|
|
Post by Stanley75 on Mar 26, 2024 17:12:30 GMT
Christianity is hardly that inclusive in Old Testament form. Historically Christianity has been as bad, if not very much worse, in its dealings with non-Christians. Difference being Christianity has been through a Reformation, unlike Islam. So it's comparing apples to oranges really. |
|
awin
Silver Seat
Posts: 1,765
|
Post by awin on Mar 26, 2024 17:15:50 GMT
All religions have factions, hard-liners, bigots and intolerance - Islam is not unique in that. Historically Christianity has been as bad, if not very much worse, in its dealings with non-Christians. I've looked up the Ramadam Tent Project and Open Iftar The Ramadan Tent Project organises the annual Ramadan Festival, which is a collection of artistic, cultural, creative events to inspire and engage audiences from all backgrounds, in addition to the UK’s largest community event in Ramadan, Open Iftar. Open Iftar is the UK’s largest community event in Ramadan. It invites people from all faiths, and no faith, from all walks of life to share 'breakfast' as the sun goes down. Its aim is to feed those in need, to increase community harmony, to soften hearts and minds, and turn strangers into friends. ‘Iftar’ is the meal that is prepared and offered to Muslims observing Ramadan when breaking their fast. Anything that promotes a bit of mutual respect and understanding has to be a good thing. Doesn't it? My only concern would be this in the current climate. www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/taqiyya.aspx |
|
|
|
Post by gtleighsr3 on Mar 26, 2024 17:20:15 GMT
The sooner ET turns up the better and says there is no god for any of you. We made all of you and your our experiment. Put an end to all this religion, as it causes more harm than good
|
|
|
|
Post by Stanley75 on Mar 26, 2024 17:20:17 GMT
Don’t see complaints when for Christmas period at home games it’s festive songs I don't understand why would there be complaints in a Christian country? The UK has a historical and cultural heritage deeply influenced by Christianity, and the Church of England is established as the state church in England. We're also a secular state, so we guarantee religious freedoms and don't officially endorse any religion as a state religion, except for the special status of the C of E in England. |
|
|
|
Post by alanwycombe on Mar 26, 2024 17:24:42 GMT
The sooner ET turns up the better and says there is no god for any of you. We made all of you and your our experiment. Put an end to all this religion, as it causes more harm than good You can debate the existence of God but there is no doubt that religions are an invention of man. Absurd to believe you are right and everyone else is wrong when no one can prove any version. |
|
|
|
Post by gtleighsr3 on Mar 26, 2024 17:24:54 GMT
Don’t see complaints when for Christmas period at home games it’s festive songs I don't understand why would there be complaints in a Christian country? The UK has a historical and cultural heritage deeply influenced by Christianity, and the Church of England is established as the state church in England. We're also a secular state, so we guarantee religious freedoms and don't officially endorse any religion as a state religion, except for the special status of the C of E in England. We are tolerant of other religions and beliefs, but hard line Muslims don’t reciprocate. Good bad in all , but why do we keep bending as it’s only going to bite us |
|
|
|
Post by 2Loftus on Mar 26, 2024 17:26:08 GMT
Christianity is hardly that inclusive in Old Testament form. Historically Christianity has been as bad, if not very much worse, in its dealings with non-Christians. Difference being Christianity has been through a Reformation, unlike Islam. So it's comparing apples to oranges really. But is it? As I understand it, the Reformation was 'Protestant' rather than 'Christian'... And frankly, it's hardly united the many and various branches of Christianity - Catholicism, Protestantism, Orthodoxy, Anglicanism. It arguably had the opposite effect. For example, Catholics and Protestants happily murdered each other for decades in Northern Ireland, and differences continue to exist today, bubbling under the surface. Similarly there are tensions/conflict between Shiite and Sunni Muslims across the Middle East. Can anyone argue that any one religion is somehow 'better' than another, or holds some kind of imaginary moral high ground? |
|
|
|
Post by Stanley75 on Mar 26, 2024 17:26:40 GMT
"British values" - not much agreement now on what that means. I'd say the cornerstones of British values are having a parliamentary democracy; upholding the Rule of Law; individual liberties including freedom of expression and having a free press; mutual respect and tolerance; equal treatment of all individuals, regardless of their race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, age, or disability. |
|
|
|
Post by itsonlyagame on Mar 26, 2024 17:26:54 GMT
Setting aside people’s opinions on Islam, is it really ok that the clubs tannoy should be blaring out a call to prayer so it’s deliberately heard within the surrounding area, not just the stadium.
As is the case these days, some people, not singling out Muslims btw, can’t just crack on and do their thing, it has to be turned into a song and dance and be rammed down other peoples throats.
|
|
|
|
Post by 2Loftus on Mar 26, 2024 17:30:58 GMT
I don't understand why would there be complaints in a Christian country? The UK has a historical and cultural heritage deeply influenced by Christianity, and the Church of England is established as the state church in England. We're also a secular state, so we guarantee religious freedoms and don't officially endorse any religion as a state religion, except for the special status of the C of E in England. Good bad in all , but why do we keep bending as it’s only going to bite us I think most people are tolerant of each other - and know many Muslims and Jews who are tolerant of Christians, Jews and those with no faith. But there are hard liners in all religions - not just Muslims - who don't reciprocate. |
|
|
|
Post by 2Loftus on Mar 26, 2024 17:33:25 GMT
"British values" - not much agreement now on what that means. I'd say the cornerstones of British values are having a parliamentary democracy; upholding the Rule of Law; individual liberties including freedom of expression and having a free press; mutual respect and tolerance; equal treatment of all individuals, regardless of their race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, age, or disability. Sounds good Stan. I suppose those rights would include the right to hire a venue to put on a festival where the local community is invited to share meal and learn a little bit about each other. |
|
|
|
Post by Stanley75 on Mar 26, 2024 17:33:27 GMT
Difference being Christianity has been through a Reformation, unlike Islam. So it's comparing apples to oranges really. But is it? As I understand it, the Reformation was 'Protestant' rather than 'Christian'... And frankly, it's hardly united the many and various branches of Christianity - Catholicism, Protestantism, Orthodoxy, Anglicanism. It arguably had the opposite effect. For example, Catholics and Protestants happily murdered each other for decades in Northern Ireland, and differences continue to exist today, bubbling under the surface. Similarly there are tensions/conflict between Shiite and Sunni Muslims across the Middle East. Can anyone argue that any one religion is somehow 'better' than another, or holds some kind of imaginary moral high ground? And yet the Reformation did make a lot of progressive strides. Stainrod brought up the Old Testament times. Christianity has obviously moved on much since then. Islam has not really had its equivalent reformation, being a much younger religion, but arguably it needs one for a multitude of reasons. I have certainly never argued that one religious is better or has any moral higher ground over another, Loftus. |
|
|
|
Post by Stanley75 on Mar 26, 2024 17:35:59 GMT
I'd say the cornerstones of British values are having a parliamentary democracy; upholding the Rule of Law; individual liberties including freedom of expression and having a free press; mutual respect and tolerance; equal treatment of all individuals, regardless of their race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, age, or disability. Sounds good Stan. I suppose those rights would include the right to hire a venue to put on a festival where the local community is invited to share meal and learn a little bit about each other. Yes, but as I said earlier, I think it really depends on whose initiative it was, for the reasons stated above. |
|
|
|
Post by West Acton on Mar 26, 2024 17:37:27 GMT
Don’t see complaints when for Christmas period at home games it’s festive songs I don't understand why would there be complaints in a Christian country? The UK has a historical and cultural heritage deeply influenced by Christianity, and the Church of England is established as the state church in England. We're also a secular state, so we guarantee religious freedoms and don't officially endorse any religion as a state religion, except for the special status of the C of E in England. Christian country when people want to cause division and in name only. My observations, from attending church, are fewer and fewer people are going. Those that go on regular basis are 60+ you don’t get youngsters at church anymore or the volume needed to keep the faith going. Christianity in this country is dying a slow death not because of Muslims, Hindus or immigration but because we brits given the choice would choose to go to the pub or sit on the sofa. So forgive me if I raise my eyes when people say it’s a Christian country we have more affiliation with American culture than Christianity. Anyway it’s a divisive subject and you won’t get me to agree with your views and I will probably end up falling out with people so I’m going step out. |
|
|
|
Post by stainrodisalegend on Mar 26, 2024 17:38:45 GMT
"British values" - not much agreement now on what that means. I'd say the cornerstones of British values are having a parliamentary democracy; upholding the Rule of Law; individual liberties including freedom of expression and having a free press; mutual respect and tolerance; equal treatment of all individuals, regardless of their race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, age, or disability. Would be happy with that definition. In which case we should show "respect and tolerance" for this expression of religious opinions, even if many of us may strongly disagree with those beliefs. |
|
|
|
Post by alanwycombe on Mar 26, 2024 17:40:58 GMT
I'd say the cornerstones of British values are having a parliamentary democracy; upholding the Rule of Law; individual liberties including freedom of expression and having a free press; mutual respect and tolerance; equal treatment of all individuals, regardless of their race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, age, or disability. Would be happy with that definition. In which case we should show "respect and tolerance" for this expression of religious opinions, even if many of us may strongly disagree with those beliefs. WE do. |
|
|
|
Post by stainrodisalegend on Mar 26, 2024 17:41:56 GMT
Er, some on here were saying it was a disgrace it was happening...
|
|
|
|
Post by Stanley75 on Mar 26, 2024 17:42:52 GMT
Christian country when people want to cause division and in name only. I disagree with this statement. I've tried to explain above why we're a Christian country as well as a secular one. It's possible to be both, although there is a distinction between England and the rest of the UK in that regard. |
|
|
|
Post by West Acton on Mar 26, 2024 17:44:33 GMT
Would be happy with that definition. In which case we should show "respect and tolerance" for this expression of religious opinions, even if many of us may strongly disagree with those beliefs. WE do. do we? What about how badly treated those two Jewish fellas were dealt with by borders? Spoken to and treated like shit because they were Jewish. That’s disgusting not tolerance. |
|
|
|
Post by West Acton on Mar 26, 2024 17:46:22 GMT
Christian country when people want to cause division and in name only. I disagree with this statement. I've tried to explain above why we're a Christian country as well as a secular one. It's possible to be both, although there is a distinction between England and the rest of the UK in that regard. which is your right and I’m fine with that but we don’t agree 🫱🏻🫲🏽 |
|
|
|
Post by alanwycombe on Mar 26, 2024 17:47:01 GMT
Er, some on here were saying it was a disgrace it was happening... But it still happens, it is embraced by many and very unlikely to be reciprocated if the shoe was on the other foot so I stand by my comment, WE do. |
|
|
|
Post by alanwycombe on Mar 26, 2024 17:49:30 GMT
do we? What about how badly treated those two Jewish fellas were dealt with by borders? Spoken to and treated like shit because they were Jewish. That’s disgusting not tolerance. not familiar with incident but guessing that’s related to what’s happening in Gaza. Not acceptable but not typical either. |
|
awin
Silver Seat
Posts: 1,765
|
Post by awin on Mar 26, 2024 17:50:49 GMT
Er, some on here were saying it was a disgrace it was happening... Not a disgrace but the call to prayer is insensitive at the very least. |
|
|
|
Post by gtleighsr3 on Mar 26, 2024 17:51:33 GMT
Tbf I think country has changed so much in last 20 years .
Now everyone seems to have a cause or feels the need, It’s like a fashion, but god help you if you don’t subscribe to their said opinion. Everyone has to be seen to be pro this pro that, and companies, institutions , media all either sheep or scared to say do different.
World has come along in so many ways that are great but still don’t enjoy what it is now.
|
|
|
|
Post by West Acton on Mar 26, 2024 17:55:24 GMT
do we? What about how badly treated those two Jewish fellas were dealt with by borders? Spoken to and treated like shit because they were Jewish. That’s disgusting not tolerance. not familiar with incident but guessing that’s related to what’s happening in Gaza. Not acceptable but not typical either. but you said ‘WE’ are tolerant?? Persuade that to the Jewish guys. With respect Al think you’re living with your hands over your eyes if you think such behaviour is not typical. |
|
|
|
Post by gtleighsr3 on Mar 26, 2024 17:56:54 GMT
not familiar with incident but guessing that’s related to what’s happening in Gaza. Not acceptable but not typical either. but you said ‘WE’ are tolerant?? Persuade that to the Jewish guys. With respect Al think you’re living with your hands over your eyes if you think such behaviour is not typical. do we know nationality of said border force folk? Not just natives work for them |
|
|
|
Post by West Acton on Mar 26, 2024 18:02:17 GMT
but you said ‘WE’ are tolerant?? Persuade that to the Jewish guys. With respect Al think you’re living with your hands over your eyes if you think such behaviour is not typical. do we know nationality of said border force folk? Not just natives work for them well it’s being investigated now so I’m sure it will come out GT but without profiling the one trapping sounded as English as they come. |
|
|
|
Post by gtleighsr3 on Mar 26, 2024 18:11:42 GMT
To emphasise my earlier point,
First we had black lives matters
Then the world is doomed unless we bankrupt everyone to save it climate crisis. Then came the gay bi I want to be he them she it time. Then Ukraine war become flavour of the need a crisis to throw behind. But no that was soon dropped in favour of all things Islam via a new war in the Middle East. Wonder what the next big one everyone will be out for?
|
|
|
|
Post by Shania on Mar 26, 2024 18:41:16 GMT
Speaking about religion: Kirill, the Patriarch of Moscow and all Rus, doesn't do the novel idea of the Christian religion any favour at all. He is Putin`s "protege" and has been for a long time now.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bill on Mar 26, 2024 19:17:12 GMT
All i know and see is standards in our country has dropped through the floor in the last 30 years or more.
|
|
