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Post by Timmy Doc on Jan 17, 2022 13:41:53 GMT
#ManCity lead the race for QPR striker Sinclair Armstrong (18). @mancity would intend to send the Ireland U19 international either on loan, or to one of their City Football Group clubs for a few years before considering him for first-team action. [@nizaarkinsella/@goal] It looks like that's an old article from one year ago Timmy, when googling it. Do you have an up to date link? |
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Post by Corbray on Jan 17, 2022 13:47:44 GMT
What recent track record Corbs? Eze. Maybe Chair, but jury is out whether or not he’s prem. I think we kid ourselves that we’ve got these youngsters coming through - why aren’t they on our bench when MW moans about having a small squad? What has S D-M got to do to get a few minutes? If we trust MW’s judgement then they aren’t good enough. If Man City can see Armstrong as a future player we should be involving him in the first team squad not maybe flogging him off and then buy another Dykes. He’d still be worth a few quid if we get the pleasure of seeing him for a year or two. over the past 4/5 years there's a number of player's we've signed/brought through the academy who've only gotten better since joining. eze, chair, manning, furlong, lumley, BOS and even willock tbh all off the top of my head. we defo have a good reputation for developing players so i wouldn't be surprised to see armstrong stay to continue his development |
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Post by alanwycombe on Jan 17, 2022 13:58:26 GMT
What recent track record Corbs? Eze. Maybe Chair, but jury is out whether or not he’s prem. I think we kid ourselves that we’ve got these youngsters coming through - why aren’t they on our bench when MW moans about having a small squad? What has S D-M got to do to get a few minutes? If we trust MW’s judgement then they aren’t good enough. If Man City can see Armstrong as a future player we should be involving him in the first team squad not maybe flogging him off and then buy another Dykes. He’d still be worth a few quid if we get the pleasure of seeing him for a year or two. over the past 4/5 years there's a number of player's we've signed/brought through the academy who've only gotten better since joining. eze, chair, manning, furlong, lumley, BOS and even willock tbh all off the top of my head. we defo have a good reputation for developing players so i wouldn't be surprised to see armstrong stay to continue his development Not convinced by some of those mate- even Furlong, who I would have back here tomorrow, had his fair share of detractors and BOS played over 70 games for Blackpool. I hope you’re right and Armstrong is good and stays and plays. Some of my most enjoyable memories of this club are watching young players make it, Clement, Gillard, Francis, Goddard and Allen to name just a few. |
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Post by Tarbie on Jan 18, 2022 6:13:52 GMT
Thing I don't get about Sinclair Armstrong is if he's good enough to be on the radar of some of these big clubs, why's he not good enough for a game here at 18 years of age?
Personally, if big clubs really are scouting him, I'd just get him playing. He's more likely to stay here if he's getting game time. And it's not like we couldn't use a different option up front.
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Post by alanwycombe on Jan 18, 2022 7:50:16 GMT
Precisely.
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Post by gtleighsr3 on Jan 18, 2022 8:32:45 GMT
Like sterling,left it too late and off he jogged,although in end we got a great deal.
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Post by alanwycombe on Jan 18, 2022 8:40:20 GMT
If Sterling was here now Leighsy we’d have loaned him out to Scunthorpe or Dag and Red😂
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Post by Stanley75 on Jan 18, 2022 9:08:41 GMT
Wasn't is a similar situation with Josh Bowler a few years ago? He made one 15 minute appearance away to Norwich and BOOM he was off to the toffees (which incidentally pretty much ruined him as he was never given a chance to develop).
Slightly different situ with Raheem as he was only about 15/16 iirc when he left.
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Post by alanwycombe on Jan 18, 2022 10:01:35 GMT
The whole youth/player development debate is really interesting. Hoos has stated that the long term wish is to make our academy the aspirational choice for ‘local’ youngsters. Great that he understands it isn’t at the moment unless you support QPR, especially if you’re good enough to be given options of SW6, Bees, Fools - even Watford. Part of that will be the status of the club but also the perception of a path through to the first team one day. That doesn’t exist here. Currently, Kakay is the only true ‘one of our own’ and most people don’t think he’s good enough. The others - Eze, Dieng, Bettache, Chair, S D-M started elsewhere. The Rotherham cup game told me that we don’t have anything behind the first team. MW didn’t pick a near first eleven because he thinks we can win the Cup. If you find that one in a hundred, or maybe more, then surely he should be in or around the first team squad as soon as he is physically able? Learn our style of play. Are we saying someone else can coach him better than we can? I don’t buy this idea that a loan exposes a young player to the rough stuff. If you’re good enough to give opponents a problem you’ll get a whack soon enough whatever league you’re in. Where’s our young CB or LB/LWB? Clearly no one here that MW fancies even putting on the bench. If we haven’t got anyone as good/poor as Dykes coming through then Hoos really has an urgent job on. No one seems to want lend us young players - we didn’t do wonder kid Jack Clarke any good. If Armstrong is any good I reckon we’ll sell him and the conveyor belt is a long way off.
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Post by croydoncaptainjack on Jan 18, 2022 10:24:31 GMT
Wasn't is a similar situation with Josh Bowler a few years ago? He made one 15 minute appearance away to Norwich and BOOM he was off to the toffees (which incidentally pretty much ruined him as he was never given a chance to develop). Slightly different situ with Raheem as he was only about 15/16 iirc when he left. Yes, I was there that day and it was almost a 'Who' moment we normally reserve for our opponents subs. We made good money on him as well. What I would like to add from my own experience is we had a young lad working here last year who was a very good footballer and he said several of the lads he played with were aware of QPR having a much improved reputation for youngsters to go to. It was nice to hear it first hand. |
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Post by hal9thou on Jan 18, 2022 13:31:46 GMT
We're not a club who bring young talent through rapidly. We just don't.
And clearly we're not investing to take the opportunity we have right now.
Add those two things together and you realise the limited extent of the board's ambitions.
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Post by croydoncaptainjack on Jan 18, 2022 13:41:44 GMT
I disagree. We are miles better than say 5-10 years ago.
It is the only business model that is sustainable. The shit or bust dice throw at the prem has worked for some but not many.
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Post by alanwycombe on Jan 18, 2022 13:55:15 GMT
Agree with both of you. We don’t bring young kids through quickly, but that begs the question I raised are they any good? Loaning them out is just kicking the can down the road if they’re not what we want - Shodipo for instance. And CCJ is right about shit or bust. Can’t do that again. Middle way is keeping, and playing, someone like Armstrong - IF he’s any good. Competition for places is no bad thing. There is no competition for back three nor the front three.
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Post by hal9thou on Jan 18, 2022 15:30:54 GMT
And CCJ is right about shit or bust. Can’t do that again.
Re the kids, if they're good enough they're old enough. No one is suggesting we play kids who aren't up to it. But the club mentality is not to risk even those who could make it. Which, combined with a lack of investment, leaves us treading water. At best. |
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Jan 18, 2022 15:41:29 GMT
Going to be controversial, but I am not convinced by the value in us coaching all these real youngsters (unless as a bit of community outreach, which prob does have value). Its more like one in 10,000 that makes it (Sterling, Bowler, can't think of anyone else). And Bowler is "only" playing for Blackpool. Wouldn't the money be better spent on scouting and then nicking from under the noses of other clubs the next Eze or Ilias? That's what seems to work for us, taking someone's semi-assembled product if you like, not starting with thousands of newly build parts and trying to turn them into something useful because I just don't see any evidence that we can make that work for us.
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spongeparr
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Post by spongeparr on Jan 18, 2022 17:07:07 GMT
Track record doesn't mean signing for QPR aged 3 and with us for life. Recently, we have bought young players and given them the chance to play first team football. Do they all work out? No. Do they drop down? Some do but recently, under 23 we have given game time to and done semi well are:
Dunne, Dickie, Manning, BOS, Kelman, Chair, Eze, Kakay, Hamalanananan, Shodipo, Bettache, Dieng (might be a bit old), Furlong.
Thats why younger players want to come here, that's a lot of young players and I have missed obvious ones.
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Post by gtleighsr3 on Jan 18, 2022 17:12:12 GMT
Going to be controversial, but I am not convinced by the value in us coaching all these real youngsters (unless as a bit of community outreach, which prob does have value). Its more like one in 10,000 that makes it (Sterling, Bowler, can't think of anyone else). And Bowler is "only" playing for Blackpool. Wouldn't the money be better spent on scouting and then nicking from under the noses of other clubs the next Eze or Ilias? That's what seems to work for us, taking someone's semi-assembled product if you like, not starting with thousands of newly build parts and trying to turn them into something useful because I just don't see any evidence that we can make that work for us. My eldest when at sarfend was wanted by spurs and orient too. When went sarfend the whole group got told lucky if a 100 will make in nation wide. |
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Jan 18, 2022 18:10:39 GMT
Yeah, that's the reality. Just not sure what we get out of it tbh.
See our under 18s have just been clobbered by the mighty Charlton 6-3 while our U23s (despite having three players in and around the first team) lost 4-2 the other day to Ipswich.
And this seems a fairly typical scenario.
I mean, how bad must they be? Is there any prospect of these players making it in the Championship with us? If not where is the value to us?
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Post by gtleighsr3 on Jan 18, 2022 18:20:33 GMT
Ipswich a great academy tbf my boys sun league side smashed charlton in a friendly b4 the whole team got scouted and signed lol.
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Post by Tarbie on Jan 18, 2022 19:28:22 GMT
This whole idea of "bringing a player through" is kinda nonsense to be honest guys. Most players bounce around clubs as youngsters. A few people mentioned Bowler as one of our own. Pretty sure he was only with us a couple of years after Fulham let him go. Sinclair Armstrong we only signed from the Irish league a year ago. Rio Ferdinand was with us as a teenager, does that mean he's one of our own and not West Ham?
In my opinion, a decent youth set-up at our level will bring a few players through the whole way from their early teens, but more often than not will rely on their scouting network and picking up talent that other clubs decided not to take a punt on.
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Post by hal9thou on Jan 18, 2022 20:00:40 GMT
This whole idea of "bringing a player through" is kinda nonsense to be honest guys. Well Sotton managed it. It is achievable but you have to have an infrastructure in place which really works. still think if they're good enough they're old enough, but it is a bloody big if... (and still think we wont go up with zilch investment in playing staff beyond what we have. arguably the biggest financial risk is doing nothing.) |
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Post by Tarbie on Jan 18, 2022 20:04:49 GMT
Not being funny mate, but Southampton have got a huge catchment area and virtually a monopoly on all young players living from Fareham to Salisbury. Only other half decent sides anywhere near them are Bournemouth and Portsmouth.
In London, throw a stone in any direction hard enough and you'll hit a half decent football club.
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Jan 18, 2022 20:10:05 GMT
This whole idea of "bringing a player through" is kinda nonsense to be honest guys. Well Sotton managed it. It is achievable but you have to have an infrastructure in place which really works. still think if they're good enough they're old enough, but it is a bloody big if... (and still think we wont go up with zilch investment in playing staff beyond what we have. arguably the biggest financial risk is doing nothing.) With very limited budgets we can't do both - ie invest heavily in youth and then go out in Jan and splash money on this or that signing. Fans say they want investment in youth but when it comes down to it most fans are as short termist as any manager and want a signing to impact the first team. |
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Post by West Acton on Jan 18, 2022 21:13:05 GMT
Warburton comments on this are spot on and funny
We’re in safe hands
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Post by alanwycombe on Jan 19, 2022 7:27:21 GMT
This whole idea of "bringing a player through" is kinda nonsense to be honest guys. Most players bounce around clubs as youngsters. A few people mentioned Bowler as one of our own. Pretty sure he was only with us a couple of years after Fulham let him go. Sinclair Armstrong we only signed from the Irish league a year ago. Rio Ferdinand was with us as a teenager, does that mean he's one of our own and not West Ham? In my opinion, a decent youth set-up at our level will bring a few players through the whole way from their early teens, but more often than not will rely on their scouting network and picking up talent that other clubs decided not to take a punt on. A couple of years ago there was a poster on here called Esoxlucius who, judging from his posts, used to watch youth games and he spoke highly of three or four young players. We’ve never seen any of them anywhere near the first team - maybe a few mins of a league cup first round game. Sort of reinforces my question about being good enough and certainly highlights Hoos intention of making our academy a top choice for kids instead of us just picking up those who don’t make it elsewhere. |
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Post by Stanley75 on Jan 19, 2022 8:18:56 GMT
Warburton comments on this are spot on and funny We’re in safe hands Where's this Wests? I'd like to hear it. |
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Post by hal9thou on Jan 19, 2022 10:10:59 GMT
Not being funny mate, but Southampton have got a huge catchment area and virtually a monopoly on all young players living from Fareham to Salisbury. Only other half decent sides anywhere near them are Bournemouth and Portsmouth. In London, throw a stone in any direction hard enough and you'll hit a half decent football club. But does it really work like that anymore? You have huge clubs poaching everywhere these days. The truth about Southampton is that they invested in their academy system years ago, got in early doors. They're a well run club. Nothing that this board, DoF etc have done has convinced me that there is a long term strategy beyond keeping us afloat, treading water, possibly with a view to a sale. It could be worse, and I'll take it all back if someone pulls their finger out of their arse and does some sensible business before the end of the month. Opportunities like this dont come along every season. |
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Post by West Acton on Jan 19, 2022 10:29:23 GMT
Warburton comments on this are spot on and funny We’re in safe hands Where's this Wests? I'd like to hear it. get west London news report |
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Post by Stanley75 on Jan 19, 2022 10:39:52 GMT
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Post by alanwycombe on Jan 19, 2022 11:01:14 GMT
Not being funny mate, but Southampton have got a huge catchment area and virtually a monopoly on all young players living from Fareham to Salisbury. Only other half decent sides anywhere near them are Bournemouth and Portsmouth. In London, throw a stone in any direction hard enough and you'll hit a half decent football club. But does it really work like that anymore? You have huge clubs poaching everywhere these days. The truth about Southampton is that they invested in their academy system years ago, got in early doors. They're a well run club. Nothing that this board, DoF etc have done has convinced me that there is a long term strategy beyond keeping us afloat, treading water, possibly with a view to a sale. It could be worse, and I'll take it all back if someone pulls their finger out of their arse and does some sensible business before the end of the month. Opportunities like this dont come along every season. On the face of it, it is hard to argue that last para. Boro have seen that and brought in a couple of sensible loans. Dark horses for me. Don’t worry, we’ll do it next season is nonsense. If we stay in Champ we’ll have to sell players and go backwards - just as it looks like we’re on the right track. |
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