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Post by Tarbie on Feb 7, 2022 21:42:54 GMT
Dunno how the club wins here Al. I think we are all in agreement that we wouldn't want to club to go back to overspending like we've done in the past. If that's the case then we have to accept that we will live within our means. If the transfer market is too pricey for us in any given window then I'm afraid that's just how it is.
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Playoffs
Feb 7, 2022 21:49:24 GMT
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Post by West Acton on Feb 7, 2022 21:49:24 GMT
Dunno how the club wins here Al. I think we are all in agreement that we wouldn't want to club to go back to overspending like we've done in the past. If that's the case then we have to accept that we will live within our means. If the transfer market is too pricey for us in any given window then I'm afraid that's just how it is. those demanding more would be the first to moan about mismanagement if club got in stick again. Not just those on this forum but all those in tears across all the social media platforms More more more |
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Playoffs
Feb 7, 2022 21:56:43 GMT
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Post by Bill on Feb 7, 2022 21:56:43 GMT
So Cardiff can afford Hugill and we cant ? unless we wanted Hughill then It matters not if Cardiff got him for £1 or £1mil Bill alanwycombe were we in for Hughill if not what’s your point alanwycombe do you personally spend in life what you can’t afford it’s a yes or a no mate?? Pay peanuts but wants champagne Your putting words in peoples mouths,if thete is a big reward you might just gamble,if you think that you would rather do nothing and hope for the best thts a gamble as well. As ive said great position,great chance and nothing I am not talking big money,but these chances dont grow on trees and we as a club shiuld and could of done more,the fans like you deserve it. |
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Post by West Acton on Feb 7, 2022 22:06:53 GMT
I don’t disagree bill we are in a great position and In The ideal world I would have got a striker 1) if the one we wanted was out there and 2) if we could afford the deal
If 1 and 2 cannot be achieved then so be it we go with what we have. We’re not in a position to gamble we tried that before and it cost us 45mil fine
What I object to is people saying push the boat out when I’m fairly confident it’s not the same position they would take with their own finances so what’s the difference?? If that’s putting words in peoples mouths I’m cool with that, although don’t think I have hence asking the question.
If club came out and said can all season ticket holders put another £500 in pot to help with a striker there would be uproar. Like I said few want to pay peanuts but sane time want champagne.
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Playoffs
Feb 7, 2022 22:14:20 GMT
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Post by Bill on Feb 7, 2022 22:14:20 GMT
I don’t disagree bill we are in a great position and In The ideal world I would have got a striker 1) if the one we wanted was out there and 2) if we could afford the deal If 1 and 2 cannot be achieved then so be it we go with what we have. We’re not in a position to gamble we tried that before and it cost us 45mil fine What I object to is people saying push the boat out when I’m fairly confident it’s not the same position they would take with their own finances so what’s the difference?? If that’s putting words in peoples mouths I’m cool with that, although don’t think I have hence asking the question. If club came out and said can all season ticket holders put another £500 in pot to help with a striker there would be uproar. Like I said few want to pay peanuts but sane time want champagne. Even PNE went out and got a loan which i am sure would not break the bank and we didnt,you hsve to cover all bases and we hsvent end of. Especially ss our own yougster is nit getting a look in and Bonne is still on loan.Just does not make sense |
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Playoffs
Feb 7, 2022 22:24:24 GMT
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Post by Corbray on Feb 7, 2022 22:24:24 GMT
Did we though Corbs? Probably just the rumour mill - same as Maja, Balogun etc. etc. Since Sky started having to fill their time I don’t know what to believe. i imagine some offers are very informal, footballers are human too afterall. dieng, dickie and chair had great seasons last year and dykes ended on a purple patch too. it doesn't seem unfeasable to me that 'x' coach from a prem club rang up les and said (for example) "dickie was great for you last year, we'd love him here he could really do a job for us" and les told them informally that he's not for sale this year. i don't doubt for a second that our best players weren't on some clubs shortlists. les and warbs even said as much that we had to fend off interest for certain players in early season interviews. we could have easily sold our best players but we chose not to. thats ambition to me and its paid off, there's a reason why we're 4th in the table and a lot of it has to do with the players we kept ahold of. thats ambition enough to me tbh. |
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Playoffs
Feb 7, 2022 22:45:59 GMT
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Post by alanwycombe on Feb 7, 2022 22:45:59 GMT
So Cardiff can afford Hugill and we cant ? unless we wanted Hughill then It matters not if Cardiff got him for £1 or £1mil Bill alanwycombe were we in for Hughill if not what’s your point alanwycombe do you personally spend in life what you can’t afford it’s a yes or a no mate?? Pay peanuts but wants champagne like I said earlier, you’ve missed my point. I never said we were in for Hugill and I’m not suggesting we push the boat out and spend Joey Barton money but we’ve clearly missed out on every forward player whether it be a signing or a loan. We’re in a great position but need to score goals and my Cardiff reference was meant to show that they’ve seen the need to react (before they get sucked down). As for me spending money I haven’t got, no I don’t, but I did invest in my future when I was in a good position and that’s how I managed to retire early. The club is in a good position and a loan to the end of the season would have been a wise investment. I don’t get why we couldn’t attract anyone. |
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Post by hal9thou on Feb 7, 2022 23:49:43 GMT
The way to see all this is simply as a business proposition.
I feel we may miss out on a lucrative position because of a reactionary mindset. Others disagree, fair enough.
We'll see what happens.
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Post by acricketer on Feb 8, 2022 1:45:02 GMT
The way to see all this is simply as a business proposition. I feel we may miss out on a lucrative position because of a reactionary mindset. Others disagree, fair enough. We'll see what happens. I don't see a reactionary mindset, I think they will have looked and couldn't find a deal worth doing. They will also be thinking we've got a good chance of the playoffs and why potentially unsettle the squad with new blood at this stage. For us as we stand, sticking is a similar gamble as rolling the dice. As you say, we shall see. |
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Post by croydoncaptainjack on Feb 8, 2022 7:17:36 GMT
We did our spending in the summer.
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Post by croydoncaptainjack on Feb 8, 2022 7:20:13 GMT
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Post by West Acton on Feb 8, 2022 8:01:30 GMT
unless we wanted Hughill then It matters not if Cardiff got him for £1 or £1mil Bill alanwycombe were we in for Hughill if not what’s your point alanwycombe do you personally spend in life what you can’t afford it’s a yes or a no mate?? Pay peanuts but wants champagne Your putting words in peoples mouths,if thete is a big reward you might just gamble,if you think that you would rather do nothing and hope for the best thts a gamble as well. As ive said great position,great chance and nothing I am not talking big money,but these chances dont grow on trees and we as a club shiuld and could of done more,the fans like you deserve it. you make my point GAMBLE |
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Post by West Acton on Feb 8, 2022 8:09:47 GMT
unless we wanted Hughill then It matters not if Cardiff got him for £1 or £1mil Bill alanwycombe were we in for Hughill if not what’s your point alanwycombe do you personally spend in life what you can’t afford it’s a yes or a no mate?? Pay peanuts but wants champagne like I said earlier, you’ve missed my point. I never said we were in for Hugill and I’m not suggesting we push the boat out and spend Joey Barton money but we’ve clearly missed out on every forward player whether it be a signing or a loan. We’re in a great position but need to score goals and my Cardiff reference was meant to show that they’ve seen the need to react (before they get sucked down). As for me spending money I haven’t got, no I don’t, but I did invest in my future when I was in a good position and that’s how I managed to retire early. The club is in a good position and a loan to the end of the season would have been a wise investment. I don’t get why we couldn’t attract anyone. so if you would not spend money you don’t have why do you expect the club too?? I’m sure everyone on board would spend if they could but we have done the budget for a loan or a perm and could not get what we want with what we had. Your point on Cardiff is redundant so I’ve not missed the point at all as you made a ridiculous one. they sold a striker for 5mil and replaced him with a loan. How in gods earth is that them investing or having a go?  As my gran used to say when I asked for money and sweets I can’t give you my arse and shit out my ribs. Seems a few fans think they can You want the club to gamble when you yourself would not do the same with your hard earned. |
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Playoffs
Feb 8, 2022 8:11:37 GMT
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Post by West Acton on Feb 8, 2022 8:11:37 GMT
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Post by West Acton on Feb 8, 2022 8:19:45 GMT
posted this few days ago too It will go over peoples heads |
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Playoffs
Feb 8, 2022 9:37:52 GMT
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Post by Rangers77 on Feb 8, 2022 9:37:52 GMT
I don't want us to buy a single international mercenary.
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Playoffs
Feb 8, 2022 9:57:26 GMT
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Post by Bill on Feb 8, 2022 9:57:26 GMT
We did our spending in the summer. Your putting words in peoples mouths,if thete is a big reward you might just gamble,if you think that you would rather do nothing and hope for the best thts a gamble as well. As ive said great position,great chance and nothing I am not talking big money,but these chances dont grow on trees and we as a club shiuld and could of done more,the fans like you deserve it. you make my point GAMBLE Life is a gamble |
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Playoffs
Feb 8, 2022 9:59:02 GMT
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Post by Bill on Feb 8, 2022 9:59:02 GMT
like I said earlier, you’ve missed my point. I never said we were in for Hugill and I’m not suggesting we push the boat out and spend Joey Barton money but we’ve clearly missed out on every forward player whether it be a signing or a loan. We’re in a great position but need to score goals and my Cardiff reference was meant to show that they’ve seen the need to react (before they get sucked down). As for me spending money I haven’t got, no I don’t, but I did invest in my future when I was in a good position and that’s how I managed to retire early. The club is in a good position and a loan to the end of the season would have been a wise investment. I don’t get why we couldn’t attract anyone. so if you would not spend money you don’t have why do you expect the club too?? I’m sure everyone on board would spend if they could but we have done the budget for a loan or a perm and could not get what we want with what we had. Your point on Cardiff is redundant so I’ve not missed the point at all as you made a ridiculous one. they sold a striker for 5mil and replaced him with a loan. How in gods earth is that them investing or having a go? As my gran used to say when I asked for money and sweets I can’t give you my arse and shit out my ribs. Seems a few fans think they can You want the club to gamble when you yourself would not do the same with your hard earned. I would |
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Playoffs
Feb 8, 2022 9:59:33 GMT
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Post by Bill on Feb 8, 2022 9:59:33 GMT
I don't want us to buy a single international mercenary. Nor do i |
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Playoffs
Feb 8, 2022 10:02:00 GMT
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Post by Bill on Feb 8, 2022 10:02:00 GMT
posted this few days ago too It will go over peoples heads So another £500,000 for a loan or a signing we cant afford |
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Playoffs
Feb 8, 2022 10:03:59 GMT
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Post by Bill on Feb 8, 2022 10:03:59 GMT
We did our spending in the summer. So thats it we dont review or adapt in anyway |
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Playoffs
Feb 8, 2022 10:12:02 GMT
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Post by West Acton on Feb 8, 2022 10:12:02 GMT
so if you would not spend money you don’t have why do you expect the club too?? I’m sure everyone on board would spend if they could but we have done the budget for a loan or a perm and could not get what we want with what we had. Your point on Cardiff is redundant so I’ve not missed the point at all as you made a ridiculous one. they sold a striker for 5mil and replaced him with a loan. How in gods earth is that them investing or having a go? As my gran used to say when I asked for money and sweets I can’t give you my arse and shit out my ribs. Seems a few fans think they can You want the club to gamble when you yourself would not do the same with your hard earned. I would and that’s fine bill but let’s say they had gambled and spent the moderate amount of 1.5mil and still don’t go up. Then what? Will you be saying in summer gamble again as came so close this year or if up there in January 2023 do you say again gamble in hope it comes off Where does the gambling stop it’s a vicious circle Derby kept rolling the dice look at then now and reading |
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Post by Stanley75 on Feb 8, 2022 10:28:20 GMT
As I said earlier in the thread, words like "afford" and "gamble" are arbitrary, variable and subjective. Everyone will have their own definitions and risk-tolerance levels. (This obviously applies to the boards of football clubs too.) Therefore there really is no right or wrong. That's why it causes such debate, as we can see here.
It's also completely erroneous to think there's some binary cut off point at which you can no longer "afford" something. It would be more accurate to say there are (often quite wide-ranging) parameters within which something is "affordable" (which again, returns us to one's unique risk-tolerance levels). That's where prudence plays a crucial role, particularly in business.
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Playoffs
Feb 8, 2022 10:54:12 GMT
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Post by alanwycombe on Feb 8, 2022 10:54:12 GMT
Your putting words in peoples mouths,if thete is a big reward you might just gamble,if you think that you would rather do nothing and hope for the best thts a gamble as well. As ive said great position,great chance and nothing I am not talking big money,but these chances dont grow on trees and we as a club shiuld and could of done more,the fans like you deserve it. you make my point GAMBLE we’re gambling £160m or whatever Prem is worth these days on someone who is past his best, a donkey and someone we don’t own. As for me having to explain what I meant by Joey Barton money wasn’t he on £65k a week or something near. Would never suggest going back there. |
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Playoffs
Feb 8, 2022 11:04:18 GMT
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Post by alanwycombe on Feb 8, 2022 11:04:18 GMT
Also, if we go up it won’t matter. If we don’t go up we’ll sell players. Not much of a gamble really
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Post by hal9thou on Feb 8, 2022 13:08:51 GMT
we’re gambling £160m or whatever Prem is worth these days on someone who is past his best, a donkey and someone we don’t own. As for me having to explain what I meant by Joey Barton money wasn’t he on £65k a week or something near. Would never suggest going back there. Exactly this. What people don't get is that doing nothing is a gamble. Owning a football club is a gamble. No one is forcing these people (Tune) to own this club. |
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Post by Tarbie on Feb 8, 2022 13:32:02 GMT
End of the day Al, only those that control the purse strings at the club know how much leeway we have with regards to a.) staying the right side of FFP and b.) spending what the Board are willing to put in.
I'd hazard a guess that there is far less wiggle room than some on this thread appreciate.
I'm actually a little surprised by some of the comments when you see the plight of Derby and Reading this season (and quite likely Forest, Stoke and a few others next season).
My mindset is let all these others take daft risks. We've done it before and can't afford to do it again. Stick to our guns and we'll come good. If not this season then at some point soon enough.
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Feb 8, 2022 13:47:55 GMT
Also, if we go up it won’t matter. If we don’t go up we’ll sell players. Not much of a gamble really It will matter because we will face the FFP fine when we are next relegated - it carries over |
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Post by spongeparr on Feb 8, 2022 13:50:16 GMT
Also, if we go up it won’t matter. If we don’t go up we’ll sell players. Not much of a gamble really So we gamble, miss out, and then have to sell players and be back near the bottom again. Doesn't sound like a good idea. The way we tried to do it is absolutely the right way. We spent what we could, offered what we could for players we wanted. Rather than spending a lot of money for a plyer we don't really want (look at the clamour for Wells for example). Would I have liked to have seen us buy a Patterson or a Lawrence? Yes, of course. But Patterson refused to play due to not getting enough money and Lawrence is on £32k a year so how do we afford him without messing up a wage structure? Spending money doesn't guarantee success. Look at Sheffield Wed, Stoke, Boro, Derby. All have spent massive amounts and not gone up. Forest, Bristol City have all spent a lot and got no where. At the end of the day, only 3 teams can go up. Bournmouth on paper are better now, but they now need to gel. Spending money doesn't mean we'll come second and it doesn't mean that Bournemouth will either. But, if they don't go up and neither do we, then financially we'll be better off than they are. |
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Feb 8, 2022 13:55:46 GMT
As I said earlier in the thread, words like "afford" and "gamble" are arbitrary, variable and subjective. Everyone will have their own definitions and risk-tolerance levels. (This obviously applies to the boards of football clubs too.) Therefore there really is no right or wrong. That's why it causes such debate, as we can see here. It's also completely erroneous to think there's some binary cut off point at which you can no longer "afford" something. It would be more accurate to say there are (often quite wide-ranging) parameters within which something is "affordable" (which again, returns us to one's unique risk-tolerance levels). That's where prudence plays a crucial role, particularly in business. Respectfully I disagree. It isn't at all arbitrary. There is a fixed amount we can spent over a three year period, which is relative to our (very modest) income. That is a brute fact. it is nothing to do with gambling, it is much worse than that. It would be doing something that you know 100% will get you a fine or a points deduction later. With gambling there is a chance of winning. How could we possibly win because even if we were promoted, next time we were relegated (and even the most optimistic fan has to acknowledge that would happen at some point) the EFL fine would be waiting for us. Look at Derby, look at Reading, look at ourselves a few years ago! Its pretty clear the club tried to off-load various players in this latest transfer window (including ones they probably would have preferred to keep in Jordi, and similarly tried with Dom Ball) just to free up enough money in the budget, but we couldn't get rid of enough players (even Hammelinen is still here on his 4 year contract). Mel Morris no doubt had incredibly expensive accountants, all sorts of wheezes have been tried, but the EFL is wise to them now and are not letting anyone off lightly. Staggers me that sensible fans would want the club to go through all that fine all over again, when its taken us about five years to recover from the last one. What is it about what is happening to Derby that our fan base isn't getting? |
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