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Post by The General on Nov 24, 2019 12:28:29 GMT
its its fairly obvious to all that it is not working playing from the back we have lost so many games because of this and lumley
The simple answer to solve this crap situation is to STOP
it doesn't work and will not work going forward
Warbs needs to wake up take it on the chin and change it back ASAP
Cannot afford for this the keep happening game after game
Even though our defence is shit it will help the situation alot
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Post by The General on Nov 24, 2019 12:29:39 GMT
If it doesn't work Change It
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Post by The General on Nov 24, 2019 12:35:56 GMT
Everything about the team is great apart from playing from the back
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Defending
Nov 24, 2019 12:37:52 GMT
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Post by gtleighsr3 on Nov 24, 2019 12:37:52 GMT
Prince Andrew has shown a better defense of late
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Post by The General on Nov 24, 2019 12:42:36 GMT
Our defence is about as good as Andrew Pizzaexpress Woking yarn
Unconvincing rubbish
However I think the rest of the team is great Amos proper class yesterday
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Post by The General on Nov 24, 2019 12:44:40 GMT
When that ball comes back to Lumley it needs to be kicked up to the half way line directionally
Side footing it to a player on the six yard box is a total Nono
It's easy to solve ffs
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2019 20:24:00 GMT
Game after game same mistakes and conceding same type of goals.
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Defending
Nov 26, 2019 9:04:47 GMT
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Post by alanwycombe on Nov 26, 2019 9:04:47 GMT
On another thread you can see I'm not a fan of US playing out from the back but the point has been made that teams play this way now. I'm no coach, and you don't have to be to see one massive difference between us and the Man Citys of this world who make it work - movement. For some reason over recent years our teams are pretty static, waiting for something to happen. To play out you need players making space, making runs - things we don't do so moves break down or we get caught in possession. I still don't think our defenders are good enough at passing but if other players moved about quicker they wouldn't be under so much pressure.
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Post by Stanley75 on Nov 26, 2019 11:00:06 GMT
On another thread you can see I'm not a fan of US playing out from the back but the point has been made that teams play this way now. I'm no coach, and you don't have to be to see one massive difference between us and the Man Citys of this world who make it work - movement.Yes, and as Hal says - cover. |
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Defending
Nov 26, 2019 11:01:54 GMT
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Post by itsonlyagame on Nov 26, 2019 11:01:54 GMT
On another thread you can see I'm not a fan of US playing out from the back but the point has been made that teams play this way now. I'm no coach, and you don't have to be to see one massive difference between us and the Man Citys of this world who make it work - movement. For some reason over recent years our teams are pretty static, waiting for something to happen. To play out you need players making space, making runs - things we don't do so moves break down or we get caught in possession. I still don't think our defenders are good enough at passing but if other players moved about quicker they wouldn't be under so much pressure. That is definitely a major part of the problem. Footballers at championship level should be more than capable of passing the ball 10 yards, even defenders. It’s when they’ve got limited options or are in a tight space where it all unravels. It’s either straight back to the keeper or panic. That’s not the players fault who has the ball, that’s his team mates. |
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Post by Stanley75 on Nov 26, 2019 11:08:01 GMT
That is definitely a major part of the problem. Footballers at championship level should be more than capable of passing the ball 10 yards, even defenders. It’s when they’ve got limited options or are in a tight space where it all unravels. It’s either straight back to the keeper or panic. That’s not the players fault who has the ball, that’s his team mates. Which brings us back to the confidence issue mentioned on the other thread. When teams concede as many goals as us then confidence is inevitably affected. Then when confidence is low, players stop offering for the ball and hide. We see this when it comes to throw-ins too. It all becomes a vicious cycle, with the obvious solution to treat the problem from the root cause. How many games can you go on losing and shipping this many goals before you decide to change your approach to games? |
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Post by itsonlyagame on Nov 26, 2019 11:54:54 GMT
That is definitely a major part of the problem. Footballers at championship level should be more than capable of passing the ball 10 yards, even defenders. It’s when they’ve got limited options or are in a tight space where it all unravels. It’s either straight back to the keeper or panic. That’s not the players fault who has the ball, that’s his team mates. Which brings us back to the confidence issue mentioned on the other thread. When teams concede as many goals as us then confidence is inevitably affected. Then when confidence is low, players stop offering for the ball and hide. We see this when it comes to throw-ins too. It all becomes a vicious cycle, with the obvious solution to treat the problem from the root cause. How many games can you go on losing and shipping this many goals before you decide to change your approach to games? I get what you’re saying Stan. But if we stop playing out from the back for now, at what stage do we go back to it, or are you saying ditch it completely and go back to hitting it long, essentially percentages football. Warbs has openly admitted we’ll make plenty of mistakes along the way but the players will learn from them. I agree to a point regarding confidence but I personally think it’s more about lack of movement due to the players not having got to grips with the system yet. If it is down to confidence then we’re in a bit of a chicken/egg situation. If the team work together and show more movement then each player will have more confidence to receive the ball, knowing they have an outlet. We either persevere with it and hope that’s the case or abandon that philosophy and revert back to plan B. There isn’t really an option for us to dip our toes into the whole passing out from the back thing from time to time. To get to grips with it and iron out the mistakes, it has to be played over and over again, in a real pressure scenario, which means match days. |
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Post by Stanley75 on Nov 26, 2019 12:31:51 GMT
or are you saying ditch it completely and go back to hitting it long I'd say the middle way Itso, as others have suggested. Certainly never return to long ball (unless there's a good pass on), but there are other ways to play a possession based game other than the constant passing it around between the back five. Instead just use the CDM's more like Amos, Ball and Cameron (when he plays there). Let them make themselves available to receive, keep it simple and give it short to them. They're comfortable on the ball too, but it's away from the danger areas. |
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Defending
Nov 26, 2019 13:14:11 GMT
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Post by itsonlyagame on Nov 26, 2019 13:14:11 GMT
or are you saying ditch it completely and go back to hitting it long I'd say the middle way Itso, as others have suggested. Certainly never return to long ball (unless there's a good pass on), but there are other ways to play a possession based game other than the constant passing it around between the back five. Instead just use the CDM's more like Amos, Ball and Cameron (when he plays there). Let them make themselves available to receive, keep it simple and give it short to them. They're comfortable on the ball too, but it's away from the danger areas. But isn’t the constant passing around at the back due to a lack of options to pass to further up the pitch. I can’t believe the manager has told them to pass it any more than they need to in front of their own goal. There’s absolutely no point in doing that, even if they did have the ability. |
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Post by Stanley75 on Nov 26, 2019 13:30:55 GMT
But isn’t the constant passing around at the back due to a lack of options to pass to further up the pitch. Probably, yes. But then that's surely down to the midfielders to make themselves more available to receive it. So why are they not doing more about that? Why are they not making those runs to make themselves available? Again, all roads lead back to the system the team is being instructed to play in to begin with. Football is a simple game when played right, but too often made unnecessarily over-complicated. |
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Defending
Nov 26, 2019 14:10:01 GMT
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Post by itsonlyagame on Nov 26, 2019 14:10:01 GMT
But isn’t the constant passing around at the back due to a lack of options to pass to further up the pitch. Probably, yes. But then that's surely down to the midfielders to make themselves more available to receive it. So why are they not doing more about that? Why are they not making those runs to make themselves available? Again, all roads lead back to the system the team is being instructed to play in to begin with. Football is a simple game when played right, but all too often made over-complicated, unnecessarily. [br I totally agree, it is down to the midfielders to make themselves available. The reason they aren’t is anyone’s guess but more likely than not it’s down to them still getting to grips with the system. Unless the whole team, or at least the defence and midfield are organised and switched on when the ball is passed out from Lumley then it will end up with us losing possession or offloading the ball like a hot potato, back to Lumley, who, lets face it, is a terrible kicker. Every system will fail if not implemented properly by the players which takes us back to whether a manager should play a system to suit the players or teach the players to play a system. In this instance I think there is scope for the players to adapt. They’re not being asked to run faster, or suddenly use their weaker foot to cross a ball. The system Warbs is playing requires a good first touch and being able to pass the ball accurately over a relatively short distance. And for the players who don’t have the ball to make an angle to receive the ball. The first two attributes should be bread and butter to footballers at this level and to be honest so should the third but the players clearly need further coaching on that one. Don’t get me wrong, the old adage ‘if in doubt get it out’ still needs to apply but the current system is taking time to work. Saying it’s a lost cause at this stage is premature imo. |
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Post by Stanley75 on Nov 26, 2019 14:44:30 GMT
the current system is taking time to work. Saying it’s a lost cause at this stage is premature imo. I totally agree, but after conceding 11 goals (and no wins) in the last 5 games, it would be good to at least see some indication that the problem is being addressed, particularly when you consider our such strong position in the league prior to that. |
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Post by Rangers77 on Nov 26, 2019 15:18:31 GMT
How about a compromise? When no one's open the keeper punts it?
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Deleted
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Defending
Nov 26, 2019 16:44:14 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2019 16:44:14 GMT
the current system is taking time to work. Saying it’s a lost cause at this stage is premature imo. I totally agree, but after conceding 11 goals (and no wins) in the last 5 games, it would be good to at least see some indication that the problem is being addressed, particularly when you consider our such strong position in the league prior to that. Unfortunately Stan there has been zero imptovement defensively since day one. All the nice football will mean sod all unless we stop gifting goals every game. |
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Defending
Nov 26, 2019 18:54:22 GMT
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Post by West Acton on Nov 26, 2019 18:54:22 GMT
How about a compromise? When no one's open the keeper punts it? exactly it’s not system/style it’s game management and choices |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2019 19:01:24 GMT
The defending and lack of awareness and positioning by our defence when defending our goal is beyond poor and game by game it is showing no signs of any improvement. How after 3 months in have we not addressed this.
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72bus
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Post by 72bus on Nov 27, 2019 0:54:03 GMT
Playing it around at the back just let's teams regain their shape , get it forward quickly . When we lose it the likes of eze must track back and harrass , hurry , jockey the opposition ... Against Fulham we run out of steam and failed to press them in the 2nd half... Players have to want to do better for 90 mins . I went Friday nite and saw eze and Manning limply jogging back when we were under the cosh .. not good enough and not acceptable
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Defending
Nov 27, 2019 8:47:58 GMT
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Post by West Acton on Nov 27, 2019 8:47:58 GMT
72 glad you picked up on Mannings general lacklustre efforts to recover, that was not one off at Fulham its every game, was starting to think I was a lone observer of this. He has been given an awful lot of rope by fanbase
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Post by esoxlucius on Nov 27, 2019 9:23:47 GMT
72 glad you picked up on Mannings general lacklustre efforts to recover, that was not one off at Fulham its every game, was starting to think I was a lone observer of this. He has been given an awful lot of rope by fanbase Well, we DO have the fans to hang him... and any other player if neccessary. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2019 13:49:27 GMT
If Manning is guilty game after game why are the coaching staff not sorting this out? Seems like it is ok to be sloppy as long as you can pass it out from the back.
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Post by Hitman34 on Nov 27, 2019 14:00:42 GMT
On another thread you can see I'm not a fan of US playing out from the back but the point has been made that teams play this way now. I'm no coach, and you don't have to be to see one massive difference between us and the Man Citys of this world who make it work - movement. For some reason over recent years our teams are pretty static, waiting for something to happen. To play out you need players making space, making runs - things we don't do so moves break down or we get caught in possession. I still don't think our defenders are good enough at passing but if other players moved about quicker they wouldn't be under so much pressure. All this playing out from the back is just the latest fad. just like the one man kicking off last season, one team does it, wins a couple of games then, everyone else jumps on the bandwagon. We just need to clear our lines, then win the ball further up the pitch and then, let our midfielders and strikers to the fancy dan passing. leisner and hall are not farking maldini ffs |
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Defending
Nov 27, 2019 18:09:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2019 18:09:00 GMT
Spotlight well and truly on us tonight defensively.
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Post by shepherdsmush on Nov 28, 2019 9:46:21 GMT
Glaring issue for me is the CB pairing. Barbet frightens the life out of me, as does Hall. I think the BFG and Wallace may potentially be the best pairing we've got but we MUST go for at least one new CB (preferably pacy) in January, along with an experienced keeper.
Wouldnt mind seeing in January
-----------------------New Keeper----------------------
Kane----------------BFG---------New CB----------Wallace
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Post by alanwycombe on Nov 28, 2019 10:03:25 GMT
How about we make the priority a defensive coach? These players aren't this bad all of a sudden, they are better than we are seeing at the moment. Over to you DOF.
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Defending
Nov 28, 2019 17:31:49 GMT
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Post by West Acton on Nov 28, 2019 17:31:49 GMT
I Like BFG but he’s struggling. Hall always been average player hence why I call him hesitant Hall. He was carried by Ned and ned got the flack for Halls shortcomings.
Barbet I do rate but he has bit of calamity about him and not seen enough of Wallace judge yet. Kane seems up and down and lacks consistency and Manning is awful defender.
Others then that were rock solid
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