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Post by Hitman34 on Jul 11, 2021 23:01:24 GMT
Rubbish bill. Southgate just said that to protect the bottle jobs.
Even walking off, he turned to shaw who asked him something and you can clearly read southgates lips when he said ā he did not want to take oneā.
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Post by 1973ranger on Jul 11, 2021 23:13:32 GMT
Southgate did not help the players tonight as Croatia 3 years ago all over again where he never reacts to any changes that are happening on the pitch. Great start and looked the better side so much so Immobile was subbed after an hour yet he allowed them to dominate and dictate how the going was going. In the last two tournaments he has only ever won games that he should have.
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awin
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Post by awin on Jul 11, 2021 23:21:52 GMT
Bollocks.
I never understand teams sitting deep and inviting pressure. Hate it when itās QPR and hate it when itās England.
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Post by 1973ranger on Jul 11, 2021 23:26:03 GMT
Bollocks. I never understand teams sitting deep and inviting pressure. Hate it when itās QPR and hate it when itās England. Very negative tactically and cost us again. |
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Post by Bill on Jul 11, 2021 23:30:30 GMT
Rubbish bill. Southgate just said that to protect the bottle jobs. Even walking off, he turned to shaw who asked him something and you can clearly read southgates lips when he said ā he did not want to take oneā. Well he is the manager,is he not? |
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Post by Tarbie on Jul 11, 2021 23:36:49 GMT
Gonna point the blame at a few now. Southgate got it all wrong from 45 mins on. There for the taking and England parked the bus instead. Ridiculous against a good side like Italy. And then when the subs happened it was too late and not even right. Should have put 1 of Grealish or Foden down the middle and tried to change the game.
Biggest gripe though is why so many senior players left a youngster like Saka to take the last pen. Where was Sterling? Utter melt!
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Post by Stanley75 on Jul 12, 2021 0:52:20 GMT
Yep agree with most of the comments. Southgate lost this game to the tactically more astute Mancini. Our players aren't really inferior to theirs but the way we set up, our subs, our penalties, our failure to adapt to their changes - all were. We made the perfect start. From there we had an advantage to grind them down and kill the game off. But instead we allowed them back in and it was inevitable they'd score. From there on they played the perfect game orchestrated by Mancini with his tactical changes and subs. Southgate did nothing to respond and that was our downfall.
Fortune favours the brave and Mancini was by far the braver.
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72bus
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Post by 72bus on Jul 12, 2021 0:56:56 GMT
GS said they were picked before the game to take pens . Everyone could see that sako was overawed and the game was passing him by . No way should of he taken spot kick .kind of used to England š“ó §ó ¢ó „ó ®ó §ó æ never getting over the line so hurts less every tournament. QPR are my 1st love hate us losing
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Post by alanwycombe on Jul 12, 2021 7:09:03 GMT
While the country is doing that very British/English thing of celebrating losing there is another valid point of view. Yes, fantastic achievement to have got to the final, and to go down having given a top performance is just sport, but not seizing the opportunity is exactly why we donāt win anything. We never had a shot for 88 mins after Shawās goal and we just got deeper and deeper second half. Mount was a passenger but Grealish would have given Italy a new problem, created going forward and certainly would have won plenty of free kicks. Massive error from the new Messiah if he thought we could hold a 1-0 against Italy without changing anything.
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Post by Tarbie on Jul 12, 2021 7:39:37 GMT
Totally agree Al. Trying to park the bus like that and inviting wave upon wave of Italian pressure was madness. Had them on the rack in the first half and England really needed to find a way to keep that pressure on.
From early in the 2nd half the game was calling out for Grealish. Just stick him in the middle of the pitch and give him the ball. Give the Italian defence something to keep them honest. Instead when he finally does come on Grealish spends most of the remaining time on the clock stood out wide.
Awful set of penalties too. With the benefit of hindsight, Southgate will regret having 2 players come off the bench and take a pen having hardly kicked a ball in the tournament. And just cos you take a good pen in training doesn't mean you're the right guy to take a kick in a final in front of a packed stadium.
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Post by Hitman34 on Jul 12, 2021 7:46:24 GMT
Playing teams like shitland and Croatia, beating a washed up Germany in the 2nd rd. then Qf against Ukraine and semi against Denmark.
With the likes of Spain, Holland, Belgium, France, Portugal all avoided.
Along with playing all but 1 game at home, was it really that great of achievement?
The way I see it, apart from Ukraine, we scraped through every other game just to get to the final.
I do not follow the narrative of oh how great we are and all this crap of going one step further next year.
We are a very average team with a fair share of bottle jobs in the squad.
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Post by Tarbie on Jul 12, 2021 7:51:13 GMT
Hits, they had a very good tournament. With better tactics they'd have won the final too.
Agree on the bottle jobs though. I think its an utter disgrace that some "senior pros" ducked penalties and let a kid take the deciding one.
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Post by alanwycombe on Jul 12, 2021 7:52:28 GMT
Playing teams like shitland and Croatia, beating a washed up Germany in the 2nd rd. then Qf against Ukraine and semi against Denmark. With the likes of Spain, Holland, Belgium, France, Portugal all avoided. Along with playing all but 1 game at home, was it really that great of achievement? The way I see it, apart from Ukraine, we scraped through every other game just to get to the final. I do not follow the narrative of oh how great we are and all this crap of going one step further next year. We are a very average team with a fair share of bottle jobs in the squad. A lot of truth in that. |
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Post by alanwycombe on Jul 12, 2021 7:54:35 GMT
Wouldnāt bet against getting Italy in the WC groupš Itās a funny old game as Greavsie once said.
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Post by 1973ranger on Jul 12, 2021 8:02:57 GMT
Hits, they had a very good tournament. With better tactics they'd have won the final too. Agree on the bottle jobs though. I think its an utter disgrace that some "senior pros" ducked penalties and let a kid take the deciding one. Paul Ince, Darren Anderton and Steve Mcmanaman did the same in Euro 96. The biggest bottle job last night was Southgate himself. Too scared to lose and not brave enough to win it. Playing a final at Wembley is as good as it could be yet we parked the bus and hoped we would cling on. Sad thing is Croatia 3 year ago was the same as last night. |
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Post by Tarbie on Jul 12, 2021 8:14:48 GMT
The news this morning is full of stories of fans behaving badly and players being racially abused in social media.
Normal service is resumed I guess!
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Post by hal9thou on Jul 12, 2021 8:16:07 GMT
Hits, they had a very good tournament. With better tactics they'd have won the final too. Agree on the bottle jobs though. I think its an utter disgrace that some "senior pros" ducked penalties and let a kid take the deciding one. Paul Ince, Darren Anderton and Steve Mcmanaman did the same in Euro 96. The biggest bottle job last night was Southgate himself. Too scared to lose and not brave enough to win it. Playing a final at Wembley is as good as it could be yet we parked the bus and hoped we would cling on. Sad thing is Croatia 3 year ago was the same as last night. This. Lost the game with the set up - awful tactical dogs breakfast. Writing on wall before kick off. Southgate keeps getting found out when the stakes are raised. |
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Post by Stanley75 on Jul 12, 2021 8:18:02 GMT
Yes, agree Southgate was the biggest culprit. At 1-0 up and dominating a game against a savvy team like that in the early stages, it's clear the best tactic would be to go for the jugular and kill them off. We have the players to have done that. Instead he bottled it, then as soon we let them back in and saw how much they dominated possession the writing was clearly on the wall with his lack of response and failure to utilise his bench.
He waited WAY too late to bring Grealish on and no other meaningful subs were made in the entire 120 mins. The Henderson one was defensive and fearful. By comparison look how much better use Mancini made of his bench even AFTER they equalised.
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Post by Tarbie on Jul 12, 2021 8:28:38 GMT
And let's be honest Stan, Southgate had much more on the bench to work with than Mancini. As you say, fearful, negative substations on the whole and waited way too late to make them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2021 8:43:35 GMT
Scandalous to not send Grealish on in place of Mount earlier
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Post by Shania on Jul 12, 2021 8:58:55 GMT
From a more neutral point of view: Why oh why, not play Grealish from the start?
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Post by hal9thou on Jul 12, 2021 9:10:22 GMT
From a more neutral point of view: Why oh why, not play Grealish from the start .One word: fear. England played scared, sat way too deep with wrong set up. There are a lot of managers smarter than Southgate who are young enough to be in the frame should he ever leave . I can't imagine Graham Potter or Eddie Howe setting up like Southgate did last night. Southgate is an FA pin up boy, they probably think this tournament constitutes success, so they wont change anything. |
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Post by Corbray on Jul 12, 2021 9:11:17 GMT
tactics let us down massively last night, and i'm mot saying that with the benefit of hindsight as it was glaringly obvious to EVERYONE that changes had to be made around the 60 minute mark.
the 343 worked for the first half but italy came out raring to go in the 2nd and dominated possession and pretty much set up a summer adventure camp in our box. only luck, good interceptions and chiesa being injured kept them from scoring.
moving to a 4 at the back happened far too late and should have happened earlier. saka coming on was an utterly foolish move, ask ANYONE in the world who they'd rather bring on out of saka, foden, rashford, sancho or grealish and every one of them would pick one of the latter four.
mount did nothing in the game, i've seen more of an impact from conor washington. rice shouldn't have been subbed off. sterling was having zero impact on the game also and should have come off.
when we moved to a 4231 it should have been a complete overhaul of the side with trippier, mount and sterling coming off for sancho, grealish and foden. players that could really take the ball forward and who worked hard.
southgate let the entire nation down last night and only has himself to blame for our loss. getting to the final is great but the application gareth showed and his decisions were quite frankly abysmal.
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Post by 2Loftus on Jul 12, 2021 9:22:11 GMT
F*cking hell, Southgate's suddenly a wanker??
Good grief, if we'd won you'd have wanted to bear his children.
I despair.
The better team won on the night, we were lucky to get to penalties.
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Post by 1qprdk on Jul 12, 2021 9:22:35 GMT
Thought it looked like a dangerous game to play park the bus almost from the first goal onwards. Strange GS couldn't see that. Oh well, better luck next time guys.
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Post by Corbray on Jul 12, 2021 9:26:18 GMT
F*cking hell, Southgate's suddenly a wanker?? Good grief, if we'd won you'd have wanted to bear his children. I despair. The better team won on the night, we were lucky to get to penalties. not a wanker at all, he did a great job getting us to the final but there's no denying that he was tactically inept last night and got the substitutions, or lack of them, completely wrong. england arguebly have the most talented attacking depth in world football and to bring on saka whilst persevering with an underperforming mount was a joke. if warbs did the same we'd rightfully be calling him out for it. he left it far too long and did too little too late. i don't begrudge the penalty takers but we should have done everything possible to avoid penalties. |
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Post by Stanley75 on Jul 12, 2021 9:56:06 GMT
F*cking hell, Southgate's suddenly a wanker?? Straw man |
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Post by 2Loftus on Jul 12, 2021 10:02:48 GMT
F*cking hell, Southgate's suddenly a wanker?? Straw man Not sure what you mean?? |
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Post by Stanley75 on Jul 12, 2021 10:04:01 GMT
I mean your response is a straw man argument, if you read through most of the detailed and considered responses. |
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Post by 1973ranger on Jul 12, 2021 10:08:46 GMT
Tactically he is not good enough as shown by 2 fine line defeats in a semi and a final. Both games followed the same path yet nothing changed.
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