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Post by stainrodisalegend on Aug 1, 2022 21:20:47 GMT
Just quoting the figure given by our ceo Fine if correct Just wonder why they would do that and for how long. No choice I guess - either they cut spend and we get relegated or they find someone to buy us. Otherwise that’s what it costs to simply stand still in the Championship. Why I think we need to be a little careful telling the board to splurge cash. |
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Post by hubble on Aug 2, 2022 7:57:02 GMT
Which all points to having a better recruitment network, because what we really need is someone cheap, a raw talent maybe, or someone from a lesser-known league abroad. Shania often points out Scandinavian (or is it just Norwegian?) players who might fit the bill, for example.
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Post by sparks on Aug 2, 2022 10:43:23 GMT
I don’t hold too much confidence in our recruitment system (pre MB coming in)
I’m continually impressed by how MK Dons run their club and in particular Liam Sweeting their Sporting Director.
They continually get good players in cheaply and sell them at good money, the same could be said for their quality of loan players they bring in for their league position.
During pre season when their Manager Manning was rumoured to leave, their fans were not bothered at all, as long as Sweeting was kept in his post, and a similar reaction when Scott Twine was sold.
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Aug 2, 2022 14:53:31 GMT
I don’t hold too much confidence in our recruitment system (pre MB coming in) I’m continually impressed by how MK Dons run their club and in particular Liam Sweeting their Sporting Director. They continually get good players in cheaply and sell them at good money, the same could be said for their quality of loan players they bring in for their league position. During pre season when their Manager Manning was rumoured to leave, their fans were not bothered at all, as long as Sweeting was kept in his post, and a similar reaction when Scott Twine was sold. Think our recruitment has definitely improved in the last couple of years. Not saying it’s the best but a clear improvement. Hate to say it but we need someone like Willock to step up and have a big season and sell for big money. That would then give us the funds to buy maybe five young players for smallish amounts. Maybe three make it. Rinse and repeat. At the moment we have literally no money so we are just looking for cast offs. But even half a million quid in this market is serious money to a Div 1 club. That’s how Brentford did it but we haven’t got the production line working properly yet. |
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Post by sparks on Aug 2, 2022 15:19:26 GMT
Yes I agree it’s better recently until Strikers are mentioned
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Post by Stanley75 on Aug 2, 2022 15:28:25 GMT
Hate to say it but we need someone like Willock to step up and have a big season and sell for big money. We'd be much better off keeping Willock and sell Chair + Dickie imo. |
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Aug 2, 2022 15:42:22 GMT
Hate to say it but we need someone like Willock to step up and have a big season and sell for big money. We'd be much better off keeping Willock and sell Chair + Dickie imo. Given a choice sure but they aren’t Premier League level. You have to sell your best player - as we did with Eze - then you get the big bucks. |
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Post by Stanley75 on Aug 2, 2022 15:46:59 GMT
We'd be much better off keeping Willock and sell Chair + Dickie imo. Given a choice sure but they aren’t Premier League level. You have to sell your best player - as we did with Eze - then you get the big bucks. The Eze example is constantly trotted out to the point it's become a cliché. It's a balancing act. Selling Willock would be a major blow. He's our best player and settled in the squad. Selling him doesn't guarantee a walk-in ready replacement and therefore doing so would also be a big gamble in terms of our progression. |
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Post by Corbray on Aug 2, 2022 16:53:10 GMT
i'd be ok with dickie and chair being sold tbh, although i do rate both very highly. we already have dunne as a replacement for dickie whilst chair's market value is also pretty high atm.
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Aug 3, 2022 0:06:56 GMT
These are the responses of fans - of course you don’t want to lose your best player. Nor do I. But no one wants Dickie, no one wants Chair. Someone might want Willock if he has a blinding season. If he doesn’t then it will be another season the year after scrapping mid table or lower in the Championship. Depressingly it’s the economics of football
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Post by Stanley75 on Aug 3, 2022 1:17:00 GMT
These are the responses of fans - of course you don’t want to lose your best player. Nor do I. But no one wants Dickie, no one wants Chair. Someone might want Willock if he has a blinding season. If he doesn’t then it will be another season the year after scrapping mid table or lower in the Championship. Depressingly it’s the economics of football Disagree it's a fans response Stains. No one wants Willock either yet. Otherwise any of them three would have been sold by now had the price been right. I wouldn't say it's any less likely Chair or Dickie leaving over Willock, it's just that their value would be lower. It could be a Champs or even a foreign team. Conversely, don't think it's any more likely we'd sell Willock over the other two as he'd command a much higher fee. Two examples: We sold BOS and Manning - neither of those two were our best players; the price was right however. |
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Post by sparks on Aug 3, 2022 7:52:39 GMT
Obviously would not like to see Willock leave but the time left on his contract suggests this is the season to sell for max value,I’m aware the club have another year option but his current valuation will drop if left to his final year.
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Post by Bill on Aug 3, 2022 9:24:53 GMT
Fine if correct Just wonder why they would do that and for how long. No choice I guess - either they cut spend and we get relegated or they find someone to buy us. Otherwise that’s what it costs to simply stand still in the Championship. Why I think we need to be a little careful telling the board to splurge cash. Does this 1 million per month appear in the clubs accounts ? |
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Aug 3, 2022 9:42:56 GMT
These are the responses of fans - of course you don’t want to lose your best player. Nor do I. But no one wants Dickie, no one wants Chair. Someone might want Willock if he has a blinding season. If he doesn’t then it will be another season the year after scrapping mid table or lower in the Championship. Depressingly it’s the economics of football Disagree it's a fans response Stains. No one wants Willock either yet. Otherwise any of them three would have been sold by now had the price been right. I wouldn't say it's any less likely Chair or Dickie leaving over Willock, it's just that their value would be lower. It could be a Champs or even a foreign team. Conversely, don't think it's any more likely we'd sell Willock over the other two as he'd command a much higher fee. Two examples: We sold BOS and Manning - neither of those two were our best players; the price was right however. The point I was trying to make (maybe not expressing myself well) is that a club like us almost certainly has to accept we must sell our very best players. Brentford sold Watkins for 30m, Benrahama for 20m, Maupay for 14m, Mepham for 12m (the list goes on). Their fans were probably upset to see them go but sales like that enabled them to go out and buy Toney for 5m who has arguably become much better than Watkins. You are right at the moment no one wants any of our players but I would argue Willock is the most likely to attract interest as very simply he is our best player. If we are to progress we must start attracting serious bids. You mention selling to the Championship but our CEO said in an interview last season that the market for a Championship player for 2-3m has completely disappeared. Only a few clubs with parachute money can pay anything serious in transfer fees. Besides if we are losing 1m a month when the owners want to make the club self supporting, 2 or 3 million won’t cut it. We would need an Eze type sale every season. We aren’t there by any means but that is clearly the model the club is working towards. |
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Aug 3, 2022 9:47:19 GMT
No choice I guess - either they cut spend and we get relegated or they find someone to buy us. Otherwise that’s what it costs to simply stand still in the Championship. Why I think we need to be a little careful telling the board to splurge cash. Does this 1 million per month appear in the clubs accounts ? Published accounts are always a year or two behind the current season but believe this is around the figure in the last accounts. From memory (stand to be corrected) the covid season was poss worse but for the Eze money which was entirely swallowed up in lost gate receipts etc |
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Aug 3, 2022 9:50:48 GMT
Ps also to Stan: don’t believe the price was right for Manning or Bos - we basically had our pants pulled down as they were running down their contracts. If we had managed to sell Bos the year before we might have got several million for him. And that is the minimum we need to be looking for in selling our players.
Anyway - i will shut up now!
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Post by Stanley75 on Aug 3, 2022 10:06:27 GMT
Disagree it's a fans response Stains. No one wants Willock either yet. Otherwise any of them three would have been sold by now had the price been right. I wouldn't say it's any less likely Chair or Dickie leaving over Willock, it's just that their value would be lower. It could be a Champs or even a foreign team. Conversely, don't think it's any more likely we'd sell Willock over the other two as he'd command a much higher fee. Two examples: We sold BOS and Manning - neither of those two were our best players; the price was right however. The point I was trying to make (maybe not expressing myself well) is that a club like us almost certainly has to accept we must sell our very best players. Brentford sold Watkins for 30m, Benrahama for 20m, Maupay for 14m, Mepham for 12m (the list goes on). Their fans were probably upset to see them go but sales like that enabled them to go out and buy Toney for 5m who has arguably become much better than Watkins. You are right at the moment no one wants any of our players but I would argue Willock is the most likely to attract interest as very simply he is our best player. If we are to progress we must start attracting serious bids. You mention selling to the Championship but our CEO said in an interview last season that the market for a Championship player for 2-3m has completely disappeared. Only a few clubs with parachute money can pay anything serious in transfer fees. Besides if we are losing 1m a month when the owners want to make the club self supporting, 2 or 3 million won’t cut it. We would need an Eze type sale every season. We aren’t there by any means but that is clearly the model the club is working towards. Some fair points Stains. My main point really is selling a Willock by no means guarantees the progress you suggest if the recruitment process is not a solid one, as per your Brentford example. Until we get that right consistently and systemically, that for me will always be the concern. |
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Post by West Acton on Aug 3, 2022 10:55:21 GMT
Ps also to Stan: don’t believe the price was right for Manning or Bos - we basically had our pants pulled down as they were running down their contracts. If we had managed to sell Bos the year before we might have got several million for him. And that is the minimum we need to be looking for in selling our players. Anyway - i will shut up now! manning we go what he was worth perhaps bit over the top as he was shit |
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Post by Shania on Aug 3, 2022 12:14:52 GMT
Which all points to having a better recruitment network, because what we really need is someone cheap, a raw talent maybe, or someone from a lesser-known league abroad. Shania often points out Scandinavian ( or is it just Norwegian?) players who might fit the bill, for example. Scandinavian players in general,Hubble. |
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Aug 3, 2022 12:24:39 GMT
The point I was trying to make (maybe not expressing myself well) is that a club like us almost certainly has to accept we must sell our very best players. Brentford sold Watkins for 30m, Benrahama for 20m, Maupay for 14m, Mepham for 12m (the list goes on). Their fans were probably upset to see them go but sales like that enabled them to go out and buy Toney for 5m who has arguably become much better than Watkins. You are right at the moment no one wants any of our players but I would argue Willock is the most likely to attract interest as very simply he is our best player. If we are to progress we must start attracting serious bids. You mention selling to the Championship but our CEO said in an interview last season that the market for a Championship player for 2-3m has completely disappeared. Only a few clubs with parachute money can pay anything serious in transfer fees. Besides if we are losing 1m a month when the owners want to make the club self supporting, 2 or 3 million won’t cut it. We would need an Eze type sale every season. We aren’t there by any means but that is clearly the model the club is working towards. Some fair points Stains. My main point really is selling a Willock by no means guarantees the progress you suggest if the recruitment process is not a solid one, as per your Brentford example. Until we get that right consistently and systemically, that for me will always be the concern. Agree no guarantee we will get good replacements but IMHO we have to at least try. Besides if you get the kind of fees Brentford got for players you can probably take a few chances. No doubt they bought some duds as well as the Toneys. We don’t really know how good our recruitment/ scouting network is because we clearly have virtually no money at all. For all we know they have identified lots of good players but we just don’t have the funds to buy anyone until we sell - alas. |
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Post by Bill on Aug 3, 2022 12:44:56 GMT
Some fair points Stains. My main point really is selling a Willock by no means guarantees the progress you suggest if the recruitment process is not a solid one, as per your Brentford example. Until we get that right consistently and systemically, that for me will always be the concern. Agree no guarantee we will get good replacements but IMHO we have to at least try. Besides if you get the kind of fees Brentford got for players you can probably take a few chances. No doubt they bought some duds as well as the Toneys. We don’t really know how good our recruitment/ scouting network is because we clearly have virtually no money at all. For all we know they have identified lots of good players but we just don’t have the funds to buy anyone until we sell - alas. So we struggle on due to the TF disaster compounded by Hughless,Redkrap and a board who have two hands tied behind their back and continue to have a suspect decision making process. |
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Post by Stanley75 on Aug 3, 2022 13:27:20 GMT
Some fair points Stains. My main point really is selling a Willock by no means guarantees the progress you suggest if the recruitment process is not a solid one, as per your Brentford example. Until we get that right consistently and systemically, that for me will always be the concern. Agree no guarantee we will get good replacements but IMHO we have to at least try. Besides if you get the kind of fees Brentford got for players you can probably take a few chances. No doubt they bought some duds as well as the Toneys. We don’t really know how good our recruitment/ scouting network is because we clearly have virtually no money at all. For all we know they have identified lots of good players but we just don’t have the funds to buy anyone until we sell - alas. Chicken and egg situation. You can argue we don't have those funds because of sub-par recruitment, which is probably the most important job of any well run club. Get that right first. Then selling a Willock carries far less risk. |
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Post by sparks on Aug 3, 2022 13:37:18 GMT
Because recruitment directly effects wether a Manager/Coach stays in the job I can see the head of recruitment//DOF or whatever you want to call it following Managers to different clubs in future.
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Post by alanwycombe on Aug 3, 2022 13:39:55 GMT
But isn’t it the point that we have plenty of money but can’t spend it within the rules?
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Post by Bill on Aug 3, 2022 13:44:11 GMT
But isn’t it the point that we have plenty of money but can’t spend it within the rules? Yes,but the rules are garbage imo. |
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Post by Stanley75 on Aug 3, 2022 13:46:42 GMT
But isn’t the point that we have plenty of money but can’t spend it within the rules? Yes. Therefore the club needs to be self-sustaining and generate its own income. Solid recruitment is the bedrock to achieve that, or at least a major part of it. |
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Post by Bill on Aug 3, 2022 13:48:44 GMT
Yes but my fear is that the rules will be revised or banished just after we have taken a huge hit.
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Post by Bill on Aug 3, 2022 13:50:59 GMT
Sorry got to have my nap now.
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Post by alanwycombe on Aug 3, 2022 13:51:43 GMT
Is it time for Countdown?
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Post by Corbray on Aug 3, 2022 15:51:33 GMT
Which all points to having a better recruitment network, because what we really need is someone cheap, a raw talent maybe, or someone from a lesser-known league abroad. Shania often points out Scandinavian ( or is it just Norwegian?) players who might fit the bill, for example. Scandinavian players in general,Hubble. idk why we aren't looking at players in "lesser" leagues, brentford did it to perfection. their model was to look at the overachieving players in the overachieving teams in france and scandanavia etc. they'd also take stats into account, so if a striker for example has only scored 10 goals but has an average of 3 shots a game then you know he's getting into the right spots and with better coaching those shots can hopefully be converted into goals. plus players from scandanavia are on much lower wages that championship players and far cheaper too. its a no brainer to pick up players from there imo |
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