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Post by James1979 on Apr 21, 2023 7:15:47 GMT
We stop the game for water breaks when it’s too hot. Don’t really think it’s a big issue here. Just because other countries wouldn’t do it, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t. I don’t want to be anything like countries like Qatar, Saudi etc.
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Post by Corbray on Apr 21, 2023 7:38:48 GMT
inclusivity and rational tolerance is better for a nation than dividing communities. But is it really rational to be tolerant of irrationality? You have to draw the line somewhere, imo. i just don't get whats irrational about letting someone to break their fast. i think we can all agree that muslims take their religion far more seriously than christians especially in this country so its only fair that we tolerate their beliefs so long as its accomidating to our own way of life. |
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Post by Rangers77 on Apr 21, 2023 8:46:26 GMT
Dieng and Chair in the 1st team. The club showed a pic last year of 6 other non-1st team players with their prayer mats on the eve of Ramadan. Pictures of prayer mats, and rainbow laces. Great combo. Opposites attract, I guess. The virtue is differently displayed as and when thought appropriate. |
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Post by hubble on Apr 21, 2023 9:33:13 GMT
But is it really rational to be tolerant of irrationality? You have to draw the line somewhere, imo. i just don't get whats irrational about letting someone to break their fast. i think we can all agree that muslims take their religion far more seriously than christians especially in this country so its only fair that we tolerate their beliefs so long as its accomidating to our own way of life.
If I may speak for DK, I think you've misunderstood his point, Corbs. What he's saying is that their religious rules and beliefs could be considered irrational, and therefore by adhering to them and then expecting others (the majority) to acquiesce is asking a bit much. He's not saying wanting to have a drink or break their fast is irrational.
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Post by Shania on Apr 21, 2023 9:39:38 GMT
Pictures of prayer mats, and rainbow laces. Great combo. Opposites attract, I guess. The virtue is differently displayed as and when thought appropriate. I wish quality was a virtue at this football club. |
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Post by Rangers77 on Apr 21, 2023 9:42:51 GMT
Amen to that. And just football.
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Post by Corbray on Apr 21, 2023 9:48:49 GMT
i just don't get whats irrational about letting someone to break their fast. i think we can all agree that muslims take their religion far more seriously than christians especially in this country so its only fair that we tolerate their beliefs so long as its accomidating to our own way of life.
If I may speak for DK, I think you've misunderstood his point, Corbs. What he's saying is that their religious rules and beliefs could be considered irrational, and therefore by adhering to them and then expecting others (the majority) to acquiesce is asking a bit much. He's not saying wanting to have a drink or break their fast is irrational.
i understood his point, you could argue that all religions are irrational just as well. i believe islam is the most irrational of the lot too and i have done vollunteer stuff with exmuslims in the past through a charity called karmanirvana. but it doesn't change that there are many people who do follow islam and personally i always try to look at the human element of things as long as its in line with our western way of life. just because islamic nations and sharia are barbaric doesn't mean we should treat people with the same decency, we have freedom of religion over here so i don't view iftar or eid celebrations as a bad or divisive thing that goes against us as a secular society. sharia councils? no way, the government need to come down on those as they do exist and aren't equal (ie rulings towards marriage). burqa's? nope, they create division and subjugation. iftar breaks for a few minutes? perfectly fine imo. |
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Post by hal9thou on Apr 21, 2023 9:50:03 GMT
i just don't get whats irrational about letting someone to break their fast. i think we can all agree that muslims take their religion far more seriously than christians especially in this country so its only fair that we tolerate their beliefs so long as its accomidating to our own way of life.
What he's saying is that their religious rules and beliefs could be considered irrational
But by that logic pretty much everything that many hold dear in this country goes out of the window too: ie complete separation of church and state, king no longer defender of faith and therefor monarchy in constitutional tatters, god no longer saving him, forget the national anthem etc etc. which is fine by me, just pointing out that everyones religious beliefs could be considered irrational. |
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Post by Stanley75 on Apr 21, 2023 10:11:53 GMT
everyones religious beliefs could be considered irrational. Of course. Every religion requires a leap of faith therefore they can all be regarded as irrational. Thread's going off topic from the OP though. |
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Post by hal9thou on Apr 21, 2023 10:23:21 GMT
everyones religious beliefs could be considered irrational. Of course. Every religion requires a leap of faith therefore they can all be regarded as irrational. Thread's going off topic from the OP though. Not really, because if we accept all religion as irrational, then we must - in principal - agree with the OP. And while we're at it, disapprove the singing of god save the king. Unless of course we choose to tolerate irrational beliefs in an attempt at social cohesion.... ie Corbs pov. |
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Post by hubble on Apr 21, 2023 10:39:22 GMT
What he's saying is that their religious rules and beliefs could be considered irrational
But by that logic pretty much everything that many hold dear in this country goes out of the window too: ie complete separation of church and state, king no longer defender of faith and therefor monarchy in constitutional tatters, god no longer saving him, forget the national anthem etc etc. which is fine by me, just pointing out that everyones religious beliefs could be considered irrational.
Yes, of course, they are 'irrational' by the yardstick of 'rationality'. I'm not arguing for or against these beliefs, I'm simply clarifying DK's point. Hopefully you and Corbs can see the difference.
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Post by hubble on Apr 21, 2023 10:44:00 GMT
Of course. Every religion requires a leap of faith therefore they can all be regarded as irrational. Thread's going off topic from the OP though. Not really, because if we accept all religion as irrational, then we must - in principal - agree with the OP. And while we're at it, disapprove the singing of god save the king. Unless of course we choose to tolerate irrational beliefs in an attempt at social cohesion.... ie Corbs pov.
The 'reality' most of us believe we inhabit is entirely irrational. We already - without being conscious of the act - tolerate irrationality to achieve social cohesion, that's the only way society works. This is a subject that absolutely fscinates me, and we could have a very interesting discussion about the Newtonian concept of 'reality' which is the one most people still believe in, versus the quantum mechanics view of 'reality', which is radically different. But as Stan says, we are digressing.
If Stan and Brights were willing to allow such a discussion to take place on this main forum, I'd love to see what people thought about our co-created, tolerant/tolerated and familiarised cultural frame of reference which we call 'reality'.
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Post by Stanley75 on Apr 21, 2023 11:37:08 GMT
Thread's going off topic from the OP though. Not really, because if we accept all religion as irrational, then we must - in principal - agree with the OP. I don't think that's the OP's point Hal. Here's what he says again: we could have a very interesting discussion about the Newtonian concept of 'reality' which is the one most people still believe in, versus the quantum mechanics view of 'reality', which is radically different. I think you could throw Objectivism into that mix too. If Stan and Brights were willing to allow such a discussion to take place on this main forum, I'd love to see what people thought about our co-created, tolerant/tolerated and familiarised cultural frame of reference which we call 'reality'. Fine by me Hubs. |
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Post by hal9thou on Apr 21, 2023 11:46:36 GMT
Not really, because if we accept all religion as irrational, then we must - in principal - agree with the OP. And while we're at it, disapprove the singing of god save the king. Unless of course we choose to tolerate irrational beliefs in an attempt at social cohesion.... ie Corbs pov.
The 'reality' most of us believe we inhabit is entirely irrational. We already - without being conscious of the act - tolerate irrationality to achieve social cohesion, that's the only way society works. This is a subject that absolutely fscinates me, and we could have a very interesting discussion about the Newtonian concept of 'reality' which is the one most people still believe in, versus the quantum mechanics view of 'reality', which is radically different. But as Stan says, we are digressing.
If Stan and Brights were willing to allow such a discussion to take place on this main forum, I'd love to see what people thought about our co-created, tolerant/tolerated and familiarised cultural frame of reference which we call 'reality'.
Those versions of 'reality' aren't incompatible. One is part of the other. Which could lead to an interesting philosophical discussion  which as you say could be another thread....... |
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Post by hubble on Apr 21, 2023 12:07:50 GMT
The 'reality' most of us believe we inhabit is entirely irrational. We already - without being conscious of the act - tolerate irrationality to achieve social cohesion, that's the only way society works. This is a subject that absolutely fscinates me, and we could have a very interesting discussion about the Newtonian concept of 'reality' which is the one most people still believe in, versus the quantum mechanics view of 'reality', which is radically different. But as Stan says, we are digressing.
If Stan and Brights were willing to allow such a discussion to take place on this main forum, I'd love to see what people thought about our co-created, tolerant/tolerated and familiarised cultural frame of reference which we call 'reality'.
Those versions of 'reality' aren't incompatible. One is part of the other. Which could lead to an interesting philosophical discussion which as you say could be another thread....... Ooh, not incompatible you say Hal.... hmmmm, well, that's debatable! Okay, for those that might be interested, when I can muster the energy I will post my thoughts on the nature of 'reality' so that we can all have a say - should anyone choose to join in! Thanks, Stan as well.
So in the meantime, if anyone wishes to return to the OP, please do carry on!
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Post by 1qprdk on Apr 21, 2023 12:43:50 GMT
i just don't get whats irrational about letting someone to break their fast. i think we can all agree that muslims take their religion far more seriously than christians especially in this country so its only fair that we tolerate their beliefs so long as its accomidating to our own way of life.
If I may speak for DK, I think you've misunderstood his point, Corbs. What he's saying is that their religious rules and beliefs could be considered irrational, and therefore by adhering to them and then expecting others (the majority) to acquiesce is asking a bit much. He's not saying wanting to have a drink or break their fast is irrational.
That's exactly what I meant. Thanks hubble |
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Post by West Acton on Apr 21, 2023 15:26:48 GMT
Those versions of 'reality' aren't incompatible. One is part of the other. Which could lead to an interesting philosophical discussion which as you say could be another thread....... Ooh, not incompatible you say Hal.... hmmmm, well, that's debatable! Okay, for those that might be interested, when I can muster the energy I will post my thoughts on the nature of 'reality' so that we can all have a say - should anyone choose to join in! Thanks, Stan as well.
So in the meantime, if anyone wishes to return to the OP, please do carry on!
love things like that and the universe fascinates me |
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Post by Stanley75 on Apr 21, 2023 15:51:01 GMT
the Newtonian concept of 'reality' which is the one most people still believe in, versus the quantum mechanics view of 'reality', which is radically different. Those versions of 'reality' aren't incompatible. One is part of the other. not incompatible you say Hal.... hmmmm, well, that's debatable One is part of the other in that quantum mechanics are the extension of Newtonian on the quantum level. Where it departs from the Newtonian is it becomes much harder to measure and define because the quarks appear to be in a constant state of 'flow'. I'm guessing that's what Hubs is referring to. |
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Post by hubble on Apr 21, 2023 19:17:36 GMT
the Newtonian concept of 'reality' which is the one most people still believe in, versus the quantum mechanics view of 'reality', which is radically different. Those versions of 'reality' aren't incompatible. One is part of the other. not incompatible you say Hal.... hmmmm, well, that's debatable One is part of the other in that quantum mechanics are the extension of Newtonian on the quantum level. Where it departs from the Newtonian is it becomes much harder to measure and define because the quarks appear to be in a constant state of 'flow'. I'm guessing that's what Hubs is referring to. Oh no Stan, I'm referring to much more than that: the incredible curvature and folding space/time which creates 'gravity', the 'granularity' of the quantum universe versus the seamless flow of the Newtonian one, the fact that things like time and speed only exist by something being in relation to something else (and there is no such thing as 'time' or a 'universal time').... and so on....
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Post by hal9thou on Apr 21, 2023 20:23:45 GMT
One is part of the other in that quantum mechanics are the extension of Newtonian on the quantum level. Where it departs from the Newtonian is it becomes much harder to measure and define because the quarks appear to be in a constant state of 'flow'. I'm guessing that's what Hubs is referring to. Oh no Stan, I'm referring to much more than that: the incredible curvature and folding space/time which creates 'gravity', the 'granularity' of the quantum universe versus the seamless flow of the Newtonian one, the fact that things like time and speed only exist by something being in relation to something else (and there is no such thing as 'time' or a 'universal time').... and so on....
Actually Newton suggested that light consisted of particles, Huygens proposed and then Young demonstrated the existence of light waves, before Einstein proved that it could be observed as both. Plus the fact that space / time are relative doesn't necessarily mean that the experience/perception of empirical reality doesn't exist. I could go on at tedious length but we've agreed maybe this stuff belongs in another thread. Peace be upon you. |
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Post by hubble on Apr 21, 2023 21:26:23 GMT
Oh no Stan, I'm referring to much more than that: the incredible curvature and folding space/time which creates 'gravity', the 'granularity' of the quantum universe versus the seamless flow of the Newtonian one, the fact that things like time and speed only exist by something being in relation to something else (and there is no such thing as 'time' or a 'universal time').... and so on....
Actually Newton suggested that light consisted of particles, Huygens proposed and then Young demonstrated the existence of light waves, before Einstein proved that it could be observed as both. Plus the fact that space / time are relative doesn't necessarily mean that the experience/perception of empirical reality doesn't exist. I could go on at tedious length but we've agreed maybe this stuff belongs in another thread. Peace be upon you. Ah, I don't think I explained what I meant about the difference between a Newtonian reality and a quantum reality properly. I'm talking about how people perceive and experience 'reality'. My point is that most people still conceptually inhabit what you could decribe as a layperson's concept of a Newtonian universe, despite the fact that this conceptual/physical reality has been superseded by quantum mechanics. But yes, we need to start a whole new thread. Sorry every one else!
Wa Alaikum Salaam
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Post by James1979 on Apr 22, 2023 8:44:02 GMT
Just thinking about how this would have gone on other qpr message boards……trying to think which one of the others would have gone the most “mental” and been shut done first!
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Post by jfrabbit on Apr 22, 2023 8:54:13 GMT
Just thinking about how this would have gone on other qpr message boards……trying to think which one of the others would have gone the most “mental” and been shut done first! Who was that loon on WATRB who was always having mental rants  |
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Post by James1979 on Apr 22, 2023 8:59:59 GMT
Just thinking about how this would have gone on other qpr message boards……trying to think which one of the others would have gone the most “mental” and been shut done first! Who was that loon on WATRB who was always having mental rants To be honest mate, there were quite a few! |
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Post by West Acton on Apr 22, 2023 10:23:47 GMT
Just thinking about how this would have gone on other qpr message boards……trying to think which one of the others would have gone the most “mental” and been shut done first! Who was that loon on WATRB who was always having mental rants we are or angry dave? |
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Post by alanwycombe on Apr 22, 2023 11:56:15 GMT
Who was that loon on WATRB who was always having mental rants we are or angry dave? good old We Are😁, bit every time. |
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which as you say could be another thread....... 
