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Post by Corbray on Nov 9, 2019 23:41:35 GMT
no idea whats happened the past 4 games or so but we've been extremely poor at times. nobody expected anything at leeds but the other 3 games are games that we should have won or at the very least put in a good performance.
no-one is making runs or looking for the pass unless its backwards and every throw in is the same, players seem to get as far away from the thrower as possible and today it cost us. we've made what ... 5 absolutely unacceptable schoolboy errors AT LEAST already this season which has cost us.
i know we play a high line so will get caught out but earlier in the season that wasn't so much of an issue as we were being entertained and outscoring opponents but now we're barely getting a sniff at goal and are disorganised in the attack.
thank god eze and wells are being pretty consistent as the other players seem to switch off or fuck up.
we need another coach as others have said as our current coaches aren't doing anything to sort out our defence. warburton keeps getting his subs wrong too whereas before his subs came at the right time for the right person. i don't understand how scowen stays so involved in the 1st team when most of the time we seem to struggle whenever he comes on, he always looks so out of place and makes me nervous everytime hes near the ball.
this isn't a warburton out post either as i would have ripped your arms off at the start of the season for this kind of position in the league. we've just slipped massively off the pace and aren't showing any signs of improvement.
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72bus
Silver Seat
Posts: 1,070
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Post by 72bus on Nov 10, 2019 0:58:08 GMT
We did ok today against a strong physical team , we'll finish mid table in what seems a very ordinary league... It's the passing back to the keeper that does my nut in
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Post by Timmy Doc on Nov 10, 2019 6:57:59 GMT
We will be in the relegation zone by January.
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Post by West Acton on Nov 10, 2019 7:03:11 GMT
We will be in the relegation zone by January. as in bottom three or in the fight? |
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Post by Timmy Doc on Nov 10, 2019 7:06:18 GMT
Fight. We are about eight points above the zone. That's not very much.
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Post by gtleighsr3 on Nov 10, 2019 9:09:25 GMT
We not got a good enough squad to play flair football and keep it tight, we either need to buy some serious defenders and carry on with style. Or give it up and play boring all-in the box try and keep clean sheet games. We cant keep hoping to outscore sides
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Post by esoxlucius on Nov 10, 2019 11:34:42 GMT
We not got a good enough squad to play flair football and keep it tight, we either need to buy some serious defenders and carry on with style. Or give it up and play boring all-in the box try and keep clean sheet games. We cant keep hoping to outscore sides I am guessing you don't go to many games if you would be happy with " play boring all-in the box try and keep clean sheet games". |
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Post by West Acton on Nov 10, 2019 12:35:55 GMT
Football when it all comes down to it is about winning not entertaining. If you can have both then your winning
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Post by BrightonR on Nov 10, 2019 12:51:49 GMT
Generally way too slow in moving the ball forwards, giving teams plenty of time to re-organise.
Not Kane’s greatest fan, but I maintain that we haven’t seen anything like the best of him due to him never, ever getting the ball early enough and rarely in the right area. Always seems to have to check his run to get the ball played behind him rather than in front to run on to. Brought about mainly by trying to find Eze as the default ball, as opposed to when most effective. Reminds me of how we attempted to channel most of the play through Freeman.
And why on earth does it often seem as though returning the ball to Lumley seems a preferred option for some whilst in our own half? Particularly based upon the number of times that either has, or has very nearly cost us goals. The less time that fella spends anywhere near the ball would be far better in my opinion. I fully appreciate that Warburton doesn’t just want him booting the ball upfield, but if he just plays it out so we can play a couple of triangles before it goes back to him to do just that due to being under pressure, he may as well have tried something different in the first place. Perhaps like throwing the ball out to a teammate earlier, rather than clutching it to his chest for several valuable seconds, whilst spotting all the opportunities he has already missed.
Thoroughly fed up watching that crap yesterday. Certainly one of the poorest games of football I have witnessed from us this season.
Definitely need to sharpen up our attacking instincts, whilst obviously still trying to sort out the seemingly never ending debacle that is our defence.
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Post by esoxlucius on Nov 10, 2019 12:52:18 GMT
Football when it all comes down to it is about winning not entertaining. If you can have both then your winning I still don't want to go to games where we are lumping up the pitch to target man. I am more than happy with this season. |
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Post by West Acton on Nov 10, 2019 13:49:53 GMT
Football when it all comes down to it is about winning not entertaining. If you can have both then your winning I still don't want to go to games where we are lumping up the pitch to target man. I am more than happy with this season. neither do I but if push comes to shove and you have mix it up to get a result so be it With greatest of respects don’t think this season has been half as entertaining as you make out. Glimpses of lovely stuff, like Luton at home, but aside from that it’s been regular season. The inflated league position has camouflaged, in my opinion, what we have seen and watched |
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Post by esoxlucius on Nov 10, 2019 13:56:21 GMT
I still don't want to go to games where we are lumping up the pitch to target man. I am more than happy with this season. neither do I but if push comes to shove and you have mix it up to get a result so be it With greatest of respects don’t think this season has been half as entertaining as you make out. Glimpses of lovely stuff, like Luton at home, but aside from that it’s been regular season. The inflated league position has camouflaged, in my opinion, what we have seen and watched Stoke, Hull, Blackburn, are just those that spring immediately to mind. We are one of the top goal scorers this season and have a top Championship player in our side. I don't think I imagined anything to be honest. |
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Post by West Acton on Nov 10, 2019 14:06:44 GMT
Raise you West Brom, Brentford, Reading, first half against Wigan and second half at Bristol city, Leeds
Football better then majority expected and it’s welcome but there have been as many average performances (nothing wrong with that as no team is perfect) as good
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Post by esoxlucius on Nov 10, 2019 14:15:17 GMT
Raise you West Brom, Brentford, Reading, first half against Wigan and second half at Bristol city, Leeds Football better then majority expected and it’s welcome but there have been as many average performances (nothing wrong with that as no team is perfect) as good Considering that we were nailed on relegation certainties before the first game of the season even an average performance is exceeding expectations. For a team that cost fuck all but wages and had never played together until the first game of the season I don't see any reason for them being picked apart and criticised as much as they have been. They aren't above criticism and the defence is non existent at times but it is still SOOOOO much better than what was expected. If we ever managed to name the same players for a few game sin a row then we may see the defence improve a little but that hasn't happened so it is hardly surprising that we are shipping goals at a rate of nearly 2 a game. There are still many,many positives to be taken from the team performances this season, goals in nearly every game, far superior set pieces than we have been used to for many a season, youngsters who are really entertaining footballers and a striker who may well reach the mythical 20 this season if we can keep hold of him and keep him fit. |
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Post by West Acton on Nov 10, 2019 14:19:48 GMT
Not nailed on for relegation at any point in my view, but maybe that was yours
Agree 100% with you many positives which I chuffed with and also plenty areas to work and improve upon. We will get better I have no doubt about it
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Post by esoxlucius on Nov 10, 2019 14:25:14 GMT
Not nailed on for relegation at any point in my view, but maybe that was yours Agree 100% with you many positives which I chuffed with and also plenty areas to work and improve upon. We will get better I have no doubt about it Not nailed on by us but the betting companies. I thought we would finish above 20th due to all the changes but felt Wells would come good for us. I am still of the opinion that this is season one in a 3-4 year rebuild and next season really should see improvements as we will be financially better off than we have been for a number of years. I am not so sure much will happen in January as Lee Hoos has said before that he is not a fan of the January window as it inflates prices and puts the buying clubs in a quandary if they are bought in an attempt to secure promotion or avoid relegation and it fails. |
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Post by shepherdsmush on Nov 10, 2019 15:16:24 GMT
If you let in 2 goals a game every week then you will soon find yourself in the bottom 6.
Defensive side of our game, and I'm including the midfield in this, is absolutely shocking.
I don't care if players cost fuck all, every player should be able to do the basics and defensively we simply are not.
Plaudits galore to actually having a QPR side that can create and score goals but we need to find that ability to pressure opponents when we don't have the ball.
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Post by Stanley75 on Nov 10, 2019 16:37:42 GMT
I don't care if players cost fuck all, every player should be able to do the basics and defensively we simply are not. This! |
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Post by esoxlucius on Nov 10, 2019 17:11:21 GMT
I don't care if players cost fuck all, every player should be able to do the basics and defensively we simply are not. This! But yesterday can't be laid at the feet of basics can it? Manning and Wallace in a communication breakdown and Wells with a very poor choice of a back pass (which he has since apologised for). You can't do any drills or watch videos to prevent what happened yesterday. |
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Post by hal9thou on Nov 10, 2019 17:55:21 GMT
Manning and Wallace in a communication breakdown Which proves the point.... one I've been trying to get across to you for a long time: it isn't solely about the player quality. It's about knowing the drills, calling the line, and keeping decent cover. All of which = coaching. We can improve at the back without reverting to hoofball. I also happen to think MW is tactically a little bit naive but I don't mind that. I do mind when problems with solutions are being ignored. |
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Post by shepherdsmush on Nov 10, 2019 19:17:21 GMT
But yesteray can't be laid at the feet of basics can it? Manning and Wallace in a communication breakdown and Wells with a very poor choice of a back pass (which he has since apologised for). You can't do any drills or watch videos to prevent what happened yesterday. Of course it can. Basic knowledge not to pass a difficult 30 yard ball back when no-one is expecting it and similarly it is basic knowledge to not stop running when you could still put a challenge in to an opponent. |
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Post by esoxlucius on Nov 11, 2019 8:16:58 GMT
But yesteray can't be laid at the feet of basics can it? Manning and Wallace in a communication breakdown and Wells with a very poor choice of a back pass (which he has since apologised for). You can't do any drills or watch videos to prevent what happened yesterday. Of course it can. Basic knowledge not to pass a difficult 30 yard ball back when no-one is expecting it and similarly it is basic knowledge to not stop running when you could still put a challenge in to an opponent. You could say then that it is basic knowledge that you should have a settled back line that all know each others game and play as a unit. How many defenders have we used already this season? Saturday was only Wallace's second start and that also meant that Manning has been changed from a role he was learning back into midfield. There is a lot wrong with the defence as it stands but the lack of stability in the starters means it won't be getting better any time soon IMO. Tangentially; the insistence on playing the ball out from the back has drawn a lot of criticism from fans who just want to see us lumping the ball upfield or into touch, if there is the slightest danger of losing possession. I have given this some thought and I wonder if this could be a part of the clubs development program so that we can sell on players for more money to clubs who have adopted the possession based, snappy passing style of modern football. I know that for the last three seasons at least, the U16's. U18's & U23's has all been about getting the players to play in the same style as the first team and the results are considered unimportant compared to the performance of the individuals. Could there be an element of that approach in the way the first team play? as long as we are safe the result is less important than the style of play. A dangerous policy but possibly explained that the club needs to sell players for good money so that we can become financially self sufficient. Just food for thought. |
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Post by West Acton on Nov 11, 2019 8:42:55 GMT
Manning played exactly where he played all season there was no change. He’s been making those mistakes since first game of the season.
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Post by hubble on Nov 11, 2019 8:55:06 GMT
Interesting theory/fact Esox. I suppose if we're being pragmatic then there needs to be a combination of both good basic defensive technique to suit the situation on the pitch in the moment along with developing the modern style of play. Sticking rigidly to one system isn't working.
However, as you say, we've not had a settled back line for weeks and that creates its own problems which are nothing to do with style of play. I still think Kane will come good and Wallace looks like the real deal, so if Leistner/Hall/Barbet can stay fit then things should improve.
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Post by West Acton on Nov 11, 2019 9:10:43 GMT
Agree Hubs initial thoughts of Wallace having seen him was he was improvement. Liked look of him
Perhaps hall right Wallace left and barbet in middle of the three as ball playing sweeper night work
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Post by croydoncaptainjack on Nov 11, 2019 9:20:29 GMT
Not nailed on for relegation at any point in my view, but maybe that was yours Agree 100% with you many positives which I chuffed with and also plenty areas to work and improve upon. We will get better I have no doubt about it Second favourites for relegation with the bookies though Westie. I think we are in a bit of a bad patch at the moment but teams have them in this division. We are probably about where we will finish in the table now I reckon which would be progress. |
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Post by shepherdsmush on Nov 11, 2019 9:22:17 GMT
You could say then that it is basic knowledge that you should have a settled back line that all know each others game and play as a unit. Good defensive coaching should enable all defenders to be able to play alongside each other so that in the event of one being injured another can slot into place with minimal disruption. IMO we simply haven't got a proper defensive coach and haven't had one for years. |
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Post by West Acton on Nov 11, 2019 9:23:01 GMT
Get that bookies said that but I’m talking about own personal opinion CCJ never thought we were certs go down
Decent manager, reasonable squad so middle table was my view
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Post by spongeparr on Nov 11, 2019 10:39:03 GMT
We are having a bad spell. I am confident it is only a spell and we aren't a bad side.
Some criticism seems harsh on individuals but there is something to be said about going into November and still not a clean sheet.
I think we do look best in a 352 formation.
Lumley
Hall Barbet Wallace
Kane Manning
Ball/Cameron
Amos/Chair (though I think he needs a rest) Eze
Hugill Wells.
Thats the team (more or less) that started against Luton where we tore them a new one.
We are playing poorly for 4 or so games, yet we are still only 2 off play offs.
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Post by hal9thou on Nov 11, 2019 10:57:06 GMT
I don't think we have the skill set for a 3/5 back line vs anyone half decent. We can't keep the ball out of our own net, so back to basics.
If you haven't got the quality, go 4. It simplifies the drills, makes holding a line way easier.
Having said that there's very little evidence that anyone at the club is capable of coaching any type of back line, and for me that is what really needs addressing.
It's almost as though we don't want to take advantage of this inconsistent division...
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