|
|
Post by West Acton on Apr 20, 2023 11:09:53 GMT
Really don't see the problem. As Bill says, it can break up momentum that a team has built up, for one thing. Presumably the ref adds the time on at the end of the half for the stoppage? so do water breaks in the summer, so do players shithousing which we all seem to cream over, so does VAR, so do fans not giving the ball back |
|
|
|
Post by West Acton on Apr 20, 2023 11:10:56 GMT
As others say good sensible debate 👌🏽
|
|
|
|
Post by Stanley75 on Apr 20, 2023 11:14:08 GMT
As Bill says, it can break up momentum that a team has built up, for one thing. Presumably the ref adds the time on at the end of the half for the stoppage? so do water breaks in the summer, so do players shithousing which we all seem to cream over, so does VAR, so do fans not giving the ball back water breaks and VAR are sometimes necessary though for the overall game and for both teams; not just those who choose to adhere to a particular faith. |
|
|
|
Post by Corbray on Apr 20, 2023 11:14:56 GMT
Really don't see the problem. As Bill says, it can break up momentum that a team has built up, for one thing. Presumably the ref adds the time on at the end of the half for the stoppage? so can time wasting, faking injuries, tactical fouls etc. i've noticed that refs have stopped adding on much time anyway. we had 3 or 5(?) added on for the first half yesterday despite 3 injury breaks and iftar. |
|
|
|
Post by 2Loftus on Apr 20, 2023 11:17:47 GMT
Really don't see the problem. As Bill says, it can break up momentum that a team has built up, for one thing. Presumably the ref adds the time on at the end of the half for the stoppage? But that can work either way... |
|
|
|
Post by Stanley75 on Apr 20, 2023 11:18:05 GMT
so can time wasting, faking injuries, tactical fouls etc. Again, those dark arts are just part and parcel of the overall game. |
|
|
|
Post by alanwycombe on Apr 20, 2023 11:39:48 GMT
My point wasn’t really related to football/sport alone I just see this latest thing with Ramadan as yet another example of how accepting of different cultures we are in this country yet the moment someone, usually a minority, steps out of line in some way we are all labelled as sexist, racist, homophobic, ageist etc. by people/countries/organisations who are nowhere near as accommodating and inclusive as we are.
|
|
|
|
Post by gtleighsr3 on Apr 20, 2023 11:42:41 GMT
My point wasn’t really related to football/sport alone I just see this latest thing with Ramadan as yet another example of how accepting of different cultures we are in this country yet the moment someone, usually a minority, steps out of line in some way we are all labelled as sexist, racist, homophobic, ageist etc. by people/countries/organisations who are nowhere near as accommodating and inclusive as we are. diff debate for off topic that I fear |
|
|
|
Post by alanwycombe on Apr 20, 2023 12:08:43 GMT
Nor me but not the point I was making. Would we arrange a late kick off because a couple of our players wanted to go to church on Sunday? No. They’d be told to get on with it. but we don’t play christmas day anymore Easter? |
|
|
|
Post by West Acton on Apr 20, 2023 12:19:07 GMT
but we don’t play christmas day anymore Easter? but your point was, unless I’ve misunderstood, that we don’t make amendments for Christian festivals I’ve given example where we do. Just because they don’t do for Easter don’t change the point on Christmas. Actually Easter is bigger festival then Christmas to Christian’s so they probably got it wrong way round if the real reason for not playing is faith related. |
|
|
|
Post by Corbray on Apr 20, 2023 12:19:08 GMT
My point wasn’t really related to football/sport alone I just see this latest thing with Ramadan as yet another example of how accepting of different cultures we are in this country yet the moment someone, usually a minority, steps out of line in some way we are all labelled as sexist, racist, homophobic, ageist etc. by people/countries/organisations who are nowhere near as accommodating and inclusive as we are. people jump on critisisms of minorities because its that whole "white saviourism" thing were "woke" white people feel the need to be the guardians of minorities. i don't get it, i don't view a discussion about breaks for muslims to stop fasting as racist personally and even though i'm for it i can understand the rational about being against it. times do change though. go back 100 years and racism was widely tolerated even among black people who had to develop thick skin and just get on with it - which i'm sure everyone here can agree is profoundly wrong. heck, look at my situation as an example for changing times. i'm open about batting for both teams on this forum and irl but how would i have been treated among football fans in the 70s and 80s? sure, some people would have been perfectly ok with it but i imagine others wouldn't have felt comfortable and some downright hostile towards me. thats why i don't see breaking for iftar as an issue. some people take their religion seriously and thats something we as brits have to respect and at the end of the day taking a few minutes to pause the game doesn't do any harm. muslims are part of this country just as much as anyone, sure there are issues with extremism in some communities but most are just normal people getting on with their lives and respecting our country so its only fair we do the same. inclusivity and rational tolerance is better for a nation than dividing communities. |
|
|
|
Post by West Acton on Apr 20, 2023 12:21:10 GMT
Corbs is greedy bastard he likes his bread buttered on both sides. Leave some talent for the rest of us.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ginger Ninja on Apr 20, 2023 14:25:51 GMT
I reckon there are a lot more than a handful of Muslim players in this country mate. Hell of a lot more.
Are there? We've got one in our squad. How many others do you know about? Point still stands.
One that we know about, it's impossible to know how many without asking them to be honest. |
|
|
|
Post by 2Loftus on Apr 20, 2023 14:43:17 GMT
Are there? We've got one in our squad. How many others do you know about? Point still stands.
it's impossible to know how many without asking them to be honest. Dieng and Chair in the 1st team. The club showed a pic last year of 6 other non-1st team players with their prayer mats on the eve of Ramadan. |
|
|
|
Post by Shania on Apr 20, 2023 17:24:18 GMT
My point wasn’t really related to football/sport alone I just see this latest thing with Ramadan as yet another example of how accepting of different cultures we are in this country yet the moment someone, usually a minority, steps out of line in some way we are all labelled as sexist, racist, homophobic, ageist etc. by people/countries/organisations who are nowhere near as accommodating and inclusive as we are. people jump on critisisms of minorities because its that whole "white saviourism" thing were "woke" white people feel the need to be the guardians of minorities. i don't get it, i don't view a discussion about breaks for muslims to stop fasting as racist personally and even though i'm for it i can understand the rational about being against it. times do change though. go back 100 years and racism was widely tolerated even among black people who had to develop thick skin and just get on with it - which i'm sure everyone here can agree is profoundly wrong. heck, look at my situation as an example for changing times. i'm open about batting for both teams on this forum and irl but how would i have been treated among football fans in the 70s and 80s? sure, some people would have been perfectly ok with it but i imagine others wouldn't have felt comfortable and some downright hostile towards me. thats why i don't see breaking for iftar as an issue. some people take their religion seriously and thats something we as brits have to respect and at the end of the day taking a few minutes to pause the game doesn't do any harm. muslims are part of this country just as much as anyone, sure there are issues with extremism in some communities but most are just normal people getting on with their lives and respecting our country so its only fair we do the same. inclusivity and rational tolerance is better for a nation than dividing communities. But dosen`t that include Christian brits as well? |
|
|
|
Post by hubble on Apr 20, 2023 17:43:26 GMT
Look, I've got a simple solution: if the players need fluids, then let them come off while the game carries on. It's the unneccessary interruption to the flow of the game that I object to, and the reason I object so strongly is that once you start fiddling like this it opens the door to other people's percieved needs, whether they be physical, commercial, political or whatever. Just stop meddling with the game for what is in reality a very small minority issue.
|
|
|
|
Post by Corbray on Apr 20, 2023 17:47:43 GMT
people jump on critisisms of minorities because its that whole "white saviourism" thing were "woke" white people feel the need to be the guardians of minorities. i don't get it, i don't view a discussion about breaks for muslims to stop fasting as racist personally and even though i'm for it i can understand the rational about being against it. times do change though. go back 100 years and racism was widely tolerated even among black people who had to develop thick skin and just get on with it - which i'm sure everyone here can agree is profoundly wrong. heck, look at my situation as an example for changing times. i'm open about batting for both teams on this forum and irl but how would i have been treated among football fans in the 70s and 80s? sure, some people would have been perfectly ok with it but i imagine others wouldn't have felt comfortable and some downright hostile towards me. thats why i don't see breaking for iftar as an issue. some people take their religion seriously and thats something we as brits have to respect and at the end of the day taking a few minutes to pause the game doesn't do any harm. muslims are part of this country just as much as anyone, sure there are issues with extremism in some communities but most are just normal people getting on with their lives and respecting our country so its only fair we do the same. inclusivity and rational tolerance is better for a nation than dividing communities. But dosen`t that include Christian brits as well? do christians have a religious holiday were they fast for an extended period of time? |
|
|
|
Post by hubble on Apr 20, 2023 17:51:26 GMT
But dosen`t that include Christian brits as well? do christians have a religious holiday were they fast for an extended period of time? Yes, Catholics fast at Lent.
|
|
|
|
Post by Shania on Apr 20, 2023 18:07:41 GMT
But dosen`t that include Christian brits as well? do christians have a religious holiday were they fast for an extended period of time? No need for this reply, this was merely a question regarding Brits and their respect for the Anglican Church - nothing more. |
|
|
|
Post by Stanley75 on Apr 20, 2023 18:21:44 GMT
Look, I've got a simple solution: if the players need fluids, then let them come off while the game carries on. It's the unneccessary interruption to the flow of the game that I object to, and the reason I object so strongly is that once you start fiddling like this it opens the door to other people's percieved needs, whether they be physical, commercial, political or whatever. Just stop meddling with the game for what is in reality a very small minority issue. Seems like perfectly reasonable points to me. It's the thin end of the wedge, as you say. |
|
|
|
Post by Corbray on Apr 20, 2023 18:36:36 GMT
do christians have a religious holiday were they fast for an extended period of time? Yes, Catholics fast at Lent.
its not as strict as ramadan is though nor is it as wide spread in the UK. personally speaking here, one kid at my school was the son of a pastor and would only fast on ash wednesday and good friday. |
|
|
|
Post by Corbray on Apr 20, 2023 18:37:15 GMT
do christians have a religious holiday were they fast for an extended period of time? No need for this reply, this was merely a question regarding Brits and their respect for the Anglican Church - nothing more. you asked a question? |
|
Vespa
Silver Seat
Posts: 1,078
|
Post by Vespa on Apr 20, 2023 18:43:28 GMT
The bottom line for me is we should not be changing our game to pander to the whims of minority groups who choose to fast .
|
|
|
|
Post by Stanley75 on Apr 20, 2023 19:00:44 GMT
The bottom line for me is we should not be changing our game to pander to the whims of minority groups who choose to fast. It also makes no sense to interrupt an entire game for the sake of one or two participants to take on extra fluids because they've chosen to fast. As Hubble says, the reasonable thing to do would be to leave the pitch and do it while the game goes on. (The ref can wave them on and off like they usually do when coming on after treatment.) |
|
|
|
Post by Rangers77 on Apr 20, 2023 19:06:48 GMT
The bottom line for me is we should not be changing our game to pander to the whims of minority groups who choose to fast. It also makes no sense to interrupt an entire game for the sake of one or two participants to take on extra fluids because they've chosen to fast. As Hubble says, the reasonable thing to do would be to leave the pitch and do it while the game goes on. (The ref can wave them on and off like they usually do when coming on after treatment.) Ahhhhh. But the clubs want to be be seen doing it. |
|
|
|
Post by Stanley75 on Apr 20, 2023 19:14:33 GMT
It also makes no sense to interrupt an entire game for the sake of one or two participants to take on extra fluids because they've chosen to fast. As Hubble says, the reasonable thing to do would be to leave the pitch and do it while the game goes on. (The ref can wave them on and off like they usually do when coming on after treatment.) Ahhhhh. But the clubs want to be be seen doing it. I was arguing on purely rational grounds. But yet another virtue signal too? I wouldn't doubt it. |
|
|
|
Post by West Acton on Apr 20, 2023 19:33:40 GMT
The bottom line for me is we should not be changing our game to pander to the whims of minority groups who choose to fast. It also makes no sense to interrupt an entire game for the sake of one or two participants to take on extra fluids because they've chosen to fast. As Hubble says, the reasonable thing to do would be to leave the pitch and do it while the game goes on. (The ref can wave them on and off like they usually do when coming on after treatment.) should that not apply for every water break if the argument is the game is not interrupted? Not sure would work based on laws of the game as do you not need to seek permission of the ref to leave the pitch or am I imagining that? |
|
|
|
Post by Stanley75 on Apr 20, 2023 19:41:16 GMT
It also makes no sense to interrupt an entire game for the sake of one or two participants to take on extra fluids because they've chosen to fast. As Hubble says, the reasonable thing to do would be to leave the pitch and do it while the game goes on. (The ref can wave them on and off like they usually do when coming on after treatment.)
Not sure would work based on laws of the game as do you not need to seek permission of the ref to leave the pitch or am I imagining that? No, because the point has already been made, that applies to all 22 players, not just a couple. |
|
|
|
Post by 1qprdk on Apr 21, 2023 6:50:20 GMT
One that we know about, it's impossible to know how many without asking them to be honest. Dieng and Chair in the 1st team. The club showed a pic last year of 6 other non-1st team players with their prayer mats on the eve of Ramadan. Pictures of prayer mats, and rainbow laces. Great combo. Opposites attract, I guess. |
|
|
|
Post by 1qprdk on Apr 21, 2023 7:07:17 GMT
inclusivity and rational tolerance is better for a nation than dividing communities. But is it really rational to be tolerant of irrationality? You have to draw the line somewhere, imo. |
|
