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Post by West Acton on May 20, 2023 10:06:13 GMT
I just fear bill whist a shake up is needed unless you have the right people doing it could we end up with a worse mess.
We already seen the influence a calm measured head makes on football side just need someone similar for off the pitch but where do you find them.
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Post by sparks on May 20, 2023 11:11:08 GMT
We need a new CEO first to make those difficult decisions, as has been suggested already Mark Devlin is an ideal candidate imo.
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Post by Stanley75 on May 20, 2023 11:50:59 GMT
I just fear bill whist a shake up is needed unless you have the right people doing it could we end up with a worse mess. We already seen the influence a calm measured head makes on football side just need someone similar for off the pitch but where do you find them.Where did Luton, Millwall, Coventry, Palace, Brighton, Brentford, Fulham, Bournemouth etc etc find theirs? By employing professional, savvy and competent recruitment teams. QPR's recruitment team, just like it's senior management, medical/fitness, academy, and marketing teams have been utterly amateurish and shambolic by comparison. And chucking money at the problem, like they've tried to do with Heston, is a complete waste of time and money if the people running the show are clueless.
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Post by alanwycombe on May 20, 2023 14:50:34 GMT
We were shite under Beale in stages/matches too. He never lost interest (if he did he’s highly unprofessional and should not work anywhere if that’s his mentality) Think other teams simply worked him/us out and free fall continued after him. As always, he was a decent emerging manager who was good at bullshitting and pulling wool over peoples eyes. Interesting Rangers fans referring to him as a bullshitter too already. Club needs major shake up in every department on and off the pitch. I know it’s your hobby to disagree with my posts but how can you say Beale didn’t lose interest? That’s exactly what he did after the Wolves thing and when he got wind of a chance at G Rangers. We’ll never know if he came into a shitshow that he didn’t expect to be so bad but it does look that way, and you’ve posted on the Stats thread how we were top with 30 from 16 which was a massive achievement as things have turned out. Talking of being unprofessional, I give you Warburton losing interest after January. And we were definitely worked out then.
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Post by Timmy Doc on May 20, 2023 14:53:29 GMT
Does make me laugh the way we yearn for the days of Warburton. The guy steadied the ship but was never going to take us any further - and that is no better illustrated than when he got us within touching distance but insisted on his boring ‘taking care of the football’ instead of upping our game going forward. The fact we have been rubbish since he left, apart from Michael getting us top before he lost interest, is no justification for saying we should have kept MW, it is an indictment of the clueless management structure we have not being able to deliver better. He did take us further. Everyone knows we were/are too dependent on Willock, Chair and Dieng all being in top form. Unfortunately we lost at least two, even three of those last spring.
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Post by 2Loftus on May 23, 2023 13:58:53 GMT
We were shite under Beale in stages/matches too. He never lost interest (if he did he’s highly unprofessional and should not work anywhere if that’s his mentality) Think other teams simply worked him/us out and free fall continued after him. As always, he was a decent emerging manager who was good at bullshitting and pulling wool over peoples eyes. Interesting Rangers fans referring to him as a bullshitter too already. Club needs major shake up in every department on and off the pitch. I know it’s your hobby to disagree with my posts but how can you say Beale didn’t lose interest? That’s exactly what he did after the Wolves thing and when he got wind of a chance at G Rangers. We’ll never know if he came into a shitshow that he didn’t expect to be so bad but it does look that way, and you’ve posted on the Stats thread how we were top with 30 from 16 which was a massive achievement as things have turned out. Talking of being unprofessional, I give you Warburton losing interest after January. And we were definitely worked out then. Possibly the time he was told his contract wasn’t going to be renewed…?
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Post by stainrodisalegend on May 24, 2023 8:15:00 GMT
Does make me laugh the way we yearn for the days of Warburton. The guy steadied the ship but was never going to take us any further - and that is no better illustrated than when he got us within touching distance but insisted on his boring ‘taking care of the football’ instead of upping our game going forward. The fact we have been rubbish since he left, apart from Michael getting us top before he lost interest, is no justification for saying we should have kept MW, it is an indictment of the clueless management structure we have not being able to deliver better. When you say Warbs was never going to take us further that reminds me of the Charlton chairman’s quote when he sacked Curbishley because “he has taken us as far as he can.” We all know how that worked out for Charlton. We were a very established Champ side under Warbs who over a whole calendar year showed promotion form and scored for fun. No one says it was perfect and clearly the relationship between him and the DoF/ youth set up was dysfunctional - but in retrospect was he wrong? Who were these bright stars in the B Team he wasn’t giving a chance to? Those of us unhappy that he was sacked simply ask the question “how’s it worked for you?”
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Post by alanwycombe on May 24, 2023 15:40:27 GMT
Does make me laugh the way we yearn for the days of Warburton. The guy steadied the ship but was never going to take us any further - and that is no better illustrated than when he got us within touching distance but insisted on his boring ‘taking care of the football’ instead of upping our game going forward. The fact we have been rubbish since he left, apart from Michael getting us top before he lost interest, is no justification for saying we should have kept MW, it is an indictment of the clueless management structure we have not being able to deliver better. When you say Warbs was never going to take us further that reminds me of the Charlton chairman’s quote when he sacked Curbishley because “he has taken us as far as he can.” We all know how that worked out for Charlton. We were a very established Champ side under Warbs who over a whole calendar year showed promotion form and scored for fun. No one says it was perfect and clearly the relationship between him and the DoF/ youth set up was dysfunctional - but in retrospect was he wrong? Who were these bright stars in the B Team he wasn’t giving a chance to? Those of us unhappy that he was sacked simply ask the question “how’s it worked for you?” over a whole calendar year we showed promotion form - unfortunately over the two seasons that encompasses there were two half seasons where we showed relegation form. MW fans conveniently forget all the posts about one trick pony, found out wherever he’s been, out thought tactically in a game with no plan B. The problem isn’t that we got rid of him (and who’s to say he wanted to stay with WHU sniffing?) the problem is the awful mess they made of replacing him. Nothing to do with our youngsters being poor, he wouldn’t have taken us further because he only delivered for half a season and teams worked us out easily.
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Post by stainrodisalegend on May 24, 2023 19:48:04 GMT
When you say Warbs was never going to take us further that reminds me of the Charlton chairman’s quote when he sacked Curbishley because “he has taken us as far as he can.” We all know how that worked out for Charlton. We were a very established Champ side under Warbs who over a whole calendar year showed promotion form and scored for fun. No one says it was perfect and clearly the relationship between him and the DoF/ youth set up was dysfunctional - but in retrospect was he wrong? Who were these bright stars in the B Team he wasn’t giving a chance to? Those of us unhappy that he was sacked simply ask the question “how’s it worked for you?” over a whole calendar year we showed promotion form - unfortunately over the two seasons that encompasses there were two half seasons where we showed relegation form. MW fans conveniently forget all the posts about one trick pony, found out wherever he’s been, out thought tactically in a game with no plan B. The problem isn’t that we got rid of him (and who’s to say he wanted to stay with WHU sniffing?) the problem is the awful mess they made of replacing him. Nothing to do with our youngsters being poor, he wouldn’t have taken us further because he only delivered for half a season and teams worked us out easily. Hi Alan - always respect your posts, but seriously? I already said it wasn’t perfect but would you really prefer Gareth Ainsworth leading us into next season on the back of that shit show or Warbs getting his contract renewed that fateful Jan with Les and the PE teacher going with a decent DoF being appointed? If you really think it’s going great and you think it will work out well with Gareth then fair play, you are a more optimistic fan than me these days
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Post by alanwycombe on May 24, 2023 19:52:55 GMT
over a whole calendar year we showed promotion form - unfortunately over the two seasons that encompasses there were two half seasons where we showed relegation form. MW fans conveniently forget all the posts about one trick pony, found out wherever he’s been, out thought tactically in a game with no plan B. The problem isn’t that we got rid of him (and who’s to say he wanted to stay with WHU sniffing?) the problem is the awful mess they made of replacing him. Nothing to do with our youngsters being poor, he wouldn’t have taken us further because he only delivered for half a season and teams worked us out easily. Hi Alan - always respect your posts, but seriously? I already said it wasn’t perfect but would you really prefer Gareth Ainsworth leading us into next season on the back of that shit show or Warbs getting his contract renewed that fateful Jan with Les and the PE teacher going with a decent DoF being appointed? If you really think it’s going great and you think it will work out well with Gareth then fair play, you are a more optimistic fan than me these days I don’t think it’s going well, I think it’s a dreadful appointment. That’s my point. We needed to do better than Warburton. I know we hate him, rightly, but Beale played the possession game but quicker - that was taking Warburton’s game forward.
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Post by Shania on May 24, 2023 20:01:51 GMT
GA was obviously a gamble. God help the Board and us all if they don't give him the players he wants. Aligning with the budget of course...
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Post by stainrodisalegend on May 24, 2023 20:10:57 GMT
Hi Alan - always respect your posts, but seriously? I already said it wasn’t perfect but would you really prefer Gareth Ainsworth leading us into next season on the back of that shit show or Warbs getting his contract renewed that fateful Jan with Les and the PE teacher going with a decent DoF being appointed? If you really think it’s going great and you think it will work out well with Gareth then fair play, you are a more optimistic fan than me these days I don’t think it’s going well, I think it’s a dreadful appointment. That’s my point. We needed to do better than Warburton. I know we hate him, rightly, but Beale played the possession game but quicker - that was taking Warburton’s game forward. Agree with you and there was a sweet spot under Beale - but only for about six games - when he did seem to take Warbsball to a new level. Have never claimed Warbs was Pep. We all got frustrated with the passing it along the back line and then to the midfielder always facing his own goal who just knocked it back to the centre half. Beale made us play quicker, sometimes we lost it as a result but we also got it forward faster with purpose. All that conceded. BUT a) at our best under Warbs I think we looked better than at our best under Warty, as we were so free flowing and always looked like scoring, and b) yes I concede that warty was v gd and if he stayed he probably would longer term have made us better - but he didn’t stay. He was a cunt: and being a cunt was always in his DNA. Obvs we don’t know what goes on behind the scenes but I think if the owners had taken responsibility that Jan, sacked Les, and said to Warbs “you don’t have to play youngsters, we can abolish the youth team if it is not productive - but equally you can’t sign any more 32-year-old crocks and instead we are going to get you a bloody good data analyst and you have to pick up some rough diamonds from Prem academies etc - that is your brief now do it” I personally believe he wd have stuck with us and we would now look like a highly attractive club on the up: now we just look like Stevenage
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Post by alanwycombe on May 24, 2023 20:11:16 GMT
GA was obviously a gamble. God help the Board and us all if they don't give him the players he wants. Aligning with the budget of course... Ainsworth’s ‘style’ kept us up but it’s not the answer for a whole season in the Championship
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Post by stainrodisalegend on May 24, 2023 20:22:47 GMT
Suppose where I take issue with you Alan is we are not Man City. Yes if there was a more experienced, more loyal Mick Beale out there who wanted to manage qpr then yes oc that would be a v great appointment. But we are qpr in 2023 - who was that manager?
Warbs at our level was a good manager. Am not sure who your candidate is? Maybe if we had emulated Coventry and stuck with our manager we would now regard Warbs more highly? No one was hailing Mark Robbins a genius when a Warbs teams played Coventry off the park and beat them 3-0 (and narrowly beat them away)
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Post by Shania on May 24, 2023 20:34:22 GMT
GA was obviously a gamble. God help the Board and us all if they don't give him the players he wants. Aligning with the budget of course... Ainsworth’s ‘style’ kept us up but it’s not the answer for a whole season in the ChampionshipLets hope you're wrong ...
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Post by Stanley75 on May 24, 2023 20:52:27 GMT
Agree with you and there was a sweet spot under Beale - but only for about six games - when he did seem to take Warbsball to a new level. Have never claimed Warbs was Pep. We all got frustrated with the passing it along the back line and then to the midfielder always facing his own goal who just knocked it back to the centre half. Beale made us play quicker, sometimes we lost it as a result but we also got it forward faster with purpose. All that conceded. BUT a) at our best under Warbs I think we looked better than at our best under Warty, as we were so free flowing and always looked like scoring, and b) yes I concede that warty was v gd and if he stayed he probably would longer term have made us better - but he didn’t stay. He was a cunt: and being a cunt was always in his DNA. Obvs we don’t know what goes on behind the scenes but I think if the owners had taken responsibility that Jan, sacked Les, and said to Warbs “you don’t have to play youngsters, we can abolish the youth team if it is not productive - but equally you can’t sign any more 32-year-old crocks and instead we are going to get you a bloody good data analyst and you have to pick up some rough diamonds from Prem academies etc - that is your brief now do it” I personally believe he wd have stuck with us and we would now look like a highly attractive club on the up: now we just look like Stevenage To be fair Stains, that "if" is SO hypothetical it goes way beyond the realms of reality. The scenario you paint would simply never have happened with these present owners, therefore too unrealistic to even warrant hypothesising over.
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Post by West Acton on May 24, 2023 21:17:34 GMT
Hi Alan - always respect your posts, but seriously? I already said it wasn’t perfect but would you really prefer Gareth Ainsworth leading us into next season on the back of that shit show or Warbs getting his contract renewed that fateful Jan with Les and the PE teacher going with a decent DoF being appointed? If you really think it’s going great and you think it will work out well with Gareth then fair play, you are a more optimistic fan than me these days but Beale played the possession game but quicker At the risk of upsetting you Quicker football? not sure I can have that. As Stains says there was purple patch of 6ish games when it was great to watch, even I can acknowledge that, Watford away is example but there are more examples of more of the same then what you’re trying to suggest. Quick footie - Charlton, Sunderland, Rotherham, Blackpool, Luton, Coventry, Birmingham, West Brom and Huddersfield all games where we had the ball moved at a snails pace and it was a chore to watch. I’m baffled why you think with that list above it was better football in terms of entertainment and pace/quickness. Watford through to Sheff Utd was good and enjoyable either side of that it was the pits.
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Post by alanwycombe on May 24, 2023 21:20:08 GMT
Top of the league 30 from 16. 60 from 32 would have been an interesting position.
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Post by West Acton on May 24, 2023 21:23:52 GMT
What’s that got do with the point on quickness and pace of play. That’s what your whole defence of Beale is based on when it’s flawed.
Same as saying if my gran had wheels she would be a bike it means nothing.
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Post by alanwycombe on May 24, 2023 21:24:41 GMT
Suppose where I take issue with you Alan is we are not Man City. Yes if there was a more experienced, more loyal Mick Beale out there who wanted to manage qpr then yes oc that would be a v great appointment. But we are qpr in 2023 - who was that manager? Warbs at our level was a good manager. Am not sure who your candidate is? Maybe if we had emulated Coventry and stuck with our manager we would now regard Warbs more highly? No one was hailing Mark Robbins a genius when a Warbs teams played Coventry off the park and beat them 3-0 (and narrowly beat them away) I can’t answer your question ‘who would be my candidate’, I’m not paid £600k or whatever it is to keep my finger on the pulse. I’d never heard of De Zerbi and he’s a revelation so there will be people out there not on fans’ radar but known in the trade. If you know what you’re doing of course😁
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Post by alanwycombe on May 24, 2023 21:27:25 GMT
What’s that got do with the point on quickness and pace of play. That’s what your whole defence of Beale is based on when it’s flawed. Same as saying if my gran had wheels she would be a bike it means nothing. im sick of pointing out I’m not defending Beale.
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Post by West Acton on May 24, 2023 21:28:23 GMT
What’s that got do with the point on quickness and pace of play. That’s what your whole defence of Beale is based on when it’s flawed. Same as saying if my gran had wheels she would be a bike it means nothing. im sick of pointing out I’m not defending Beale. you might want read your messages back then Al as they sure read like you are.
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Post by hal9thou on May 24, 2023 22:01:55 GMT
What’s that got do with the point on quickness and pace of play. That’s what your whole defence of Beale is based on when it’s flawed. Same as saying if my gran had wheels she would be a bike it means nothing. im sick of pointing out I’m not defending Beale. I don't know the T&Cs on offer when he was appointed, or who disclosed what. I don't know if something that hadn't been disclosed was subsequently discovered. I've always suspected that there's more to what actually happened than meets the eye. There were good periods under Warbs but some really awful ones: the play out at all costs policy for example became really destructive, because we got found out big time. And I can't prove this, but it seemed to me that our transitions just became too slow, too laboured. The same thing happened at Brentford. But tbf to Warbs, an like I've said before, it's hard to be too critical of people who people who didn't appoint themselves and then find that they're working in a dysfuctional environment.
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Post by Stanley75 on May 24, 2023 22:03:13 GMT
im sick of pointing out I’m not defending Beale. you might want read your messages back then Al as they sure read like you are. Let's take Beale's character out of the equation and just examine the football we played under him at the time. I think most objectively-minded people would say it was mixed on balance. Yes he got us top of the league but there were some poor performances under him too. The fact is he just wasn't with us long enough to really judge comprehensively. Unlike Warbs who was with us long enough to build a clearer picture. So really it's a pointless comparison IMO.
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Post by West Acton on May 24, 2023 22:06:07 GMT
you might want read your messages back then Al as they sure read like you are. Let's take Beale's character out of the equation and just examine the football we played under him at the time. I think most objectively-minded people would say it was mixed on balance. Yes he got us top of the table but there were some poor performances under him too. The fact is he just wasn't with us long enough to really judge comprehensively. Unlike Warbs who was with us long enough to build a clearer picture. So really it's a pointless comparison IMO. could not agree with this post more as it’s fair and balanced.
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Post by alanwycombe on May 24, 2023 23:00:17 GMT
im sick of pointing out I’m not defending Beale. I don't know the T&Cs on offer when he was appointed, or who disclosed what. I don't know if something that hadn't been disclosed was subsequently discovered. I've always suspected that there's more to what actually happened than meets the eye. There were good periods under Warbs but some really awful ones: the play out at all costs policy for example became really destructive, because we got found out big time. And I can't prove this, but it seemed to me that our transitions just became too slow, too laboured. The same thing happened at Brentford. But tbf to Warbs, an like I've said before, it's hard to be too critical of people who people who didn't appoint themselves and then find that they're working in a dysfuctional environment. Your last para applies equally to Beale and Critchley. One decided he wasn’t having it and the other got shat on.
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Post by gtleighsr3 on May 25, 2023 7:57:20 GMT
GA was obviously a gamble. God help the Board and us all if they don't give him the players he wants. Aligning with the budget of course... God help us if they do
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Post by stainrodisalegend on May 25, 2023 9:13:25 GMT
Hi Alan - always respect your posts, but seriously? I already said it wasn’t perfect but would you really prefer Gareth Ainsworth leading us into next season on the back of that shit show or Warbs getting his contract renewed that fateful Jan with Les and the PE teacher going with a decent DoF being appointed? If you really think it’s going great and you think it will work out well with Gareth then fair play, you are a more optimistic fan than me these days I don’t think it’s going well, I think it’s a dreadful appointment. That’s my point. We needed to do better than Warburton. I know we hate him, rightly, but Beale played the possession game but quicker - that was taking Warburton’s game forward. Given that our board and director of football are useless and they are the ones making the appointment it is hardly surprising it has gone tits up since Warbs left. He had his faults but as others have said, he was not the problem. We got rid of the one genuinely professional, experienced person at the club who seemed to know what he was doing and left us with the clowns. The results are there for all to see: criticise Warbs record - fine - but can you honestly say that the season without him has been an improvement overall on the preceding seasons with him? And as for this season coming, I’m bloody terrified, and i expect as a long standing fan, so are you. Simple question: if you could have MW as manager now or GA, who would you choose (the next Pep that you expect Les to find is not in the list of options)?
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Post by alanwycombe on May 25, 2023 9:43:53 GMT
I don’t think it’s going well, I think it’s a dreadful appointment. That’s my point. We needed to do better than Warburton. I know we hate him, rightly, but Beale played the possession game but quicker - that was taking Warburton’s game forward. Given that our board and director of football are useless and they are the ones making the appointment it is hardly surprising it has gone tits up since Warbs left. He had his faults but as others have said, he was not the problem. We got rid of the one genuinely professional, experienced person at the club who seemed to know what he was doing and left us with the clowns. The results are there for all to see: criticise Warbs record - fine - but can you honestly say that the season without him has been an improvement overall on the preceding seasons with him? And as for this season coming, I’m bloody terrified, and i expect as a long standing fan, so are you. Simple question: if you could have MW as manager now or GA, who would you choose (the next Pep that you expect Les to find is not in the list of options)? Very unfair question - 10/12 games into next season is the time to answer that. If it’s Warburton pre Austin and Stef or Warburton post changing a winning team just because Chair was back then it could well be Ainsworth. I saw his Wycombe team a few times and they could be a good watch BUT they weren’t playing Watford, Norwich, Leicester or Leeds etc. Hindsight is never a game to play because it’s pointless but I would be very interested to know why Beale wanted out BEFORE the Gers job came up.
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Post by West Acton on May 25, 2023 9:48:03 GMT
I don’t think it’s going well, I think it’s a dreadful appointment. That’s my point. We needed to do better than Warburton. I know we hate him, rightly, but Beale played the possession game but quicker - that was taking Warburton’s game forward. Given that our board and director of football are useless and they are the ones making the appointment it is hardly surprising it has gone tits up since Warbs left. He had his faults but as others have said, he was not the problem. We got rid of the one genuinely professional, experienced person at the club who seemed to know what he was doing and left us with the clowns. The results are there for all to see: criticise Warbs record - fine - but can you honestly say that the season without him has been an improvement overall on the preceding seasons with him? And as for this season coming, I’m bloody terrified, and i expect as a long standing fan, so are you. Simple question: if you could have MW as manager now or GA, who would you choose (the next Pep that you expect Les to find is not in the list of options)? anyone who would respond Ainsworth over Warburton is lying imo
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