and Dykes is no Leach. I can remember Leach and got to be honest my Father always shouted abuse at him so I did.too. Alan Wilkes was another frustrating player who was similar in that he divided the fan base. Despite many other opinions I see now Simon Barker was another who very limited in my book but rated by many. Barker was a good player under Don Howe but again he focused on his strengths. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2020 16:29:26 GMT
My memory ain’t the best 73 but don’t think Ferdinand got too many chances before being shipped off to Turkey and when he returned looked great and cemented a place. with a brace against the scum ?
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Post by 1973ranger on Dec 30, 2020 17:08:38 GMT
My memory ain’t the best 73 but don’t think Ferdinand got too many chances before being shipped off to Turkey and when he returned looked great and cemented a place. with a brace against the scum ? Lacked belief and Gerry and Butch gave him that, We had Colin Clarke and Falco around that time who were proven players at that time. Les always had it but GF was the game changer for him. |
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Post by Stanley75 on Dec 30, 2020 17:43:34 GMT
Reading through this thread there seems a bit of misunderstanding over terms. Ability and talent are different things, not to be confused. Ability CAN be coached. Raw talent cannot.
In the case of Dykes, as 73 says, Steve Clarke has proven that with superior tactics, coaching, and crucially, playing players to their strengths, he's been able to get a lot more out of Dykes than Warburton has.
Someone else mentioned Brendan Rogers and the way he brings the best out of Vardy by playing to his strengths, as another good example.
This IMO is where MW fails as a manager. You can't keep laying all the blame on players if they're being poorly coached and drilled. That and the fact he is incredibly inflexible and one-dimensional in his approach, and thus very easy to be out-witted by his managerial counterparts.
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Post by shepherdsmush on Dec 30, 2020 17:59:39 GMT
Not saying he is a world beater but he is better for Scotland than us and does look more dangerous as well. Could it be that Clarke gives him a clear role to carry out with support around him. Agree you cannot teach ability but you can improve what ability you do have with good coaching Scotland have far better players delivering crosses/passes into Dykes than we have (Robertson/Fraser/McGinn/Tierney) of course he's going to be better with the service he'll get.
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Post by rscot on Dec 30, 2020 18:24:31 GMT
Reading through this thread there seems a bit of misunderstanding over terms. Ability and talent are different things, not to be confused. Ability CAN be coached. Raw talent cannot. In the case of Dykes, as 73 says, Steve Clarke has proven that with superior tactics, coaching, and crucially, playing players to their strengths, he's been able to get a lot more out of Dykes than Warburton has. Someone else mentioned Brendan Rogers and the way he brings the best out of Vardy by playing to his strengths, as another good example. This IMO is where MW fails as a manager. You can't keep laying all the blame on players if they're being poorly coached and drilled. That and the fact he is incredibly inflexible and one-dimensional in his approach, and thus very easy to be out-witted by his managerial counterparts. It’s a complicated subject but I believe that they do feed into each other, talent and ability. Let’s say for example that I help coach Chair and improve his left foot so that he can use it for short-medium passes and he becomes quite comfortable at finishing with both feet within the 18 yard box. Now sure, it doesn’t make him run any faster or jump any higher but it will open up opportunities that weren’t available to him before, therefore won’t he become more “talented” as an overall football player? These types of improvements have knock on effects, some of them not so obvious. For example if Chair becomes more 2-footed, I’d expect him to become sharper mentally and physically as a player, mentally, because he’s not having to think about working himself into the best position for his right-foot all the time. So that frees up his mind to think about the pass, the shot, the cross, the flick, the feint etc. Not sure if I’m doing a good job of explaining this. |
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Post by Stanley75 on Dec 30, 2020 18:51:05 GMT
Now sure, it doesn’t make him run any faster or jump any higher but it will open up opportunities that weren’t available to him before, therefore won’t he become more “talented” as an overall football player? No, it will turn him into a better player overall as he'll have more strings to his bow. So it means he ends up having greater "ability". Generally they way you define "talent" is gifted i.e. something you're born with and have a natural aptitude for. You're either lucky enough to be born with it, or not. Talent then of course needs to be honed, practiced and refined in order to fully exploit it and realise its true potential. |
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Post by rscot on Dec 30, 2020 18:57:09 GMT
Now sure, it doesn’t make him run any faster or jump any higher but it will open up opportunities that weren’t available to him before, therefore won’t he become more “talented” as an overall football player? No, it will make him become a better player overall as he'll have more strings to his bow. So it means he ends up having greater "ability". Generally they way you define "talent" is gifted i.e. something you're born with and have a natural aptitude for. You're either lucky enough to be born with it, or not. Talent then of course needs to be honed, practiced and refined in order to fully exploit it. Can’t you see how these two are interlinked? How do you unlock this innate talent? Isn’t it by improving your technique, your ability? Do you think Maradonna or George Best just walked onto a football pitch and everything happened for them? |
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Post by Stanley75 on Dec 30, 2020 19:08:14 GMT
No, it will make him become a better player overall as he'll have more strings to his bow. So it means he ends up having greater "ability". Generally they way you define "talent" is gifted i.e. something you're born with and have a natural aptitude for. You're either lucky enough to be born with it, or not. Talent then of course needs to be honed, practiced and refined in order to fully exploit it. Can’t you see how these two are interlinked? How do you unlock this innate talent? Isn’t it by improving your technique, your ability? Do you think Maradonna or George Best just walked onto a football pitch and everything happened for them? Of course they're interlinked. I've not argued against that. Yes, you improve your technique which in turn gives you greater ability. Having great "ability" is a level that you arrive at through a combination of natural talent, hard work and good coaching. The less natural talent you have the harder you have to work on your technique and coaching. Maradona and Best were born with unbelievable talent, but of course they had to work hard on it too in order to rise to the top of the pile. Not as hard of course as someone born with less talent. Ronaldo and Beckham are good examples of players born with incredible talent but who also worked extremely hard at their games to get to the very top. Adel Taarabt would be the perfect example of a player again born with supreme talent but wasted it by being lazy and not working at it. Had he done so he could easily have ended up at Barca or Real as the talent was all there, as so many have said. |
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Post by rscot on Dec 30, 2020 19:25:43 GMT
Ok as you improve your technique it’ll open up vistas that you hadn’t thought about, you’ll begin to see things, think about doing things in a way you wouldn’t have, couldn’t have before. There are intangibles involved in this “magic” if you like.
Anyway the title of the thread is “how do we get the best from Dykes”, my answer in my first post was improve his fundamentals, his technique. I can do it, so I can see it. I have a pretty clear picture (not exact, these things never are) in my mind of what he could become given the proper coaching. Others too, Chair etc, there is potential there, lots of potential in Dykes if you know how to unlock it.
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Post by Stanley75 on Dec 30, 2020 19:37:16 GMT
Ok as you improve your technique it’ll open up vistas that you hadn’t thought about, you’ll begin to see things, think about doing things in a way you wouldn’t have, couldn’t have before. There are intangibles involved in this “magic” if you like. Anyway the title of the thread is “how do we get the best from Dykes”, my answer in my first post was improve his fundamentals, his technique. I can do it, so I can see it. I have a pretty clear picture (not exact, these things never are) in my mind of what he could become given the proper coaching. Others too, Chair etc, there is potential there, lots of potential in Dykes if you know how to unlock it. I fully agree with you that a better coach could get more out of Dykes and Chair. Clarke has shown that for Scotland. Yes he may have better quality team mates there but Clarke is still playing him to his strengths. Otherwise why is he playing Dykes ahead of McBurnie who had a WAY higher transfer value? |
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Post by West Acton on Dec 30, 2020 19:48:49 GMT
Think I’m going cause another debate here but I’m not sure getting game ahead of Mcburnie is any great achievement. Anytime I’ve seen him play he looks god dam awful for club and country
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Post by Shania on Dec 30, 2020 19:49:57 GMT
I was more thinking of how Warburton could get the best out of him "here and now". While at the subject, I would rest him from the start against Luton, I think.
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Post by rscot on Dec 30, 2020 19:50:22 GMT
Ok as you improve your technique it’ll open up vistas that you hadn’t thought about, you’ll begin to see things, think about doing things in a way you wouldn’t have, couldn’t have before. There are intangibles involved in this “magic” if you like. Anyway the title of the thread is “how do we get the best from Dykes”, my answer in my first post was improve his fundamentals, his technique. I can do it, so I can see it. I have a pretty clear picture (not exact, these things never are) in my mind of what he could become given the proper coaching. Others too, Chair etc, there is potential there, lots of potential in Dykes if you know how to unlock it. I fully agree with you that a better coach could get more out of Dykes and Chair. Clarke has shown that for Scotland. Yes he may have better quality team mates there but Clarke is still playing him to his strengths. Otherwise why is he playing Dykes ahead of McBurnie who had a WAY higher transfer value? You see I’m a football man, a real football man, I spent years, decades understanding the football, building up a relationship/understanding with the football. Clarke is an organiser of teams, I’m not, I can do things Clarke can’t, he knows and can do things I can’t. But I’m a football man, I know how to teach and improve football players technique to a very, very high level and I can do it quickly. That’s what I can do and everything springs from that in my mind. When you strip everything away, what are you left with, a player and a football, you want to improve, spend time with the football. |
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Post by BrightonR on Dec 30, 2020 20:01:01 GMT
Surely, as a professional footballer, you absolutely owe it to yourself to make certain that you are as good at every possible aspect of the game as you can be. Even if only from a purely selfish aspect of improving your earning potential. Pretty much everything other than natural speed can be improved upon to a certain degree if you spend enough time working on them.
Lost count of the number of players I’ve read about in the past who stayed behind after training in order to practice things like free kicks and corners. If you can’t consistently hit a dead ball into the same spot time after time, then perhaps you ought to think about staying on the training pitch until you can.
My guess is that hard work and dedication is way beyond some of these useless shits. And the manager is every bit as much to blame for not insisting on it. It’s the idiots job on the line after all, should he not be able to improve them, either himself or with an appropriate coach.
Couple of hours a day, part of which is no doubt warming up and warming down isn’t enough.
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Post by rscot on Dec 30, 2020 20:11:09 GMT
When I was younger I used to be able to run the length of a football pitch at full speed, and I was quick, without the ball hitting the ground. The ball would go from my left to my right, then back again. When I got to the end of the pitch I’d spin around with the ball still in the air and run back again. None of this keeping the ball in the air with my good foot and running with it nonsense
I’d bet my house that the majority of professional football players around just now can’t do that. They can do some nice tricks, I was never that interested in tricks, technique interested me. How many times have you seen a player catch the ball in the nape of his neck and flick it onto his head during a game?
How many times have you seen a player take a bad touch and miscontrol ball when running?
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Post by 1qprdk on Dec 30, 2020 20:19:28 GMT
Beam me up Scotty
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Post by rscot on Dec 30, 2020 20:23:10 GMT
I could still do it now, do you want to put a bet on |
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Post by West Acton on Dec 30, 2020 20:29:51 GMT
I used to be a good ball juggler in my day. Girls loved me
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Post by rscot on Dec 30, 2020 20:35:09 GMT
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Post by Timmy Doc on Dec 30, 2020 20:37:58 GMT
If there was some ability in Dykes, surely we would have seen glimses of it no matter who the manager is. Bonne, who is poor, shows always more in 20 minutes than Dykes in 70.
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Post by Hitman34 on Dec 30, 2020 20:41:41 GMT
win more penalties
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Post by West Acton on Dec 30, 2020 20:42:56 GMT
Dykes does have a hard gig because of lack of quality balls we put in box hence why I say he needs bring something else to the table and his game such as holding ball up.
RS knows more about him then me having watching him in Scotland and has suggested that’s not his game which I accept. Our reluctance to put earky balls in box possibly makes him look worse then he actually is, giving him benefit of the doubt, but as just said pens aside not seen anything from him
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Post by acricketer on Dec 30, 2020 20:44:15 GMT
In his "Look at me! " Youtube video before he got here he ran around an awful lot more than he does for us.
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Post by rscot on Dec 30, 2020 20:45:24 GMT
I only seen the highlights yesterday, but I’m sure that Dykes put Chair through 1-1 with the keeper. I’m pretty sure that he made a tackle in midfield that lead to a pass to Chair again, where if he had the pace or a left foot could’ve lead to a goal. He did make contributions, obviously not as much as we’d like or want. If you get his 1st touch up to par, everything comes from that, you’d see a big improvement over a short period of time.
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Post by Shania on Dec 30, 2020 20:48:38 GMT
I just read on the Hatters forum that they fear Dykes`s aerial threat and BOS`s raw power  |
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Post by rscot on Dec 30, 2020 20:53:13 GMT
Dykes does have a hard gig because of lack of quality balls we put in box hence why I say he needs bring something else to the table and his game such as holding ball up. RS knows more about him then me having watching him in Scotland and has suggested that’s not his game which I accept. Our reluctance to put earky balls in box possibly makes him look worse then he actually is, giving him benefit of the doubt, but as just said pens aside not seen anything from him He is good at holding the ball up, but he wants to be doing it around the edge of the 18 yard box. If you look at his early games for QPR, he’s loitering around the edge of the 18 yard line, on the shoulder of the last defender, all the fckin time. The midfield 3(chair, Willock, BOS etc)for whatever reason done everything but pass the ball into his feet. That’s where he wants to hold the ball up and link up with the guy who passed the ball who should continue his run into the box or another of the midfielders breaking into the box or he might spin the defender and go into the box himself, take a shot, link up with a runner. But he was in position all the time. The 4-2-3-1, that’s how it usually works. But it’s not just Dykes, none of those midfield 3 were assisting each other either. |
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Post by rscot on Dec 30, 2020 21:07:48 GMT
In the middle 1/3 he doesn’t want to be “holding the ball” he doesn’t want to be stationary, he wants to lay the ball off, turn (preferably at the same time) and hit the 18 yard line, he has the pace, mobility to do that. Maybe he is needing to adapt to defenders being bigger, stronger, maybe he’s needing to put a couple of pounds of muscle on, you would need to ask him. From the bits and pieces I’ve seen that seems to be where he’s having the most trouble with his 1st touch, when he’s trying to lay it off and move. You’ve not seen the other part of his game because whenever he’s been on the 18 yard line and ready to receive the ball to feet , it’s not been played to him
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Post by 1qprdk on Dec 30, 2020 21:12:44 GMT
I could still do it now, do you want to put a bet on Look, rscot, I believe whatever you say. Hope you are helping a lot of pro footballers in Scotland to get better, and that you get paid well doing so. And when circumstances improve and travelling is safe again, I hope you swing by Harlington and improve our lot too in your spare time. Happy new year. |
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