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Post by West Acton on Jun 17, 2023 16:58:52 GMT
I would agree totally except, us being QPR, we’ve sort of backed ourselves into a corner with Ainsworth. The whole thing needs a sort out and he’s not the one to do it so it’s got to be a DOF. Depends who they get for others to go with Les. I wouldn't trust Ainsworth with any DoF personally. Just don't think he's the type of manager suited to that relationship. fairly sure they have one at Wycombe.
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Post by Stanley75 on Jun 17, 2023 17:17:29 GMT
I'd question that. The EPL yes, obviously but I read an article saying that only 11 out of the 24 Championship clubs currently employ a DoF under any guise. Really only 11 out of 24 Stan? That surprises me a bit. Surely most of the other 13 sides have someone doing a similar role with a slightly different job title? Unless a club has a really hands-on Chairman, it's virtually impossible to run a club without Directors these days. The football industry has become too complex. Managers simply don't have the time to run the playing side and the business side like they would have 20 years ago and before. Here's the article. It's as of Feb last year. Doubt the figures will have changed much since then: trainingground.guru/articles/mike-gilham-director-of-football-in-the-eighth-tierI wouldn't factor CEO into the equation as clubs have always had those. And the terms Director of Football, Sporting Director and Technical Director are interchangeable. Furthermore, bottom line for me is that it is a failed model at our club over the past 8+ years. The form is all in the book. The club have actually regressed in that time! Again, it comes down to size of club and budget. You also have to question, if the model has worked why did they keep LF in the job for that long? I wouldn't even lay 100% of the blame on him due to the incompetence level of our owners. With more clued up owners it could possibly work but certainly not with our lot.
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Post by Tarbie on Jun 17, 2023 17:20:20 GMT
I'm not sure I agree Stan. If we hadn't moved to install a structure under Fernandes and his cronies when we did, we may not exist now. We were hemorrhaging money.
Alright, Les' tenure was a long way from a resounding success. But we definitely needed him (or someone else to do that job) when he came in. We actually needed it 4 seasons before in fact with hindsight.
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Post by Stanley75 on Jun 17, 2023 17:31:02 GMT
I'm not sure I agree Stan. If we hadn't moved to install a structure under Fernandes and his cronies when we did, we may not exist now. We were hemorrhaging money. Alright, Les' tenure was a long way from a resounding success. But we definitely needed him (or someone else to do that job) when he came in. We actually needed it 4 seasons before in fact with hindsight. My argument is Les or a DoF wasn't the solution to that problem at the time nor ever has been. A hands on Chairman and savvy competent CEO could have done that job for a club our size, and I can't stress that latter point more highly. Bringing in a DoF on top of that in my view only made the situation worse and caused us to drastically regress against our competitors. The situation called for tightening up and streamlining in a professional manner; not adding yet another salary and layers of bureaucracy and technocracy.
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Post by Tarbie on Jun 17, 2023 17:33:05 GMT
Our board simply aren't competent or hands on enough to run a football club mate.
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Post by Stanley75 on Jun 17, 2023 17:42:16 GMT
Our board simply aren't competent or hands on enough to run a football club mate. Agreed mate. Which is why, for our size, we just need a good manager, Chairman and CEO. Look what Warnock achieved with Bhatia and Saksena in 2010/11 without a DoF in sight. We have failed by putting the cart before the horse ever since.
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Post by Tarbie on Jun 17, 2023 17:51:30 GMT
Not apples for apples though is it mate?
The football industry has changed a lot in the 13 years or so that have passed. The emergence of agents has changed the landscape from a commercial perspective. Warnock is a throwback to an era where a Manager could negotiate a contract directly with a player. The players these days won't entertain that type of approach.
Also, we have Malaysian owners who are far less hands on than Amit, Bernie and Flavio were.
I just don't see how we can realistically expect to be anything close to successful if we don't replace Les.
I think I agree to some extent from the perspective that I think we have "too many cooks" in terms of a leadership team. But scrapping the DoF role isn't the answer in my opinion.
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Post by Stanley75 on Jun 17, 2023 18:02:40 GMT
For the record I'm not totally against the idea of having a DoF at the club Tarbs. But it's essential that it's the right one and the right fit. My main concern is the breakdown of trust in the owners to make that call, through all their years of mismanagement and bungled appointments.
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Post by West Acton on Jun 17, 2023 18:02:47 GMT
Think would be interesting to see a poll on who supports and objects to DOF based on age.
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Post by Stanley75 on Jun 17, 2023 18:14:05 GMT
Think would be interesting to see a poll on who supports and objects to DOF based on age. The latest poll indicates it's fairly split across the board, on here at least.
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Post by spongeparr on Jun 17, 2023 18:49:44 GMT
Those saying Webber; pretty sure he's going to Leeds.
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Post by Bill on Jun 18, 2023 10:24:39 GMT
For me whether we have a DOF is of no consequence.
The club has to become more professional in all aspects of running a footbal club.
Be proactive, move quickly regarding potential recruitment,better scouting and scrutiny of all aspects of a potential signing and most importantly stop throwing money around as if it does not matter.
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Post by sparks on Jun 18, 2023 10:50:31 GMT
I see comments about us needing a DOF to primarily negotiate transfers but nothing about appointing one for the right reasons.
Again it’s determining what responsibilities would the owners give to Ferdinands replacement and what is actually required at this club.
It’s clear that Ferdinand had very limited input on most managerial decisions taken for the first team, meaning basically he was just head of recruitment.
What a ridiculous situation of having both Belk and Ferdinand doing the same job badly for something that occurs twice a season, especially when it’s clear good leadership is required to guide the idiots in the boardroom.
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Post by Stanley75 on Jun 18, 2023 11:05:30 GMT
Sparks, Andy Belk has been at the club for 15 farking years. IMO the only reason why he's still here and Ferdinand is gone was down to fan pressure eventually saying enough was enough. Belk has basically slipped under the radar and presided over a 15 year deterioration of recruitment. This board don't make these people accountable, they are only ever REactive.
I hope and pray this all changes with Heston but you can't help be sceptical.
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Post by Corbray on Jun 18, 2023 12:00:33 GMT
Sparks, Andy Belk has been at the club for 15 farking years. IMO the only reason why he's still here and Ferdinand is gone was down to fan pressure eventually saying enough was enough. Belk has basically slipped under the radar and presided over a 15 year deterioration of recruitment. This board don't make these people accountable, they are only ever REactive. I hope and pray this all changes with Heston but you can't help be sceptical. i think we made our best recent signings when gary penrice was here tbh as he brought in a lot of unheralded yet good players. most of our best signings since have been down to the managers or coaching staff.
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Post by West Acton on Jun 18, 2023 13:00:40 GMT
Sparks, Andy Belk has been at the club for 15 farking years. IMO the only reason why he's still here and Ferdinand is gone was down to fan pressure eventually saying enough was enough. Belk has basically slipped under the radar and presided over a 15 year deterioration of recruitment. This board don't make these people accountable, they are only ever REactive. I hope and pray this all changes with Heston but you can't help be sceptical. he Defo needs to feel the heat. Lots of what we debate is opinion and can be argued either way but Belk absolutely has a role which he can be held to account for. 1/ Who are you targeting 2/ Are they realistic 3/ How many have you identified on the cheap which turn into gems 4/ How many of your suggestions actually sign for club 5/ Who have you suggested that club never signed who have gone on to better things 6/ what links have you built with other clubs lower down chain or abroad Those would be the first indicators I would review him on.
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Post by Tarbie on Jun 18, 2023 13:31:49 GMT
Sparks, Andy Belk has been at the club for 15 farking years. IMO the only reason why he's still here and Ferdinand is gone was down to fan pressure eventually saying enough was enough. Belk has basically slipped under the radar and presided over a 15 year deterioration of recruitment. This board don't make these people accountable, they are only ever REactive. I hope and pray this all changes with Heston but you can't help be sceptical. To be fair to Belk, he's only been Head of Recruitment for the last 3 seasons. He was employed as a Senior Analyst before that.
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Post by Stanley75 on Jun 18, 2023 13:41:51 GMT
Sparks, Andy Belk has been at the club for 15 farking years. IMO the only reason why he's still here and Ferdinand is gone was down to fan pressure eventually saying enough was enough. Belk has basically slipped under the radar and presided over a 15 year deterioration of recruitment. This board don't make these people accountable, they are only ever REactive. I hope and pray this all changes with Heston but you can't help be sceptical. To be fair to Belk, he's only been Head of Recruitment for the last 3 seasons. He was employed as a Senior Analyst before that. Don't think I've been unfair Tarbs. Been part of the recruitment team for the past 7 years and headed it for the past 3.5 years: Head of Performance Analysis Aug 2008 - Dec 2015 · 7 yrs 5 mos Recruitment Analyst & Scouting Coordinator Dec 2015 - Dec 2019 · 4 yrs 1 mos Head Of Recruitment Jan 2020 - Present · 3 yrs 6 mos
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Post by Tarbie on Jun 18, 2023 13:43:29 GMT
Being a part of the team doesn't make you the crux of the problem mate. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. I'd the like the new DoF to decide on that myself.
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Post by Stanley75 on Jun 18, 2023 13:46:31 GMT
Major part of the recruitment problem for the past 3.5 years for sure. Significant part of the problem for 3.5 years prior to that.
Westy is spot on above.
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Post by 1qprdk on Jun 18, 2023 13:50:58 GMT
We have no idea of Belk's performance on the 6 parameters suggested by Westy above. Maybe he's had a lot of good suggestions, but manager goes fuck that, and signs Hendicks!!?
We do know he'd been tracking Paal, who has been decent imo. Maybe countless other decent players?
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Post by 1qprdk on Jun 18, 2023 13:54:51 GMT
Btw. I'm not trying to defend him. He may be utter shit for all I know 🤣
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Post by Tarbie on Jun 18, 2023 14:03:58 GMT
We have no idea of Belk's performance on the 6 parameters suggested by Westy above. Maybe he's had a lot of good suggestions, but manager goes fuck that, and signs Hendicks!!? We do know he'd been tracking Paal, who has been decent imo. Maybe countless other decent players? This is the point I'm trying to make mate!
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Post by alanwycombe on Jun 18, 2023 15:41:12 GMT
Sparks, Andy Belk has been at the club for 15 farking years. IMO the only reason why he's still here and Ferdinand is gone was down to fan pressure eventually saying enough was enough. Belk has basically slipped under the radar and presided over a 15 year deterioration of recruitment. This board don't make these people accountable, they are only ever REactive. I hope and pray this all changes with Heston but you can't help be sceptical. he Defo needs to feel the heat. Lots of what we debate is opinion and can be argued either way but Belk absolutely has a role which he can be held to account for. 1/ Who are you targeting 2/ Are they realistic 3/ How many have you identified on the cheap which turn into gems 4/ How many of your suggestions actually sign for club 5/ Who have you suggested that club never signed who have gone on to better things 6/ what links have you built with other clubs lower down chain or abroad Those would be the first indicators I would review him on. Great post and exactly the accountability I bet we lack throughout the club….. because they’re all mates.
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Post by Ginger Ninja on Jun 19, 2023 8:38:04 GMT
Speaking of recruitment, I've not seen us linked with anyone so far this summer. Have we got to wait for a new DoF before signings can start? Because if we go into next season with barely anyone coming in, we're fucked.
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Post by Corbray on Jun 19, 2023 8:45:53 GMT
tbh i'm not too fussed that we haven't been linked with anyone yet as its fairly obvious that we will be signing people.
i suspect lewis wing and that forino guy will be signed within the next few weeks which are decent signings. the rest probably depends on who we sell and if eze is sold. its a rather dissapointing state of affairs that our season hangs on eze going for a decent fee though
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Post by West Acton on Jun 19, 2023 9:31:15 GMT
Would be nice to get in early Corbs and get little bit of the cream instead of the dregs in July.
Middlesbrough mate said Wing is shit and not championship standard and to avoid.
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Post by hal9thou on Jun 19, 2023 10:04:42 GMT
Would be nice to get in early Corbs and get little bit of the cream instead of the dregs in July. Middlesbrough mate said Wing is shit and not championship standard and to avoid. right up our street then (re dosh: should be more available this time round via the sky deal, the new EPL subsidy and residual from the GR payoff. )
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Post by alanwycombe on Jun 30, 2023 15:35:32 GMT
Gone a bit quiet about new DOF…? If we’re having one he needs to be here soon I’d have thought.
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Post by The General on Jun 30, 2023 16:21:14 GMT
Agree who is the new Dof get a move on with this appointment
Spoke to guy today who is friends with Jim Floyd Hasslebank
JFH said that he was not allowed to choose any players when our manager
Les signed all the players and they were give to him to work with
Said it was totally bizarre that he had no input in any signings
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