Ray Jones

Yes it is a tricky one. Had they dropped it, they would have been accused of being disrespectful, and with no regard for our past. Millwall have retired a shirt for their keeper who died suddenly. Clubs do it, although it is not necessarily about being a club legend, or we would have retired number 10 a long time ago.
I am not sure what the answer is, but perhaps as you say, just resting the shirt number is sufficient gesture. As an aside, of course he was not always 31, but I guess that is irrelevant.
Clubs do need to mark the passing of talent, and as you say, shirt numbers tend to be pretty meaningless nowadays.
All the talk of we need a 6 or we need an 8 - then we give Varane number 40, and our right back number 3 (as last year).

I wanted to say the same thing this morning.

As tragic as it was he was responsible for his own death and two others and would have faced a significant prison sentence if he had lived.

We should stop 'honouring' him in this manner.

Cant see what the problem is.

I am sure it is a comfort to his family,freinds and most at rangers that this continues.

I also think time to retire it but re statement that it was his own fault effectively - I thought he was a passenger in the car (stand to be corrected on that)? Oc if so he still had a partial responsibility as believe the law states it’s an offence to get into a car with a knowingly drunk driver. But if he was a passenger that considerably less his fault IMHO

For me, this tweet sums it up for me

x.com/JonBergdahl/status/1696068367084404861?t=nh9lHUvsLa2O1gBP0TqArw&s=19

If he was killed then I would have no issues but he killed and it doesn't sit right with me.

Have the club reached out to the families of the victims to understand their views?

If they have and they have their blessing then as much as I think we should end this there is a case for carrying on.

However, if they haven't then they should stop.

I think that's a fair position.

I know they won't, but they should publish the opinions of the victims' families confirming they are happy with the manner in which Ray Jones is remembered.

can’t agree with this. Jones was part of the QPR family hence why he’s remembered can’t see why club has to reach out further than that! how the club wished to remember a player is down to the club and family of Jones no one else.

When you have squad numbers at clubs which now go into the 60s their relevance is now gone. If club wanted stop doing it I’m not fussed but think as fans we got more to worry about regards the club above and beyond if number 31 is retired or not.

I started this molehill (probably a mistake) so I'll try to finish it before it becomes a mountain.

My point was not about the number - in fact I said it's totally fine to retire the number. What I raised is why and for how long do the club keep putting his name in the squad sheet, 20 years 25 years 100 years.?
 
Surely the point of naming him would be to honour his legacy or contribution to the club. Given that anyone under the age of 21 would have no living memory of him many and new fans will turn to Wiki or similar to find out about why he is "honoured" and the following is part of what they will read:

"Jones died in a car crash in East Ham in the early hours of 25 August 2007 when the vehicle he was driving collided with a bus. He had only become a licensed driver 23 days earlier. Two passengers in his car, Idris Olasupo and Jess Basilva, were also killed; Olasupo received a letter later that day, inviting him to Fulham's academy.
An inquest in April 2008 found that Jones had sped over a pedestrian crossing on the wrong side of the road, leading to a head-on collision. His death was recorded as an accident, but it was confirmed that had he survived, he would have been facing two charges of causing death by dangerous driving."

So we showed our respects at the time and for the last 17 years but what legacy or memory are the club trying to honour?. Someone who recklessly broke the law killing himself and 2 others in the process. So it is right that the family of the others who died should be consulted and it is also not a history that the club should want to "honour" ad infinitim. If he had survived he would probably have never played for us again as he served his time in prison. 

As a mark of respect to all involved I did not want to get into this level of detail but I can assure you that if you have experienced losing a close family member to boy racer showing no regard for others you would feel the same. 

Sorry again if I have upset anyone and RIP all 3 of the young people who lost their lives unnecessarily. Now back to football.

The reason I put in in inverted commas is that it's not the term I would use but which is most used nowadays.

Woke, in its traditional use, means awoken to the trials and tribulations faced by others to understand them as people or races but 'woke' in its current use means overtly politically correct and/or going excessively over the top with 'virtue signaling'.

If you don't think QPR, as a club, has been determined to be as 'woke'(in the accepted current use) as possible over the last 5 years you've not been paying attention.

You may agree with the position the club has embraced- that's your right - but for me you cannot set out to show how caring, thoughtful and 'right on' you are and not take into account the views of those affected in this case.

These posts for off topic thread not this one chaps 👍

This one’s about the shape of the team

Maybe new Ray Jones thread then?

You shouldn't apologise for raising the issue as it has created fascinating discussion and debate which is something the club have never carried out into the matter.

As you say in 3 years time it will be 2 decades since he died and no-one under 25 would have memories of seeing him play, in 10 years that becomes under 35 years old and in another 10 only those over 45 would have memories of him.

He was a QPR player but also a criminal who killed 2 people through his actions and if it had been just a few hours before that number would have been higher.

I think that's OTT  There was never a trial or conviction, and none of us know what went on in the vehicle, other than there were 5 young lads, and Ray Jones were driving said vehicle. He has no chance to defend himself against these allegations, neither then or now. So give it a rest, imo. 

If it pains the families of the other lads to see Ray being honoured by QPR, they should contact the club, and I'm sure they'll sort it out.

Why get offended on behalf of the perceived potential sensibilities of other people? Utterly insane, and exactly the types of discussions, that rile up people all over 'social' media.