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Post by jfrabbit on Mar 18, 2024 20:58:20 GMT
Ainsworth and the club starting with the forwards we had could possibly ruin us for years to come if we don't survive, although I'm confident we will.
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Post by alanwycombe on Mar 19, 2024 8:11:13 GMT
True, but we weren't exactly a model of success when Warbs took over. We had finished 19th in the table I believe with one win in 15 games under McClaren. Big fan of Marti's but Warbs an under-appreciated manager for us and if there was a power-struggle between him, Les and Ramsay they should have backed Warbs IMHO. Les and Ramsay were sacked way too late as their failings were all too obvious before things turned sour with Warbs. Was never a big fan of MW, I thought his football most of the time was like him, boring and predictable. He didn’t have another level himself so wasn’t going to take us to one, but good point about what it might have been like without the dynamic duo. |
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Mar 19, 2024 10:26:30 GMT
Please don't get me wrong, I'm a massive fan of Marti to date and if he pulls off the great escape he deserves all the plaudits. But it is very early days. A lot of fans on here were absolutely creaming themselves over Beale early doors and look how that ended. Just think a manager needs to be in place a while before you make a full assessment. In politics they say "all careers end in failure". With a few great exceptions like Alex Ferguson (or El Tel for us) that is usually how it ends in football too. Warburton's reputation took a bad knock due to the last half of his last season but judging his overall managerial career with us he was easily our best manager between Neil and Marti IMHO. Its all "what ifs" now but he was clearly de-motivated the last half of that season after he lost a boardroom power struggle. Don't think we would have gone up but think without that classic "Rangers shoot themselves in the foot" moment we would have finished the season in a very strong position.
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Post by Stanley75 on Mar 19, 2024 11:03:29 GMT
So you're basically saying that the on-field decline we had from that January onwards was mainly caused by off-field problems behind the scenes. I'd argue that's largely speculative Stains. Yes there were probably tensions between him and LF but correlation is not always causation.
For the record, I agree with you that Warbs was the best manager we had had since Warnock and posted that at the time.
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Post by Shania on Mar 19, 2024 11:10:38 GMT
Warburton was just an upgrade from Holloway nothing more, imo. He had no plan B.
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Post by 2Loftus on Mar 19, 2024 11:35:47 GMT
Warburton was just an upgrade from Holloway nothing more, imo. He had no plan B. Have to disagree Shania. He made steady progress in difficult circumstances, while getting the wage bill down. Squad and fans were happy, he steadied the ship and oversaw the most settled period we've had in years (decades?). If he had been backed by the club, I think progress would have continued and we would never have been in the position we find ourselves today. Shame the club were so disloyal to him and didn't offer him a new contract. All of that said, if we survive this season, I do think Marti is an 'upgrade'. |
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Mar 19, 2024 11:47:07 GMT
So you're basically saying that the on-field decline we had from that January onwards was mainly caused by off-field problems behind the scenes. I'd argue that's largely speculative Stains. Yes there were probably tensions between him and LF but correlation is not always causation. And for the record, I agree with you that Warbs was the best manager we had had since Warnock and I posted that at the time. You make fair points. We can't be certain. For sure there were other factors - Chair looked half the player after coming back from AFCON I seem to remember? But a certain amount has since come out about that power struggle and it does sound to have got quite bitter. It was an open secret for the last couple of months of the season that his contract wasn't being renewed - that alone shows it wasn't a happy ship. |
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Post by Corbray on Mar 19, 2024 11:49:22 GMT
warbs was great for us especially with the benefit of hindsight. really steadied the ship and had us consistently midtable if not looking upwards rather than over our shoulder.
we had a very good squad under him too tbh and played some nice football, i think we were the second highest scorers in the league for one season.
didn't have a plan B though although he did change us to a back 3. only issue with him was his consistency, always felt like we were on a run of losses followed by a run of wins. limited midtable type manager but we still had fun times under him imo.
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Post by Shania on Mar 19, 2024 12:06:39 GMT
Warburton was just an upgrade from Holloway nothing more, imo. He had no plan B. Have to disagree Shania. He made steady progress in difficult circumstances, while getting the wage bill down. Squad and fans were happy, he steadied the ship and oversaw the most settled period we've had in years (decades?). If he had been backed by the club, I think progress would have continued and we would never have been in the position we find ourselves today. Shame the club were so disloyal to him and didn't offer him a new contract. All of that said, if we survive this season, I do think Marti is an 'upgrade'. On a second thought: I think you are spot on with this assessment. All the misery we have endured since his departure seem to have clouded my mind quite much. |
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Post by alanwycombe on Mar 19, 2024 13:20:09 GMT
Warburton was just an upgrade from Holloway nothing more, imo. He had no plan B. Have to disagree Shania. He made steady progress in difficult circumstances, while getting the wage bill down. Squad and fans were happy, he steadied the ship and oversaw the most settled period we've had in years (decades?). If he had been backed by the club, I think progress would have continued and we would never have been in the position we find ourselves today. Shame the club were so disloyal to him and didn't offer him a new contract. All of that said, if we survive this season, I do think Marti is an 'upgrade'. Thats the problem though Lofts, did the club refuse to back him or was it him refusing a striker when Les wanted one? We’ll never know the true story. Did he want a new contract or did he want to go anyway? Who knows. |
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Post by alanwycombe on Mar 19, 2024 13:25:23 GMT
Warburton was just an upgrade from Holloway nothing more, imo. He had no plan B. I sort of agree with that Shania. He was stuck in his ways just like Holloway but he did at least try to play a modern game. His obsession with ‘taking care of the football’ meant we played a slow, deliberate game with no spark or flair. Solid but lacking ambition. |
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Post by West Acton on Mar 19, 2024 14:11:00 GMT
Warbs one of the best managers of my time at Rangers. Very under appreciated and things went south with his exit.
Think few fans also don’t give credit for the style of football as it was in the main front foot. How people wet themselves over Beale for handful of games over the decent stuff warbs played was just bizarre.
Would add I see lots of Warbs in Marti so I’m happy on that front.
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Post by Corbray on Mar 19, 2024 14:45:21 GMT
Have to disagree Shania. He made steady progress in difficult circumstances, while getting the wage bill down. Squad and fans were happy, he steadied the ship and oversaw the most settled period we've had in years (decades?). If he had been backed by the club, I think progress would have continued and we would never have been in the position we find ourselves today. Shame the club were so disloyal to him and didn't offer him a new contract. All of that said, if we survive this season, I do think Marti is an 'upgrade'. Thats the problem though Lofts, did the club refuse to back him or was it him refusing a striker when Les wanted one? We’ll never know the true story. Did he want a new contract or did he want to go anyway? Who knows. irc according to warbs himself, there wasn't any striker worth a damn within our budget. we were linked with a few AMs that window too like that guy from swansea. i think warbs had said we brought in hendrick because of his reputation as a very good championship player. i guess like a panic buy lol. |
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Post by alanwycombe on Mar 19, 2024 16:32:39 GMT
Warbs one of the best managers of my time at Rangers. Very under appreciated and things went south with his exit. Think few fans also don’t give credit for the style of football as it was in the main front foot. How people wet themselves over Beale for handful of games over the decent stuff warbs played was just bizarre. Would add I see lots of Warbs in Marti so I’m happy on that front. No problem wetting ourselves over an average squad being top of the league. No one knew what he’d do to us. He was a mug to leave as we were a perfect project for the stage of his career. Lucky boy to end up minted already. |
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Post by alanwycombe on Mar 19, 2024 17:01:34 GMT
A lot of the praise Beale got initially was because he was playing like Warburton but with the pace that was missing. Opinions change with time and experience - you only have to read Donkey’s thread to see that - and we may think Marti is a tosser if he lets us down one day. For now he’s better than MW and the Eel together.
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Post by West Acton on Mar 19, 2024 17:08:27 GMT
Warbs one of the best managers of my time at Rangers. Very under appreciated and things went south with his exit. Think few fans also don’t give credit for the style of football as it was in the main front foot. How people wet themselves over Beale for handful of games over the decent stuff warbs played was just bizarre. Would add I see lots of Warbs in Marti so I’m happy on that front. No problem wetting ourselves over an average squad being top of the league. No one knew what he’d do to us. He was a mug to leave as we were a perfect project for the stage of his career. Lucky boy to end up minted already. was not average squad main players were same ones who weeks before fans were saying should have made playoffs. Mugs were the fans who fell for his snake oil but were going off topic. |
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Mar 19, 2024 17:22:23 GMT
A lot of the praise Beale got initially was because he was playing like Warburton but with the pace that was missing. Opinions change with time and experience - you only have to read Donkey’s thread to see that - and we may think Marti is a tosser if he lets us down one day. For now he’s better than MW and the Eel together. Don’t think he is twice as good as Warbs. His record to date is exactly the same on points and think we have established Marti inherited a situation that was about as shit as it gets while Warbs inherited one that was almost as shit as it gets. Marti has more potential for sure and I like almost everything about him to date but let’s revisit this at the end of the season before we get too carried away |
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Post by 2Loftus on Mar 19, 2024 19:28:15 GMT
Have to disagree Shania. He made steady progress in difficult circumstances, while getting the wage bill down. Squad and fans were happy, he steadied the ship and oversaw the most settled period we've had in years (decades?). If he had been backed by the club, I think progress would have continued and we would never have been in the position we find ourselves today. Shame the club were so disloyal to him and didn't offer him a new contract. All of that said, if we survive this season, I do think Marti is an 'upgrade'. Thats the problem though Lofts, [1] did the club refuse to back him or was it him refusing a striker when Les wanted one? We’ll never know the true story. [2] Did he want a new contract or did he want to go anyway? Who knows. 1 - No idea... 2 - In interviews he gave after he'd left, Warbs made his surprise/disappointment very clear at the club telling they they wouldn't be renewing his contract. |
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Post by The General on Mar 19, 2024 19:31:47 GMT
I liked mark Warborton we was the best
we have had for many years apart from Marti
He was treated so badly by the ego Les
Appalling treatment because he would not play
The junior players as they were very average
Les has a lot to answer for tbh wasted 7 yrs
However credit where it is due he reduced the
wage bill in a fantastic way forvthe club
Warbs did a good job for us it was the clowns
above him thst fucked it all up
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Post by The General on Mar 19, 2024 19:32:54 GMT
Warbs should be acadamy manager
Hes a fantastic coach
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Post by jfrabbit on Mar 19, 2024 21:02:11 GMT
Warbs should be acadamy manager Hes a fantastic coach He's got no time for youth players. He'd be terrible mate |
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Post by The General on Mar 19, 2024 21:59:05 GMT
Got no time for them when he’s first team coach
If he was in charge of the acadamy that might be different
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Post by jfrabbit on Mar 19, 2024 22:15:59 GMT
Got no time for them when he’s first team coach If he was in charge of the acadamy that might be different Na sorry not good enough. As first team coach you should be absolutely invested in the young players, who's coming through and who looks like they could possibly make the step. Encourage them and give them some light at the end of the tunnel. He shunned them and worse still constantly grassed them up to Ramsey in emails rather than confront them. Man is a bit of a prick tbh. Very good on camera I'll give him that. |
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Post by alanwycombe on Mar 20, 2024 7:12:14 GMT
Warbs did a good job for us it was the clowns above him thst fucked it all up Like Beale said, ‘not what it had said in the brochure’ - but that was dismissed as bullshit. He was looking to walk before the Glasgow job came up. Marti is definitely benefitting from no longer having the committee in the background. |
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Post by West Acton on Mar 20, 2024 11:01:47 GMT
Warbs did a good job for us it was the clowns above him thst fucked it all up Like Beale said, ‘not what it had said in the brochure’ - but that was dismissed as bullshit. He was looking to walk before the Glasgow job came up. Marti is definitely benefitting from no longer having the committee in the background. snake oil bought by the barrel |
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Post by West Acton on Mar 20, 2024 11:04:17 GMT
Warbs should be acadamy manager Hes a fantastic coach He's got no time for youth players. He'd be terrible mate agree with this. Appeared to be a finished article type of person. But he did give Eze and Chair their legs in fairness. Perhaps there simply was not the youth to blood (blame Ramsey) Who was out there who should have got opportunity who could feel hard done by? |
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Mar 20, 2024 12:07:10 GMT
Got no time for them when he’s first team coach If he was in charge of the acadamy that might be different Na sorry not good enough. As first team coach you should be absolutely invested in the young players, who's coming through and who looks like they could possibly make the step. Encourage them and give them some light at the end of the tunnel. He shunned them and worse still constantly grassed them up to Ramsey in emails rather than confront them. Man is a bit of a prick tbh. Very good on camera I'll give him that. Interesting you say that Rabbit. Sound like you have an inside line on this. This is a genuine question, who were the young players that he should have given a chance to? |
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Post by jfrabbit on Mar 20, 2024 13:21:12 GMT
Spoke to a couple of players & I think the problem was the communication and not specific players.
For example MW was of the belief none of the youngsters were good enough so the coaches were asking him what does he want from particular players so they can work with them. What does he want them working on, what can they do differently. Was it their fitness, their movement etc but was always negative.
Also never spoke to them and as mentioned always emailing Ramsey tales about them so had no respect from the younger players.
Out of a whole football club there has to be 1-2 maybe more who have clearly got potential that you’d like the coaches to try and push to get them in contention.
Surely.
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Post by West Acton on Mar 20, 2024 13:55:29 GMT
That’s poor even if not good enough got still dangle the carrot in the hope you inspire a few to go up levels.
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Mar 20, 2024 19:16:23 GMT
Spoke to a couple of players & I think the problem was the communication and not specific players. For example MW was of the belief none of the youngsters were good enough so the coaches were asking him what does he want from particular players so they can work with them. What does he want them working on, what can they do differently. Was it their fitness, their movement etc but was always negative. Also never spoke to them and as mentioned always emailing Ramsey tales about them so had no respect from the younger players. Out of a whole football club there has to be 1-2 maybe more who have clearly got potential that you’d like the coaches to try and push to get them in contention. Surely. You could be right mate, honestly can't judge. But in his defence, none of those players (as far as I'm aware) has gone on to do anything? Kelman? Kakay? Was Dixon-Bonner around then, looks decent to me but now down the pecking order under Marti despite having a year or two more under his belt? Armstrong is raw now so must have been even more so then? I accept Warbs was quite short-termist with old warhorses like Wallace and Odobajo who were never going to have re-sell value, but can you honestly say the youth set up was producing anyone good enough? You might be right mate and appreciate there are plenty on here who follow the youth team way more closely than me. But there doesn't seem to have been a John Barnes or Paulo Wanchop pushed his way as with previous managers? |
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