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Post by alanwycombe on Nov 27, 2023 9:53:23 GMT
And I forgot “the best finisher at the club”. Give him some games. Donkey has had plenty.
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Post by Rangers77 on Nov 27, 2023 10:27:57 GMT
Kelman until January. Even if it's a punt. I'd prefer to play with ten men than play Dykes.
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Post by jfrabbit on Nov 27, 2023 11:00:15 GMT
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Post by acricketer on Nov 27, 2023 11:04:17 GMT
Let's hope Stoke don't score 2
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Nov 27, 2023 11:30:58 GMT
And where is that 2m coming from? Relegation is gonna cost at least that much. Our off park spending is through the roof vs many of our rivals. If we're serious, we have to be rid of everyone not directly contributing to the first team squad. Been going on about this for ages.... I think our income has actually gone up from increased media rights and sponsorship changes. £2m isnt like sanctions busting money, if they focussed they could balance the books on that amount. We go round in circles on FFP as you seem to think its no big thing or we will be fine - lets agree to disagree. I have previously responded to your point about getting rid of all the hangers on: yes you are right and its symptomatic of how badly run we are, but a) the vast bulk of the salary burden is from players (because they are paid so much more) so getting rid of 10 back room staff would be a useful saving but probably not a game changer, b) sacking staff actually costs you more in the short term before it saves you money, so not a quick fix. Re sponsorship money: from what I have read that was more to pay off Ainsworth and his staff. We also don't know if the EFL will accept this as income, I mean "the Bhati Family Stand" or whatever, it is pretty transparent, its not even promoting a company, its a clear attempt to artificially boost the club's P&L, at least they should have called it the Mittel Steel Stand or some such. You say spend 2m as if its chicken feed. Not often in our recent history have we been able to spend that kind of money on a player. Wd be absolutely delighted to be proved wrong and you can shove it down my throat in Jan if so...
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Post by Stanley75 on Nov 27, 2023 12:09:21 GMT
The thing I really don’t get with the Donkey debate is that Beale was the only one to try anything different. Surely the club sees what we see MC has made it very clear that the whole squad got a clean slate when he arrived. He's been in charge for three games now and has picked Dykes for them all. So, based on his comments, you can at least see the reasoning behind him doing that. HOWEVER - I think it's also pretty clear that we won't see this continue much longer considering what we all know (and what MC must have assessed by now) about Dykes. That is unless Marti, by some management miracle, somehow manages to up his scoring ratio.
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Post by acricketer on Nov 27, 2023 22:13:48 GMT
So Dykes is zero for zero. Things are looking up!
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Post by Corbray on Nov 27, 2023 23:12:19 GMT
one possible avenue to raise funds, albeit not a good one but it depends how desparate we are is to sell our sell on fee for eze back to crystal palace. southampton did it with bale a few years ago irc.
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Post by hal9thou on Nov 27, 2023 23:42:52 GMT
Relegation is gonna cost at least that much. Our off park spending is through the roof vs many of our rivals. If we're serious, we have to be rid of everyone not directly contributing to the first team squad. Been going on about this for ages.... I think our income has actually gone up from increased media rights and sponsorship changes. £2m isnt like sanctions busting money, if they focussed they could balance the books on that amount. We go round in circles on FFP as you seem to think its no big thing or we will be fine - lets agree to disagree. I have previously responded to your point about getting rid of all the hangers on: yes you are right and its symptomatic of how badly run we are, but a) the vast bulk of the salary burden is from players (because they are paid so much more) so getting rid of 10 back room staff would be a useful saving but probably not a game changer, b) sacking staff actually costs you more in the short term before it saves you money, so not a quick fix. Re sponsorship money: from what I have read that was more to pay off Ainsworth and his staff. We also don't know if the EFL will accept this as income, I mean "the Bhati Family Stand" or whatever, it is pretty transparent, its not even promoting a company, its a clear attempt to artificially boost the club's P&L, at least they should have called it the Mittel Steel Stand or some such. You say spend 2m as if its chicken feed. Not often in our recent history have we been able to spend that kind of money on a player. Wd be absolutely delighted to be proved wrong and you can shove it down my throat in Jan if so... But you're ignoring the cost of relegation...... Unless, of course, it's actually part of the plan, since in that event no FFP applies and you can rebuild completely (see Wrexham). We were so bad under Ainsworth that some people had seriously begun to consider this might actually be the case, it came up at the fans meeting and tbf they took it seriously, while naturally denying it. I guess what I'm saying is that doing nothing to remedy the situation come January really would mean we were playing with fire financially. Because you can't guarantee you're going to come straight back up again. let's say you're right and I'm wrong - which may well be the case - how the fuck do we get out of this scenario? Please enlighten me.
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Nov 28, 2023 9:45:30 GMT
We go round in circles on FFP as you seem to think its no big thing or we will be fine - lets agree to disagree. I have previously responded to your point about getting rid of all the hangers on: yes you are right and its symptomatic of how badly run we are, but a) the vast bulk of the salary burden is from players (because they are paid so much more) so getting rid of 10 back room staff would be a useful saving but probably not a game changer, b) sacking staff actually costs you more in the short term before it saves you money, so not a quick fix. Re sponsorship money: from what I have read that was more to pay off Ainsworth and his staff. We also don't know if the EFL will accept this as income, I mean "the Bhati Family Stand" or whatever, it is pretty transparent, its not even promoting a company, its a clear attempt to artificially boost the club's P&L, at least they should have called it the Mittel Steel Stand or some such. You say spend 2m as if its chicken feed. Not often in our recent history have we been able to spend that kind of money on a player. Wd be absolutely delighted to be proved wrong and you can shove it down my throat in Jan if so... But you're ignoring the cost of relegation...... Unless, of course, it's actually part of the plan, since in that event no FFP applies and you can rebuild completely (see Wrexham). We were so bad under Ainsworth that some people had seriously begun to consider this might actually be the case, it came up at the fans meeting and tbf they took it seriously, while naturally denying it. I guess what I'm saying is that doing nothing to remedy the situation come January really would mean we were playing with fire financially. Because you can't guarantee you're going to come straight back up again. let's say you're right and I'm wrong - which may well be the case - how the fuck do we get out of this scenario? Please enlighten me. Thanks for response. I would argue you are playing with fire either way, but with FFP you are playing with an even bigger fire. No way would relegation be part of the plan but it might be unavoidable. Last time breach of FFP was a 40m fine (reduced on appeal but still massive and something we have never recovered from). Everton has just got a 10 point deduction and are already complaining that is harsh compared to the financial fine QPR got. Second offence fine/ punishment? Your guess is as good as mine but think it could be off the scale. If we go down you are right - no guarantee we bounce back. Our infrastructure is borderline Championship/ League One. But another serious run-in with the authorities over FFP and I think that could threaten the existence of the club. I don't have a magic formula for getting out of this clusterfuck (who does? Not the board, not anyone), other than developing our own players and becoming more sustainable. But that is a long-term solution and seems beyond us. IF (and none of us know for sure) we can't get the recruits we need in Jan for financial reasons then we clearly would be going down as El Tel rising from the grave couldn't turn around this starting 11. The damage has been done and it is at least possible (not inevitable) that there is no way out of this. Much as we might rage against this as fans, it doesn't make the problems go away.
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Post by hal9thou on Nov 28, 2023 12:04:09 GMT
But you're ignoring the cost of relegation...... Unless, of course, it's actually part of the plan, since in that event no FFP applies and you can rebuild completely (see Wrexham). We were so bad under Ainsworth that some people had seriously begun to consider this might actually be the case, it came up at the fans meeting and tbf they took it seriously, while naturally denying it. I guess what I'm saying is that doing nothing to remedy the situation come January really would mean we were playing with fire financially. Because you can't guarantee you're going to come straight back up again. let's say you're right and I'm wrong - which may well be the case - how the fuck do we get out of this scenario? Please enlighten me. Thanks for response. I would argue you are playing with fire either way, but with FFP you are playing with an even bigger fire. No way would relegation be part of the plan but it might be unavoidable. Last time breach of FFP was a 40m fine (reduced on appeal but still massive and something we have never recovered from). Everton has just got a 10 point deduction and are already complaining that is harsh compared to the financial fine QPR got. Second offence fine/ punishment? Your guess is as good as mine but think it could be off the scale. If we go down you are right - no guarantee we bounce back. Our infrastructure is borderline Championship/ League One. But another serious run-in with the authorities over FFP and I think that could threaten the existence of the club. I don't have a magic formula for getting out of this clusterfuck (who does? Not the board, not anyone), other than developing our own players and becoming more sustainable. But that is a long-term solution and seems beyond us. IF (and none of us know for sure) we can't get the recruits we need in Jan for financial reasons then we clearly would be going down as El Tel rising from the grave couldn't turn around this starting 11. The damage has been done and it is at least possible (not inevitable) that there is no way out of this. Much as we might rage against this as fans, it doesn't make the problems go away. Sorry this is all getting so quotey, but I dont want to edit anything you said, since its kind of a holistic view. And rightly so. However.... Just a couple of points. You can't compare what has happened to Everton - who lost 25m over the fairly generous FFP Prem limit - with any Championship club exceeding limits by say 0.5m. Since we were sanctioned, FFP rules have changed - notably re proportionality - and when I looked at the regs at the end of last year there was no mention of repeat offenders. They have to abide by what is in their own rulebook. Also, I think you'll find that Everton fans are mainly pissed off about is the fact that Man City's multiple breaches have gone unpunished. That may change, but thats what 's pissing them off - our sanction did not relate to prem activity so it is ludicrous to compare anything that happened to us with Everton. I completely agree that setting out to exceed FFP limits is an extremely risky thing to do, but so is relegation. Media money and gate money fall off the edge of a cliff. Then again, I hated FFP long before we walked into it eyes wide shut. It is anti competitive = it maintains the status quo (Man City again) while actively assisting the demise of less fortunate clubs. It has protected no one.
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Nov 28, 2023 13:40:09 GMT
Thanks for response. I would argue you are playing with fire either way, but with FFP you are playing with an even bigger fire. No way would relegation be part of the plan but it might be unavoidable. Last time breach of FFP was a 40m fine (reduced on appeal but still massive and something we have never recovered from). Everton has just got a 10 point deduction and are already complaining that is harsh compared to the financial fine QPR got. Second offence fine/ punishment? Your guess is as good as mine but think it could be off the scale. If we go down you are right - no guarantee we bounce back. Our infrastructure is borderline Championship/ League One. But another serious run-in with the authorities over FFP and I think that could threaten the existence of the club. I don't have a magic formula for getting out of this clusterfuck (who does? Not the board, not anyone), other than developing our own players and becoming more sustainable. But that is a long-term solution and seems beyond us. IF (and none of us know for sure) we can't get the recruits we need in Jan for financial reasons then we clearly would be going down as El Tel rising from the grave couldn't turn around this starting 11. The damage has been done and it is at least possible (not inevitable) that there is no way out of this. Much as we might rage against this as fans, it doesn't make the problems go away. Sorry this is all getting so quotey, but I dont want to edit anything you said, since its kind of a holistic view. And rightly so. However.... Just a couple of points. You can't compare what has happened to Everton - who lost 25m over the fairly generous FFP Prem limit - with any Championship club exceeding limits by say 0.5m. Since we were sanctioned, FFP rules have changed - notably re proportionality - and when I looked at the regs at the end of last year there was no mention of repeat offenders. They have to abide by what is in their own rulebook. Also, I think you'll find that Everton fans are mainly pissed off about is the fact that Man City's multiple breaches have gone unpunished. That may change, but thats what 's pissing them off - our sanction did not relate to prem activity so it is ludicrous to compare anything that happened to us with Everton. I completely agree that setting out to exceed FFP limits is an extremely risky thing to do, but so is relegation. Media money and gate money fall off the edge of a cliff. Then again, I hated FFP long before we walked into it eyes wide shut. It is anti competitive = it maintains the status quo (Man City again) while actively assisting the demise of less fortunate clubs. It has protected no one. Appreciate your further post and good we can have this chat without snarling at each other. You always post thoughtfully even though I sometimes disagree. If I find the article about Everton referencing us I will post it. The point it made (which I wasn't aware of) was that our promotion post the Faurlin scandal had to be approved by the Premier League in the light of our spending breaches in the Championship, hence why it is relevant and why Everton are reportedly using it as a reference point in their appeal. But yes, breaches by City (and Chelsea) dwarf ours, were repeated over years, and there does appear to be double standards. Off-topic but I am hoping media and public pressure will finally see justice catch up with these two, arguably the least loveable clubs in world football. I totally agree that FFP has been disastrous, having almost the opposite of its intended effect. But just because it is disastrous it doesn't mean we can ignore it. It arrived just too late to stop the hyper-spending of a few clubs owned by billionaires but then effectively stopped the clocks and said: "this will be the football hierarchy from now on." A few brilliantly run clubs such as Brentford, Brighton, Luton and Bournemouth have worked round it but even with them there are limits: they will surely hit a glass ceiling and struggle to repeat what we, Forest and Ipswich achieved in the 70s. Back to us, I have very little remaining confidence in our board but surely even they have considered all options? Hoos has talked at length about how we have had to abide by FFP. They must have sought advice on what the likely punishment would be. Derby and Reading didn't exactly flourish by breaking the rules once. I can only conclude the answer came back: "Do you want to be the people who put a 150-year-old club out of business?" Finally (and this is purely my personal impression) even leaving FFP aside, I just get the sense that the board has had enough and lost faith. They have tried every single strategy (except consistency!) and they probably don't have any confidence left that if they were to give a QPR manager 2m quid it would be spent wisely. Since the Fernandes takeover more than a decade ago how many transfers can we honestly call a success? 10%? I saw Kieran Dyer in the news again yesterday - fuck me. We buy that striker and they know we would most likely be back in the same situation in August with manager and fans saying "we need more money". We are a bottomless pit and it seems to me they want out, perhaps now even at the cost of relegation. Please excuse the essay...
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Post by hal9thou on Nov 28, 2023 17:11:23 GMT
Sorry this is all getting so quotey etc If I find the article about Everton referencing us I will post it. The point it made (which I wasn't aware of) was that our promotion post the Faurlin scandal had to be approved by the Premier League in the light of our spending breaches in the Championship, hence why it is relevant and why Everton are reportedly using it as a reference point in their appeal. But yes, breaches by City (and Chelsea) dwarf ours, were repeated over years, and there does appear to be double standards. Off-topic but I am hoping media and public pressure will finally see justice catch up with these two, arguably the least loveable clubs in world football. OK, interesting. So their point is aimed at the FA /EPL. In other words they are basically using that call as precedent. Tbh the whole thing is such a dog's breakfast, they bottled the Everton decision at the end of last season which of course means that the relegated clubs are now demanding heavy compensation. That, imo, should be funded by the governing body and not Everton since the former failed to act in time. Everton have fucked up massively, no question, but as usual those involved with making FFP decisions have also got it wrong. That last sentence we deffo agree on.......
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Nov 28, 2023 19:32:22 GMT
If I find the article about Everton referencing us I will post it. The point it made (which I wasn't aware of) was that our promotion post the Faurlin scandal had to be approved by the Premier League in the light of our spending breaches in the Championship, hence why it is relevant and why Everton are reportedly using it as a reference point in their appeal. But yes, breaches by City (and Chelsea) dwarf ours, were repeated over years, and there does appear to be double standards. Off-topic but I am hoping media and public pressure will finally see justice catch up with these two, arguably the least loveable clubs in world football. OK, interesting. So their point is aimed at the FA /EPL. In other words they are basically using that call as precedent. Tbh the whole thing is such a dog's breakfast, they bottled the Everton decision at the end of last season which of course means that the relegated clubs are now demanding heavy compensation. That, imo, should be funded by the governing body and not Everton since the former failed to act in time. Everton have fucked up massively, no question, but as usual those involved with making FFP decisions have also got it wrong. That last sentence we deffo agree on....... Agreed. In fairness to Everton the only reason they fell foul of FFP was because of govt sanctions against Russians so they had to cancel their stadium sponsorship pronto, which is quite a difficult thing to replace overnight. That said the whole stadium naming rights thing is a complete farce. Either abolish FFP or don't let clubs sponsor their own ground, its a ludicrous loophole.
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Post by Stanley75 on Jan 14, 2024 14:45:00 GMT
A board and club who entered this season signing players in all kinds of other positions, but not a striker. Their reasoning was that we were already covered in that position with Dykes, Armstrong, Kelman and Kolli.
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Post by jfrabbit on Jan 14, 2024 16:15:20 GMT
A board and club who entered this season signing players in all kinds of other positions, but not a striker. Their reasoning was that we were already covered in that position with Dykes, Armstrong, Kelman and Kolli. Every single fan knew what we had upfront was nowhere near good enough, and now the arrogance of the board is going to cost them millions of millions upon millions. Absolutely idiotic decision making yet again from this club.
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Post by Hitman34 on Jan 14, 2024 16:25:13 GMT
A board and club who entered this season signing players in all kinds of other positions, but not a striker. Their reasoning was that we were already covered in that position with Dykes, Armstrong, Kelman and Kolli. First home game, lower loft, hoos was wandering around shaking hands outside the blue and white bar. He came to me and I told him the we need to sign a striker, his response was, he was happy with the spine of the team. I turned to my son, still within ear shot of the yank, and said he will regret it if the club don’t sign a striker. How in the hell can we see the glaring problems with the squad but those who are paid extremely well, cannot see the issues and yet remain on the payroll of the club and the thick owners
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Post by Corbray on Jan 14, 2024 17:05:24 GMT
just remember that millwall bid around 2m for dykes too lol. could have sold him and used the funds for a sunday league player instead
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Post by West Acton on Jan 14, 2024 17:14:24 GMT
Imaging if we go down and we still don’t get a striker in to try and push for promotion
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Post by Stanley75 on Jan 14, 2024 17:29:09 GMT
A board and club who entered this season signing players in all kinds of other positions, but not a striker. Their reasoning was that we were already covered in that position with Dykes, Armstrong, Kelman and Kolli. First home game, lower loft, hoos was wandering around shaking hands outside the blue and white bar. He came to me and I told him the we need to sign a striker, his response was, he was happy with the spine of the team. I turned to my son, still within ear shot of the yank, and said he will regret it if the club don’t sign a striker. How in the hell can we see the glaring problems with the squad but those who are paid extremely well, cannot see the issues and yet remain on the payroll of the club and the thick owners I couldn't agree with you more, and well done for telling Hoos that. He's been told the same at fans meetings. It's not like the fans haven't tried to warn the club about this way in advance, so they can't even use the excuse of hindsight.
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Post by Corbray on Jan 14, 2024 19:04:06 GMT
Imaging if we go down and we still don’t get a striker in to try and push for promotion we'd be fucked although i do think sincs would benefit from a season in league 1. if not langstaff from notts county then jonson clark-harris from peterbrough is the natural option imo. contract up in 6 months and a proven goal machine in league 1.
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Post by Shania on Jan 14, 2024 21:43:38 GMT
Ironically, it was a mistake to get rid of the striker Matt Smith. He did at least have positional sense and is still scoring goals. Kelman doesn't.
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Post by Stanley75 on Mar 29, 2024 21:33:42 GMT
Fantastic win today, but still a bit concerning it's being left to the non-strikers to show them how it's done.
Still, in Marti I trust.
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Post by 1973ranger on Mar 29, 2024 21:37:25 GMT
Fantastic win today, but still a bit concerning it's being left to the non-strikers to show them how it's done. Still, in Marti I trust. Armstrong is our best option but raw as hell. Agree in Marti we trust as he clearly has all the squad involved in getting the results we are. Pleased for both Scorers and the other 2 defenders did well today.
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Post by West Acton on Mar 29, 2024 21:48:31 GMT
Fantastic win today, but still a bit concerning it's being left to the non-strikers to show them how it's done. Still, in Marti I trust. whatever division we end up in we can’t go into next season with this strike force none of them are good enough sadly. Possibly off the bench could do job (donkey aside) but we have to find a striker or two that can slot the ball away.
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Post by jfrabbit on Mar 30, 2024 6:29:19 GMT
How many times have we all said this? It's absolutely ridiculous we'd start a season with the tripe up top that we did.
If we get out of this, I hope it's a massive lesson learned from the club. You need a goal scorer or two or you'll struggle. It's really not rocket science.
I wouldn't sign Frey on a perm. Really do like his effort, work rate and application but, his style, lack of pace and lack of goals is a concern. He's done the job he came in for which was to give us any option up front apart from the useless Jock but apart from that I think he's struggled on the whole.
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Post by Corbray on Mar 30, 2024 6:44:14 GMT
How many times have we all said this? It's absolutely ridiculous we'd start a season with the tripe up top that we did. If we get out of this, I hope it's a massive lesson learned from the club. You need a goal scorer or two or you'll struggle. It's really not rocket science. I wouldn't sign Frey on a perm. Really do like his effort, work rate and application but, his style, lack of ace and lack of goals is a concern. He's done the job he came in for which was to give us any option up front apart from the useless Jock but apart from that I think he's struggled on the whole. if we sell dykes and bring in a starting striker then we actually have good options imo. i like frey's work rate and presence up top. he's never gunna be a top striker at this level but as a guy to soften up defences or bring off the bench he's a pretty good option to have.
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Post by West Acton on Mar 30, 2024 8:31:06 GMT
How many times have we all said this? It's absolutely ridiculous we'd start a season with the tripe up top that we did. If we get out of this, I hope it's a massive lesson learned from the club. You need a goal scorer or two or you'll struggle. It's really not rocket science. I wouldn't sign Frey on a perm. Really do like his effort, work rate and application but, his style, lack of ace and lack of goals is a concern. He's done the job he came in for which was to give us any option up front apart from the useless Jock but apart from that I think he's struggled on the whole. if we sell dykes and bring in a starting striker then we actually have good options imo. i like frey's work rate and presence up top. he's never gunna be a top striker at this level but as a guy to soften up defences or bring off the bench he's a pretty good option to have. I hoped he was the type of player that could soften up a defence but not seen any sign of that. Thought Sanderson had him in his pocket yesterday.
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Mar 30, 2024 12:01:44 GMT
Frey put in such a shift against WBA, maybe in part because he felt bad about the penalty miss. But yesterday he did very little closing down (altho in fairness with the attacking midfield 3 not bothering to help, prob would have been pointless). Unless he is charging round like a human bartering ram there is not much point to him as he is pretty agricultural. He looked knackered - bizarre after international break. Maybe he has been pumping all his energy into his model girlfriend.
The search for our striker continues…
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Post by Corbray on Mar 30, 2024 16:19:34 GMT
frey is still a massive upgrade on dykes, didn't have a great game yesterday but if dykes had put in that performance we'd be saying he had a good game such is dykes uselessness on the pitch lol.
frey at least knows how to lead the line and is always eager to be in the box and on the end of things. fully agree that he's not the answer to our striker woes though although we'd all love to be wrong about that.
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