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Post by West Acton on Nov 7, 2023 9:44:45 GMT
We don't need to recycle the Dykes/Armstrong arguments as we both know that although the stats firmly support the fact that Dykes is more likely to score than Armstrong it always descends into very subjective areas and entrenched views. It’s pointless. No one is saying don't get excited about a youngster breaking through the ranks, it's a QPR tradition we should be embracing. The problem is putting a ceiling on praise or criticism and both sides of that debate have been very guilty of hyperbolic nonsense at times. Excessive praise or criticism will only result in his career being affected for the worse so the best way forwards is to admit he's young, may have potential, is a bit rough around the edges but needs our encouragement. We will never come to an agreement on Dykes being anything other than a Donkey. Very noticeable that from the Fantasy Island Fanbase only Bil, Corbray and Hubble and myself have tried to openly defend Armstrong, I have a truck and trailer stacked high with large helpings of humble pie ready for his detractors. Fucking amazing that so many punters who havnt said too much on Armstrong but are so quick to praise and get stuck up Colback and poxy Fox’s ring piece. out of interest what does humble pie look like? One more goal this season or 15 goals between now and the end of next season? What are the parameter's? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2023 9:45:08 GMT
The problem is that his chief advocates proclaim him as something akin to a Clive Allen and his main detractors proclaim him as useless. The truth, which most fans see, is somewhere in the middle and he is appreciated for being a young player who may have potential. Anything more or less than that is absurd. Crap 2 weeks ago now he has potential. Fickle to put it mildly. Who likened him to Clive Allen once in a lifetime player. #cluthing at straws. Happy for you to find the post where I said he was crap, Bill. As for a comparison to Allen, I'm not sure anyone said those exact words but the opinions some express in him definitely allude to a great talent on our hands. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2023 9:46:02 GMT
We don't need to recycle the Dykes/Armstrong arguments as we both know that although the stats firmly support the fact that Dykes is more likely to score than Armstrong it always descends into very subjective areas and entrenched views. Its pointless. No one is saying don't get excited about a youngster breaking through the ranks, it's a QPR tradition we should be embracing. The problem is putting a ceiling on praise or criticism and both sides of that debate have been very guilty of hyperbolic nonsense at times. Excessive praise or criticism will only result in his career being affected for the worse so the best way forwards is to admit he's young, may have potential, is a bit rough around the edges but needs our encouragement. U turn time Change like the wind and parliament. Again, happy for you to show a comparison of my posts where my view about him has changed. |
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Post by sparks on Nov 7, 2023 9:57:57 GMT
We will never come to an agreement on Dykes being anything other than a Donkey. Very noticeable that from the Fantasy Island Fanbase only Bil, Corbray and Hubble and myself have tried to openly defend Armstrong, I have a truck and trailer stacked high with large helpings of humble pie ready for his detractors. Fucking amazing that so many punters who havnt said too much on Armstrong but are so quick to praise and get stuck up Colback and poxy Fox’s ring piece. out of interest what does humble pie look like? One more goal this season or 15 goals between now and the end of next season? What are the parameter's? In your case eating humble pie it would be a retraction that he’s not a footballer, I wouldn’t normally take any notice of comments like that but he’s 20 and made a decent impact in the vast majority of his games. I’m really struggling to understand where comments like that come from and the effect it will have on him? Then I read you and others saying bring back Donkey and give him another go, if that isn’t flip flopping I don’t know what is. As said I get we’re all frustrated but it feels like cutting your nose off to spite your face with exaggerating a players early faults. |
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Post by West Acton on Nov 7, 2023 10:07:11 GMT
Honest response sparks I genuinely don’t recall saying he’s not a footballer I have said I don’t think he’s a striker nor will he ever be an effective one and I standby that.
I do think and have been vocal saying he would be decent as a wide player think he could forge a career in that position.
If I have said he’s not a footballer then I will happily withdraw that but not sure I’ve said that in all honesty but point me in the direction of that comment and I will withdraw no trouble at all.
I’m still none the wiser as to what humble pie is as like the debate regards his striker skills your view of success will undoubtedly differ to someone else’s hence why thought would be helpful have some context to judge success against.
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Post by alanwycombe on Nov 7, 2023 10:08:44 GMT
I’ve never known a QPR kid be so devisive. He’s no Clive Allen. Not the same type of player at all so direct comparisons are unfair. He’s in the spotlight because of the hopeless striker situation Les and co. have left us in. But he is 20 and should be more accomplished than he is although it is fair to say he probably hasn’t been coached very well. Maybe we should all hold on to see what the new guys can do with him?
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Post by West Acton on Nov 7, 2023 10:10:00 GMT
For me the choice between Armstrong and Dykes up top is like being asked if you want to lose your left or your right eye. The honest answer if I would prefer neither up top Sparks.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2023 10:10:46 GMT
Strike/Bill,
What would you deem success for Armstrong over the remainder of this season and over the next 2?
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Post by sparks on Nov 7, 2023 10:13:27 GMT
We will never come to an agreement on Dykes being anything other than a Donkey. Very noticeable that from the Fantasy Island Fanbase only Bil, Corbray and Hubble and myself have tried to openly defend Armstrong, I have a truck and trailer stacked high with large helpings of humble pie ready for his detractors. Fucking amazing that so many punters who havnt said too much on Armstrong but are so quick to praise and get stuck up Colback and poxy Fox’s ring piece. "Dykes is a donkey" is a subjective opinion. There's defending Armstrong from unfair criticism - which is noble - and then there's elevating him to a position he hasn't earned, which clearly isn't noble. And 'humble pie for his detractors'? No-one wants Armstrong to fail so what that would be is 'I told you so' not humble pie, and that's never a great characteristic to be honest although I do understand the temptation to indulge in it on occasions... I've not seen what I would call excessive praise of Colback or Fox to be fair but I have seen excessive displays of faith, praise AND criticism in and of Armstrong and none of it is good for the kid. I know you don't normally like to see facts being presented when it comes to Armstrong but here they are: He is 20 years old. He has scored 1 goal in the Football League and 4 in the National League. He has scored 1 goal for every 1,390 minutes he has been on the pitch for QPR. He is powerful He has a presence on the pitch He is faster than he looks When you look at those facts it is easy to see why he generates such a wild difference of opinions but, as I said, there's no reason to entrench ourselves in the extremes of those debates. He has potential - though it isn't the greatest we've ever seen emerge at QPR - and we all wish him well. I'm sure we can all agree on that. I know you said on Saturday you were busy but u must have have watched full replay and seen how pathetic Donkey performed, even soppy London and Sinton kept criticising him. Its not about being noble it’s about being fair, u must be blind if u missed the gushing about Colback and Fox since signing. |
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Post by West Acton on Nov 7, 2023 10:14:01 GMT
I’ve never known a QPR kid be so devisive. He’s no Clive Allen. Not the same type of player at all so direct comparisons are unfair. He’s in the spotlight because of the hopeless striker situation Les and co. have left us in. But he is 20 and should be more accomplished than he is although it is fair to say he probably hasn’t been coached very well. Maybe we should all hold on to see what the new guys can do with him? you were one of his biggest fans you wanted him in the side when he was 17 based on nothing more then his physique. Having watched him struggle at the age of 19 do you still believe he was ready two years ago when you wanted him in side? Do you have confidence at the current time that he’s going to score goals if given the opportunities based on what you have seen so far? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2023 10:14:37 GMT
For me the choice between Armstrong and Dykes up top is like being asked if you want to lose your left or your right eye. The honest answer if I would prefer neither up top Sparks. If I could wave a magic wand none would be in the first team. |
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Post by Corbray on Nov 7, 2023 10:16:54 GMT
We will never come to an agreement on Dykes being anything other than a Donkey. Very noticeable that from the Fantasy Island Fanbase only Bil, Corbray and Hubble and myself have tried to openly defend Armstrong, I have a truck and trailer stacked high with large helpings of humble pie ready for his detractors. Fucking amazing that so many punters who havnt said too much on Armstrong but are so quick to praise and get stuck up Colback and poxy Fox’s ring piece. out of interest what does humble pie look like? One more goal this season or 15 goals between now and the end of next season? What are the parameter's? on one hand i'm glad you didn't take me up on my bet that armstrong would get 15 goals this year. on the other hand i do see armstrong becoming a prem player one day. the guy is incredibly raw but his physical attributes are in abundance plus he's not bad on the ball, he just needs to figure out how to play and when he does we'll reap the rewards. if he was 25 i'd say get rid but it'd be very harsh to write him off as he's still only 20. people were writing eze off as a luxury player for a few seasons when he first broke into the side but look at him now. same could be said for many of the young players we've signed and developed over the years. BOS was a pace merchant until his final season yet he's arguebly ready for the prem now |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2023 10:18:06 GMT
"Dykes is a donkey" is a subjective opinion. There's defending Armstrong from unfair criticism - which is noble - and then there's elevating him to a position he hasn't earned, which clearly isn't noble. And 'humble pie for his detractors'? No-one wants Armstrong to fail so what that would be is 'I told you so' not humble pie, and that's never a great characteristic to be honest although I do understand the temptation to indulge in it on occasions... I've not seen what I would call excessive praise of Colback or Fox to be fair but I have seen excessive displays of faith, praise AND criticism in and of Armstrong and none of it is good for the kid. I know you don't normally like to see facts being presented when it comes to Armstrong but here they are: He is 20 years old. He has scored 1 goal in the Football League and 4 in the National League. He has scored 1 goal for every 1,390 minutes he has been on the pitch for QPR. He is powerful He has a presence on the pitch He is faster than he looks When you look at those facts it is easy to see why he generates such a wild difference of opinions but, as I said, there's no reason to entrench ourselves in the extremes of those debates. He has potential - though it isn't the greatest we've ever seen emerge at QPR - and we all wish him well. I'm sure we can all agree on that. I know you said on Saturday you were busy but u must have have watched full replay and seen how pathetic Donkey performed, even soppy London and Sinton kept criticising him. Its not about being noble it’s about being fair, u must be blind if u missed the gushing about Colback and Fox since signing. Are we discussing Armstrong or Dykes? I'm not sure how many times people need to say this but it is possible to consider Dykes to be not great and Armstrong to be not ready. As for the comments about Colback and Fox signing for the club, yes they were positive for the most part but they were decent signings. Options expressed since waiver for the most part. However, again, please advise how that is remotely related to a discussion about Sinclair Armstrong. |
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Post by West Acton on Nov 7, 2023 10:24:30 GMT
Because I’m not on the forum to bet Corbs and in fairness to you it’s a ridiculous bet as he’s not going to score another 14 goals this season.
I would love at the end of the season he’s got 15 goals (if he gets that he probably keeps us up on his own) and I would not only eat humble pie I would let Sparks put a cream pie in my face.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2023 10:25:07 GMT
Because I’m not on the forum to bet Corbs and in fairness to you it’s a ridiculous bet as he’s not going to score another 14 goals this season. I would love at the end of the season he’s got 15 goals (if he gets that he probably keeps us up on his own) and I would not only eat humble pie I would let Sparks put a cream pie in my face. Make sure you agree what kind of cream in advance 😬 |
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Post by West Acton on Nov 7, 2023 10:30:15 GMT
Corbs and Sparks I’m intrigued as to what you class as success for this and next season.
You Quite rightly want me and possibly others to eat humble pie but equally would be helpful for you to set out your expectations so you can stand up your opinion.
I know you said 15 corbs but I’m not convinced you really believe that but happy to be challenged back on that.
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Post by West Acton on Nov 7, 2023 10:30:43 GMT
Because I’m not on the forum to bet Corbs and in fairness to you it’s a ridiculous bet as he’s not going to score another 14 goals this season. I would love at the end of the season he’s got 15 goals (if he gets that he probably keeps us up on his own) and I would not only eat humble pie I would let Sparks put a cream pie in my face. Make sure you agree what kind of cream in advance 😬 I did think that could be misconstrued 😂😂😂 |
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Post by Ginger Ninja on Nov 7, 2023 10:49:28 GMT
Like Dykes eh? Let me see young Has pace Has strength Has power Handfull of games in a crap team with a crap coach. Say no more. The problem is that his chief advocates proclaim him as something akin to a Clive Allen and his main detractors proclaim him as useless. The truth, which most fans see, is somewhere in the middle and he is appreciated for being a young player who may have potential. Anything more or less than that is absurd. That's what I see. Very talented young player with a lot of potential but with also a lot to learn. I really hope Cifuentes can help him hone that talent because he will be a hell of a player one day with the right coaching. |
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Post by Ginger Ninja on Nov 7, 2023 10:50:52 GMT
We don't need to recycle the Dykes/Armstrong arguments as we both know that although the stats firmly support the fact that Dykes is more likely to score than Armstrong it always descends into very subjective areas and entrenched views. Its pointless. No one is saying don't get excited about a youngster breaking through the ranks, it's a QPR tradition we should be embracing. The problem is putting a ceiling on praise or criticism and both sides of that debate have been very guilty of hyperbolic nonsense at times. Excessive praise or criticism will only result in his career being affected for the worse so the best way forwards is to admit he's young, may have potential, is a bit rough around the edges but needs our encouragement. We will never come to an agreement on Dykes being anything other than a Donkey. Very noticeable that from the Fantasy Island Fanbase only Bil, Corbray and Hubble and myself have tried to openly defend Armstrong, I have a truck and trailer stacked high with large helpings of humble pie ready for his detractors. Fucking amazing that so many punters who havnt said too much on Armstrong but are so quick to praise and get stuck up Colback and poxy Fox’s ring piece. Oi, you can add me to that list. Really like Armstrong. |
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Post by Timmy Doc on Nov 7, 2023 10:50:53 GMT
He doesn't know where the goal is, but he's still young and has time to look for it if someone helpful doesn't guide him first.
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Post by croydoncaptainjack on Nov 7, 2023 10:54:56 GMT
It will be fascinating to see how a different coach changes some of our players. Armstrong could be a good example of that. He literally frightens the shit out of some defenders and is rapid and a unit. What I have noticed about him this season is his distribution seems much better. He does not often lose the ball when part of a build up. This shows improvements can be made. I realise instinct is also needed for a striker but I still feel the potential is there. For me it is watch this space....
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Post by Corbray on Nov 7, 2023 10:55:29 GMT
Corbs and Sparks I’m intrigued as to what you class as success for this and next season. You Quite rightly want me and possibly others to eat humble pie but equally would be helpful for you to set out your expectations so you can stand up your opinion. I know you said 15 corbs but I’m not convinced you really believe that but happy to be challenged back on that. when we do well our optimism inevitably goes up, i said the 15 goals after the cardiff game when sincs had mullared them all afternoon. it'd be remarkable if he did get 15 but that'd be a goal every other game at this point. tbh i'd be happy with his progress this season if he was able to get around 8-10 goal involvements which i do think is doable under marti and still only works out to a goal or assist every 3 games. as for the humble pie stuff, i've never been one to be an "i told you so" kind of guy when it comes to football. at the end of the day we all want our players and team to do well so its hardly like any fans would be sitting there getting resentful if armstrong became a goal machine lol. there isn't really any right or wrong opinion when it comes to the club as we all see things differently. |
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Post by sparks on Nov 7, 2023 11:07:00 GMT
Corbs and Sparks I’m intrigued as to what you class as success for this and next season. You Quite rightly want me and possibly others to eat humble pie but equally would be helpful for you to set out your expectations so you can stand up your opinion. I know you said 15 corbs but I’m not convinced you really believe that but happy to be challenged back on that. I don’t think it’s fair to set Armstrong a target of x amount of goals this season with new manager and poor recent form. I personally would consider it great if the manager thought him worthy to came off the bench for 30mins most games because he’s got something in his locker worth being patient for. Two or more poor games under fucking Ainsworth don’t make a 20 yr shite imo. |
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Post by sparks on Nov 7, 2023 11:08:26 GMT
We will never come to an agreement on Dykes being anything other than a Donkey. Very noticeable that from the Fantasy Island Fanbase only Bil, Corbray and Hubble and myself have tried to openly defend Armstrong, I have a truck and trailer stacked high with large helpings of humble pie ready for his detractors. Fucking amazing that so many punters who havnt said too much on Armstrong but are so quick to praise and get stuck up Colback and poxy Fox’s ring piece. Oi, you can add me to that list. Really like Armstrong. Well u been quiet about it imo.😀 |
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Post by Ginger Ninja on Nov 7, 2023 11:24:46 GMT
Oi, you can add me to that list. Really like Armstrong. Well u been quiet about it imo.😀 I shall be louder about it in future 🤣😉 |
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Post by alanwycombe on Nov 7, 2023 11:25:28 GMT
For me the choice between Armstrong and Dykes up top is like being asked if you want to lose your left or your right eye. The honest answer if I would prefer neither up top Sparks. I would like - and could see - us playing like Man City lite. We’re not good at getting the ball in the box and getting on the end of it. Chair, Willock and, dare I say Richards and Smyth or Kelman (“best finisher at the club” - Les) playing football could be the way to go. |
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Post by alanwycombe on Nov 7, 2023 11:30:39 GMT
I’ve never known a QPR kid be so devisive. He’s no Clive Allen. Not the same type of player at all so direct comparisons are unfair. He’s in the spotlight because of the hopeless striker situation Les and co. have left us in. But he is 20 and should be more accomplished than he is although it is fair to say he probably hasn’t been coached very well. Maybe we should all hold on to see what the new guys can do with him? you were one of his biggest fans you wanted him in the side when he was 17 based on nothing more then his physique. Having watched him struggle at the age of 19 do you still believe he was ready two years ago when you wanted him in side? Do you have confidence at the current time that he’s going to score goals if given the opportunities based on what you have seen so far? No, not a fan, I just wanted to see youngsters given a chance, some game time off the bench because senior players have had no competition for ages. I’d rather the more promising kids were involved here rather than farmed out never to be seen again or just hang around here never getting a pick. |
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Post by West Acton on Nov 7, 2023 11:37:30 GMT
you were one of his biggest fans you wanted him in the side when he was 17 based on nothing more then his physique. Having watched him struggle at the age of 19 do you still believe he was ready two years ago when you wanted him in side? Do you have confidence at the current time that he’s going to score goals if given the opportunities based on what you have seen so far? No, not a fan, I just wanted to see youngsters given a chance, some game time off the bench because senior players have had no competition for ages. I’d rather the more promising kids were involved here rather than farmed out never to be seen again or just hang around here never getting a pick. agree but the youngster surely has to be ready to contribute and add value? (Not directed at muscles talking about youngsters overall) |
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Post by alanwycombe on Nov 7, 2023 11:40:15 GMT
No, not a fan, I just wanted to see youngsters given a chance, some game time off the bench because senior players have had no competition for ages. I’d rather the more promising kids were involved here rather than farmed out never to be seen again or just hang around here never getting a pick. agree but the youngster surely has to be ready to contribute and add value? (Not directed at muscles talking about youngsters overall) Sure, so let’s find out. Play them. No good? Get rid. |
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Post by 1qprdk on Nov 7, 2023 11:40:28 GMT
Oi, you can add me to that list. Really like Armstrong. Well u been quiet about it imo.😀 I quite like Armstrong too, but think he needs to improve in a lot of areas. These will only come through game time though, and when our other option almost never scores or contributes positively, we might as well use him here at QPR. If we can't offer him game time, then a league one loan would be good for his development, but we need him here atm. I just won't engage in these pointless debates, where each side builds a straw man to shoot down, by misrepresenting the other side, which then elicit angry responses ad nauseam. |
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