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Post by Shania on Nov 8, 2024 9:29:46 GMT
Much of what have been debated now should suggest that bringing in a new manager will not change our situation imo. We simply have to wait for good news on the injury front.
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Post by hal9thou on Nov 8, 2024 9:39:19 GMT
. We simply have to wait for good news on the injury front. . Could be waiting a very long time. no one has the luxury of a long time in the championship. They’re only about three players who are turning up for him on a regular basis as things stand. They all look shot away. How long do you give this situation? That’s the reality. |
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Post by hubble on Nov 8, 2024 9:45:52 GMT
. We simply have to wait for good news on the injury front. . Could be waiting a very long time. no one has the luxury of a long time in the championship. They’re only about three players who are turning up for him on a regular basis as things stand. They all look shot away. How long do you give this situation? That’s the reality. On that basis, what difference would a new manager make? Unless they're a magical healer who can suddenly make everyone better, they're going to be faced with exactly the same problems. JCS, Colback Frey (and Dembele and Morrison) are going to come back at some point in the near future. Until that point, Marti needs to find a way to grind out games we have little hope of winning (like Leeds) and finding the edge that will make the difference on the winnable ones. It's not going to be pretty. But last season he managed it. It's doable.
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Post by hal9thou on Nov 8, 2024 9:54:49 GMT
. Could be waiting a very long time. no one has the luxury of a long time in the championship. They’re only about three players who are turning up for him on a regular basis as things stand. They all look shot away. How long do you give this situation? That’s the reality. On that basis, what difference would a new manager make? .
They might turn up for him. Keeping Marty is just as much of a punt as getting rid of him. said ages ago but once you’ve lost the dressing room the clock is ticking. And you lose the dressing room when everybody in it it’s has lost confidence in you. It’s stick or twist time. Ainsworth’s record was marginally worse when he deservedly got sacked. For the sake of consistency, I’’d give him three more games. |
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Post by Stanley75 on Nov 8, 2024 9:57:57 GMT
. Could be waiting a very long time. no one has the luxury of a long time in the championship. They’re only about three players who are turning up for him on a regular basis as things stand. They all look shot away. How long do you give this situation? That’s the reality. On that basis, what difference would a new manager make? Unless they're a magical healer who can suddenly make everyone better, they're going to be faced with exactly the same problems. JCS, Colback Frey (and Dembele and Morrison) are going to come back at some point in the near future. Until that point, Marti needs to find a way to grind out games we have little hope of winning (like Leeds) and finding the edge that will make the difference on the winnable ones. It's not going to be pretty. But last season he managed it. It's doable. But last season he didn't have the injury crisis he now has on his hands. So whilst he has more time to turn it around, this is possibly an even bigger test for him. Once again, January window could be key. I agree, our problems lie higher up the food chain than Marti, as I detailed in the "Who's to blame" thread. So am certainly not in the Marti out camp yet, or even close to it. |
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Post by hubble on Nov 8, 2024 10:13:54 GMT
On that basis, what difference would a new manager make? .
They might turn up for him. Keeping Marty is just as much of a punt as getting rid of him. said ages ago but once you’ve lost the dressing room the clock is ticking. And you lose the dressing room when everybody in it it’s has lost confidence in you. It’s stick or twist time. Ainsworth’s record was marginally worse when he deservedly got sacked. For the sake of consistency, I’’d give him three more games. How do you know he's 'lost the dressing room'?
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Post by hal9thou on Nov 8, 2024 11:52:47 GMT
They might turn up for him. Keeping Marty is just as much of a punt as getting rid of him. said ages ago but once you’ve lost the dressing room the clock is ticking. And you lose the dressing room when everybody in it it’s has lost confidence in you. It’s stick or twist time. Ainsworth’s record was marginally worse when he deservedly got sacked. For the sake of consistency, I’’d give him three more games. How do you know he's 'lost the dressing room'?
Because they've downed tools far too often this season. Lots of examples of not closing down, not tracking back, one man half arsed press. These are basics, irrespective of talent or lack of it. Classic symptoms. |
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Post by West Acton on Nov 8, 2024 11:55:17 GMT
On that basis, what difference would a new manager make? .
They might turn up for him. Keeping Marty is just as much of a punt as getting rid of him. said ages ago but once you’ve lost the dressing room the clock is ticking. And you lose the dressing room when everybody in it it’s has lost confidence in you. It’s stick or twist time. Ainsworth’s record was marginally worse when he deservedly got sacked. For the sake of consistency, I’’d give him three more games. the lost the dressing room claim is becoming bit boring, not dig at you, but everytime we have tough patch that’s thrown about. Why would he have lost dressing room? When we last won at Luton they were all floating on cloud nine we saw it in away end so why would he have lost it since then. Losing dressing room is just lazy talk |
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Post by West Acton on Nov 8, 2024 11:57:27 GMT
How do you know he's 'lost the dressing room'?
Because they've downed tools far too often this season. Lots of examples of not closing down, not tracking back, one man half arsed press. These are basics, irrespective of talent or lack of it. Classic symptoms. ok so he had dressing room against Sunderland four days before as they done all the above but he lost it in those days. Come on Hal keep it real. |
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Post by alanwycombe on Nov 8, 2024 12:06:19 GMT
He’s not said he’s ‘lost’ the dressing room, he’s just pointing out he’s heading that way if he’s not careful.
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Post by hal9thou on Nov 8, 2024 12:16:53 GMT
Because they've downed tools far too often this season. Lots of examples of not closing down, not tracking back, one man half arsed press. These are basics, irrespective of talent or lack of it. Classic symptoms. ok so he had dressing room against Sunderland four days before as they done all the above but he lost it in those days. Come on Hal keep it real. It's a process, dunno how many times you think they all been bang up for it for 90m this season (Sunderland included) - but me, I'm not seeing enough. Talking about the basics, the hard yards. No dis but that real enough for you? |
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Post by Bill on Nov 8, 2024 12:26:52 GMT
ok so he had dressing room against Sunderland four days before as they done all the above but he lost it in those days. Come on Hal keep it real. It's a process, dunno how many times you think they all been bang up for it for 90m this season (Sunderland included) - but me, I'm not seeing enough. Talking about the basics, the hard yards. No dis but that real enough for you? Somewhere between the two for me. I see established experienced pros having words with some of the newbies. Trying to bring that together when to be kind the likes of Celar,Madsen are not putting a shift in promotes disharmony Just like in any situation where you are giving it your best but your colleague or teamate isnt and struggling,very frustrating situation. Managers job i guess but if you have had no input on your new tools its hard to make it work. |
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Post by Stanley75 on Nov 8, 2024 13:08:00 GMT
Read an article suggesting there's tension between Cifuentes and Nourry because Marti had no input into who we brought in, they are all Nourry signings. Not sure how accurate that is to be honest. These vague rumours have been ongoing since the summer, but you'd assume Marti was happy as he signed a contract extension and Nourry offered it, so he must have been fairly happy too. But who knows. |
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Post by hubble on Nov 8, 2024 13:10:01 GMT
How do you know he's 'lost the dressing room'?
Because they've downed tools far too often this season. Lots of examples of not closing down, not tracking back, one man half arsed press. These are basics, irrespective of talent or lack of it. Classic symptoms. So in other words your 'lost the dressing room' comment is based purely on subjective observation. Not on actual 'evidence'.
I could equally subjectively say I've seen plenty of examples of the opposite from players..... it's more to do with which player, IMO. Madsen just doesn't do any of the things you highlight, but that's down to Madsen the player, not Marti losing the dressing room. Conversely, Saito is the complete opposite to Madsen and so is Smyth, so how does the 'lost the dressing room' scenario fit with them?
I haven't seen Cook or Dunne being half-arsed, nor Varane, nor Morgan. Nor Vardi. So......?
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Nov 8, 2024 13:35:59 GMT
What is clear is that Marti hasn't yet been able to get the players clicking as he would like.
Partly that is down to the players he has. As Bill suggests, you could probably have Fergie or Warnock at their peak giving Madsen the hairdryer treatment at half time, and I'm still not convinced that would turn Madsen into a Championship player.
I also think it has something to do with how he has set us up this season. For reasons I don't understand (and I've been banging on about this since pre-season) there has been a lack of fight and tenacity. We have just looked very passive. Almost like we are half asleep. After teams put everything into one season there is often a hangover. It feels like this is ours.
I like Marti and just don't see a point in repeating the madness of another sacking and more upheaval as the boost it gives you is so temporary and so expensive that longer term it destroys you. Marti and Nourry is where, finally, we have planted our flag and this is the hill we might well die on. But if we are to survive - or even go down fighting - Marti needs to gee up this team, and fast.
For me the first priority is to only play "characters". The likes of Madsen won't show up in a fist-fight. Even if it means playing less technically accomplished players you have to field players with the character of Jimmy Dunne - for all his obvious strengths and obvious flaws. Saito to start every game. Coleback (tho' not the answer in my book) also must start. Morgan because he wants it. Kolli over Celar. Alfie Lloyd over Andersen. Even get Lakarche back if necessary because he has spirit. And Hayden Jan 1.
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Post by alanwycombe on Nov 8, 2024 14:05:34 GMT
Agree that but the problem with ‘characters’ is that’s not the way Marti wants to play. He needs to learn this league as quickly, and as much, as the Madsens.
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Post by boboqpr on Nov 8, 2024 15:05:08 GMT
We miss Haydn so much. It waa a stupid choice not to bring him back.
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Post by Bill on Nov 8, 2024 15:47:31 GMT
Read an article suggesting there's tension between Cifuentes and Nourry because Marti had no input into who we brought in, they are all Nourry signings. Not sure how accurate that is to be honest. These vague rumours have been ongoing since the summer, but you'd assume Marti was happy as he signed a contract extension and Nourry offered it, so he must have been fairly happy too. But who knows. Happy for the contract and the dosh Stan,no brainer really. |
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Post by Stanley75 on Nov 8, 2024 15:55:40 GMT
These vague rumours have been ongoing since the summer, but you'd assume Marti was happy as he signed a contract extension and Nourry offered it, so he must have been fairly happy too. But who knows. Happy for the contract and the dosh Stan,no brainer really. Yes Bill, but the point being that this would put paid to these rumours of the alleged tensions between the two of them. |
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Nov 8, 2024 15:55:59 GMT
Agree that but the problem with ‘characters’ is that’s not the way Marti wants to play. He needs to learn this league as quickly, and as much, as the Madsens. Yes, but the weird thing is he seemed to learn that last season. Has he forgotten it? For example playing Jimmy at right back was a masterstroke. He achieved a real balance between ball players and tough nuts. I get that there might have been some complacency at the start of the season and maybe they thought "job done, now we can play purist football and be at the top end of the table." But it was pretty obvious to many of us very early on this season that we were no better than last season and in many respects worse. By now that must be obvious to a raving idiot. Much as I like Marti and even if we don't blame him for the transfers, its taken him longer than it should to realise we are in a street fight and need characters. |
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Post by Bill on Nov 8, 2024 16:23:37 GMT
Happy for the contract and the dosh Stan,no brainer really. Yes Bill, but the point being that this would put paid to these rumours of the alleged tensions between the two of them. Not really Stan,he wins either way in a job getting paid or gets sacked and we have another contract to pay. I think there is some truth in these rumours as i really cant see Marti picking these players,accept them and take what you can,success or failure he wins. The club loses bug time yet again due to negligence,just like the last lot. You really could not make it up. Nothing about Nourry suggests to me he knows about football,the championship or players required. He is a wannabe superstar in a hurry to make his name. Sadly the club and most of all the supporters,fans whatever you want to call them will suffer. He took on a mess and Marti got him and the club out of it. I am convinced he chose these players with very little knowledge so like Fernandes got his pants pulled down he has ad well. As in my thread we are in shit street because of this guy. Why bring in this silence approach,people will lose interest and the club will suffer. Takes a big man to admit mistakes,he isnt talks the talk but cant walk the walk. Roll on the next "Fans Engagement Evening"i will go and tell him straight but the questions i would put would be ruled out just like when i went to Question Time just cock and bull stories and conversations about catering and pie in the sky plans on top of lies. Its all staged. |
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Post by hal9thou on Nov 8, 2024 17:36:23 GMT
Because they've downed tools far too often this season. Lots of examples of not closing down, not tracking back, one man half arsed press. These are basics, irrespective of talent or lack of it. Classic symptoms. So in other words your 'lost the dressing room' comment is based purely on subjective observation. Not on actual 'evidence'.
I could equally subjectively say I've seen plenty of examples of the opposite from players..... it's more to do with which player, IMO. Madsen just doesn't do any of the things you highlight, but that's down to Madsen the player, not Marti losing the dressing room. Conversely, Saito is the complete opposite to Madsen and so is Smyth, so how does the 'lost the dressing room' scenario fit with them?
I haven't seen Cook or Dunne being half-arsed, nor Varane, nor Morgan. Nor Vardi. So......?
. Sure it’s subjective, none of it’s a science. I always liked Kiki, agreed 100% on that one, but his performances kind of highlight the lack of fight in others. And based on the well over 50 years subjective viewing, I associate a lack of commitment on the park with lost dressing room syndrome. What is not subjective is the proposition that keeping Marti could be more problematic than letting him go. |
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Post by Corbray on Nov 8, 2024 18:39:01 GMT
don't think marti has lost the dressing room at all but i do think the players are full of self doubt. you can always tell when players are low on confidence, they sit deep, they hoof the ball up the pitch and rarely press. none of them want to make a mistake and are second guessing everything they do, the more headstrong players like cook and chair will still give it their all but they end up fighting a losing battle.
think it'll all turn positive once we get that win and when players come back from injury though.
lots of finger pointing and rightfully so in most regards but personally i have full faith and belief in marti regardless of what happens this season. hopefully we turn it around but if we don't he should still be given the reigns to take us back up.
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Post by hal9thou on Nov 8, 2024 19:17:46 GMT
On what basis? Lovely bloke but tactics, strategy and motivational skills seem to have been missing since pre season. Just been watching these two and whatever you think of either, they are basically saying what we are all witnessing. |
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Post by West Acton on Nov 8, 2024 19:51:00 GMT
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Post by alanwycombe on Nov 9, 2024 0:25:34 GMT
On what basis? Lovely bloke but tactics, strategy and motivational skills seem to have been missing since pre season. Just been watching these two and whatever you think of either, they are basically saying what we are all witnessing. Could have been scripted from this board. |
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Post by acricketer on Nov 9, 2024 2:18:43 GMT
A couple more losses and he's a goner.
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Post by James1979 on Nov 9, 2024 7:58:05 GMT
On what basis? Lovely bloke but tactics, strategy and motivational skills seem to have been missing since pre season. Just been watching these two and whatever you think of either, they are basically saying what we are all witnessing. Could have been scripted from this board. Yeah that’s kind of where I am. You can moan about the signings, you can moan about Nourry and feel sorry for yourself due to the injuries but we’ve been poor basically all season. You can have rubbish players but you can at least show some sort of plan on the pitch. I see on LFW that it’s Nourry fault and Marti isn’t happy and being dictated too. I’m sorry but Marti picks the team. Marti coaches them. If he’s unhappy, then leave. Just do your fucking job. |
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Post by gtleighsr3 on Nov 9, 2024 7:59:05 GMT
I think the question we need to ask is what was cricketer posting on here at 2 in the morning, and if he just in , how was he sober enough to do so
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Post by alanwycombe on Nov 9, 2024 8:20:04 GMT
Could have been scripted from this board. Yeah that’s kind of where I am. You can moan about the signings, you can moan about Nourry and feel sorry for yourself due to the injuries but we’ve been poor basically all season. You can have rubbish players but you can at least show some sort of plan on the pitch. I see on LFW that it’s Nourry fault and Marti isn’t happy and being dictated too. I’m sorry but Marti picks the team. Marti coaches them. If he’s unhappy, then leave. Just do your fucking job. I have sympathy with Marti if the situation really is ‘work with what you’ve been given’. I had a instance in my career where I couldn’t do my job because of decisions made above me but I was able to defy and produce the outcome another way - he can’t suddenly make Madsen a beast or Celar a goal machine. He must change the way we play in the short term at least, we need points. Then he’ll probably get criticised for not playing the QPR way, whatever that is. |
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