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Post by James1979 on Mar 1, 2023 10:04:57 GMT
Agree with the comments about the academy being unsustainable but where would that leave Heston (which still has another year of construction works to go?) Just sell it. Always a buyer. Cut losses and move on. |
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Post by hal9thou on Mar 1, 2023 10:33:26 GMT
I don't know what the existing budget is, I only know that sticking to it has achieved a loss making stasis. At best, since we now appear to be in freefall. I've never advocated a lottery winner in Harrods approach to doing business, we've tried that, but there is a middle ground between doing that and doing nothing. If we don't find that ground soon, we'll loose even more money. You are changing your argument. Your previous post said your problem was how this vast amount of money was spent. Now you have gone back to saying they need to spend more, albeit modestly. Hoos has already confirmed we can't spend more due to FFP. And these accounts show we are already spending an absolute fortune. Bailing the club out by £2m a month is hardly "doing nothing". We are fucked. But spending even more money would just make us even more fucked with a monumental FFP fine. And that's even if the owners did want to throw even more money at it. Just to spell it out: Spending wisely, yes, even though we've been incapable of it to date. I would consider breaching FFP and risking a proportionate sanction if, for example, we 9 points clear going into the window and our only striker was sectioned. Business is a balance of risk and reward. For us, development is another naive fantasy. That model has failed us. My business model would to be to asset strip the club, literally, and keep a core first team squad, putting everything into that. 2m a month is clearly nothing to our current owners, because they've done nothing to remedy that scenario. |
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Post by Corbray on Mar 1, 2023 10:45:54 GMT
You are changing your argument. Your previous post said your problem was how this vast amount of money was spent. Now you have gone back to saying they need to spend more, albeit modestly. Hoos has already confirmed we can't spend more due to FFP. And these accounts show we are already spending an absolute fortune. Bailing the club out by £2m a month is hardly "doing nothing". We are fucked. But spending even more money would just make us even more fucked with a monumental FFP fine. And that's even if the owners did want to throw even more money at it. Just to spell it out: Spending wisely, yes, even though we've been incapable of it to date. I would consider breaching FFP and risking a proportionate sanction if, for example, we 9 points clear going into the window and our only striker was sectioned. Business is a balance of risk and reward. For us, development is another naive fantasy. That model has failed us. My business model would to be to asset strip the club, literally, and keep a core first team squad, putting everything into that. 2m a month is clearly nothing to our current owners, because they've done nothing to remedy that scenario. thats something that should have been done in the summer. we've been told time and time again that we'd have to sell an important player every year, i'm okay with that as long as there's a clear and forward thinking plan around it. i get that we gambled this year by keeping our squad together but selling chair or willock wouldn't have been too damaging. the value of our best players has nosedived this season, especially willock's given his injuries and the fact that he only has a year left on his deal (assuming he doesn't sign a new one). |
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Post by shepherdsmush on Mar 1, 2023 12:09:42 GMT
136 players / coaches and we still don't have a decent defensive CM or a regular goalscorer...
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Post by spongeparr on Mar 1, 2023 13:30:46 GMT
Hoos job should be to bring in revenue. That's doing stuff locally, promotions, improvements to the ground etc. He doesn't want to do any of that, and that stops with him.
DoF is meant to find players and have a strategy. Our strategy is youth but we don't play them.
We then panic and over spend on a 30 plus year old striker every Jan. Rinse repeat. That's a failure on both of them.
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Post by 2Loftus on Mar 1, 2023 13:37:08 GMT
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Post by 2Loftus on Mar 1, 2023 13:49:31 GMT
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Post by The General on Mar 1, 2023 14:22:22 GMT
God we are all over the news regarding
Our debts they love to kick the Rangers
When they are down dont they
All clubs have debts at the moment
Why they highlighting ours so much
Bournmouth owe 300 million and are
Going to be relegated shortly
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Mar 1, 2023 14:25:18 GMT
Exactly Loftus. Yet some fans would have us gamble even more. But statistically the odds are always against a club like us going up (particularly with one or two of the relegated clubs hot favourites to go up). So breaking FFP would be a bet with probably less than a 10% chance of coming off, given that in a typical season there are normally a dozen clubs in with a shout. Madness! And then, even if by some miracle somehow we got promoted to the promised land, when relegation later happened - and for a club of our size in the Premier League it would happen at some point, I think even the most optimistic fan would accept that - we would just be hit with the fine then and quite probably for a second major offence points deductions and relegation to the third tier, endangering the club's very survival. The owners have been guilty of major mismanagement but as of now there is no easy fix. The only solution now is to cut costs right back and then slowly try to rebuild (given that making people redundant actually costs you more in the short term than keeping them on). |
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Post by sparks on Mar 1, 2023 14:40:12 GMT
Exactly Loftus. Yet some fans would have us gamble even more. But statistically the odds are always against a club like us going up (particularly with one or two of the relegated clubs hot favourites to go up). So breaking FFP would be a bet with probably less than a 10% chance of coming off, given that in a typical season there are normally a dozen clubs in with a shout. Madness! And then, even if by some miracle somehow we got promoted to the promised land, when relegation later happened - and for a club of our size in the Premier League it would happen at some point, I think even the most optimistic fan would accept that - we would just be hit with the fine then and quite probably for a second major offence points deductions and relegation to the third tier, endangering the club's very survival. The owners have been guilty of major mismanagement but as of now there is no easy fix. The only solution now is to cut costs right back and then slowly try to rebuild (given that making people redundant actually costs you more in the short term than keeping them on). Was it just a gamble last season when we still posted losses of £4.5m in season 19/20 which were offset by £17m Eze transfe =£21.5m Season 21/22 £24m which includes training ground costs, maybe I’m overlooking something but they look similar losses to me? |
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Post by Tarbie on Mar 1, 2023 15:13:43 GMT
I think the appointment of Ainsworth is telling. The remit was clearly bring in a Manager that isn't going to grumble when given minimal resources.
I expect a sell off of assets this summer and an influx of free transfers on lower salaries.
I also think a restructure off the field and dare I say it, even at Director level is entirely possible.
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Post by 1qprdk on Mar 1, 2023 15:17:23 GMT
I think the appointment of Ainsworth is telling. The remit was clearly bring in a Manager that isn't going to grumble when given minimal resources. I expect a sell off of assets this summer and an influx of free transfers on lower salaries. I also think a restructure off the field and dare I say it, even at Director level is entirely possible. Let's bloody hope so. |
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Post by 1qprdk on Mar 1, 2023 15:18:14 GMT
Exactly Loftus. Yet some fans would have us gamble even more. But statistically the odds are always against a club like us going up (particularly with one or two of the relegated clubs hot favourites to go up). So breaking FFP would be a bet with probably less than a 10% chance of coming off, given that in a typical season there are normally a dozen clubs in with a shout. Madness! And then, even if by some miracle somehow we got promoted to the promised land, when relegation later happened - and for a club of our size in the Premier League it would happen at some point, I think even the most optimistic fan would accept that - we would just be hit with the fine then and quite probably for a second major offence points deductions and relegation to the third tier, endangering the club's very survival. The owners have been guilty of major mismanagement but as of now there is no easy fix. The only solution now is to cut costs right back and then slowly try to rebuild (given that making people redundant actually costs you more in the short term than keeping them on). Was it just a gamble last season when we still posted losses of £4.5m in season 19/20 which were offset by £17m Eze transfe =£21.5m Season 21/22 £24m which includes training ground costs, maybe I’m overlooking something but they look similar losses to me? Yeah, not much of a gamble. Keeping 4 players and adding Hendricks in jan. Fucking lazy journos |
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Post by spongeparr on Mar 1, 2023 15:36:17 GMT
Exactly Loftus. Yet some fans would have us gamble even more. But statistically the odds are always against a club like us going up (particularly with one or two of the relegated clubs hot favourites to go up). So breaking FFP would be a bet with probably less than a 10% chance of coming off, given that in a typical season there are normally a dozen clubs in with a shout. Madness! And then, even if by some miracle somehow we got promoted to the promised land, when relegation later happened - and for a club of our size in the Premier League it would happen at some point, I think even the most optimistic fan would accept that - we would just be hit with the fine then and quite probably for a second major offence points deductions and relegation to the third tier, endangering the club's very survival. The owners have been guilty of major mismanagement but as of now there is no easy fix. The only solution now is to cut costs right back and then slowly try to rebuild (given that making people redundant actually costs you more in the short term than keeping them on). Cut costs etc I'd exactly what we have been told for 8 years. Youth step up and sell. But that hasn't happened. That and the stadium, who is at fault. Yes, great owners are putting in money but they aren't following through on their words. New stadium and sustainable. We are neither. |
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Post by Tarbie on Mar 1, 2023 15:52:10 GMT
There is another fix to this which many fans wouldn't entertain. I'll say it anyway though. Sell our real estate. Move to a welcoming borough further West. Not ideal, but with the redevelopments going on at the old BBC land, a developer would likely pay a pretty penny for Loftus Road. Would bring in a decent cash injection and allow us to do some favourable accounting given FFP allows a certain amount of investment when it comes to physical infrastructure etc.
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Post by 2Loftus on Mar 1, 2023 16:04:21 GMT
There is another fix to this which many fans wouldn't entertain. I'll say it anyway though. Sell our real estate. Move to a welcoming borough further West. Not ideal, but with the redevelopments going on at the old BBC land, a developer would likely pay a pretty penny for Loftus Road. Would bring in a decent cash injection and allow us to do some favourable accounting given FFP allows a certain amount of investment when it comes to physical infrastructure etc. Could come to that. Owners wanting to recoup some of their losses, take the money and run. They can't stick it out forever, what on earth is in it for them? I guess their 'dream' was involvement in the HS2 rail link and development, but that seems to have evaporated Southall Park Rangers anyone at home MK Dons? |
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Post by The General on Mar 1, 2023 16:18:54 GMT
Due to the club being run so badly for
Nearly 12 years now we are in shit streak
Its the owners fault not the supporters
The 29 million is split into 4 pots
So each owner s debt is smaller
Amits 10% gives him a debt of 3 million
Not that much really
American the same
Its Ganggoolie that carry the most 14 mill
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Post by The General on Mar 1, 2023 16:21:32 GMT
As the club now owes Ganggoolie so much money
He will not leave as he knows that unless someone
Buys the club he will not recoup any of the 60 mill
He is owed do hes going nowhere fast unless he get a buyer
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Post by gtleighsr3 on Mar 1, 2023 16:48:12 GMT
As the club now owes Ganggoolie so much money He will not leave as he knows that unless someone Buys the club he will not recoup any of the 60 mill He is owed do hes going nowhere fast unless he get a buyer Or snuffs it |
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Post by Hitman34 on Mar 1, 2023 17:46:22 GMT
I think the appointment of Ainsworth is telling. The remit was clearly bring in a Manager that isn't going to grumble when given minimal resources. Bang on the money, Tarbie. Ainsworth was not an appointment with the aim of challenging for top 6. I think it just going to be a case of spending the bare minimum for the next few years and just try and stay in the division. Also, with the appointment of Ainsworth, clearly the owners hope that it will buy them time with the fans. |
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Post by gtleighsr3 on Mar 1, 2023 19:56:58 GMT
We gone from say col u to now jaywick fc.
Fuck me wrexham are going to overtake us in a few years and they got a cant in a spandex suit and mask in charge, and some other bloke never heard off
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Post by hal9thou on Mar 1, 2023 20:11:40 GMT
Exactly Loftus. Yet some fans would have us gamble even more. But statistically the odds are always against a club like us going up (particularly with one or two of the relegated clubs hot favourites to go up). So breaking FFP would be a bet with probably less than a 10% chance of coming off, given that in a typical season there are normally a dozen clubs in with a shout. Madness! And then, even if by some miracle somehow we got promoted to the promised land, when relegation later happened - and for a club of our size in the Premier League it would happen at some point, I think even the most optimistic fan would accept that - we would just be hit with the fine then and quite probably for a second major offence points deductions and relegation to the third tier, endangering the club's very survival. The owners have been guilty of major mismanagement but as of now there is no easy fix. The only solution now is to cut costs right back and then slowly try to rebuild (given that making people redundant actually costs you more in the short term than keeping them on). Was it just a gamble last season when we still posted losses of £4.5m in season 19/20 which were offset by £17m Eze transfe =£21.5m Season 21/22 £24m which includes training ground costs, maybe I’m overlooking something but they look similar losses to me? Unfortunately no one has provided an answer to a key question: how is it that the owners haven't attempted to cut costs off the park? The off field costs of running this club are disproportionately high vs other EFL outfits (bar the parachute reg). Could it be because between them the owners can actually afford to sustain the losses? If not, how else to explain the situation? Also, if we did go up and then get relegated, the poverty of everyone else in the division would give us a very good chance of going up again, which is why some people want to see chute payments scrapped. Yes, FFP is a massive potential problem if you drive a coach and horses through it, but these days the sanction has to be proportionate for minor infringements (I posted up links to the EFL regs). If we cut the dead wood at the club completely we'd save enough money after a couple of years to buy someone without contravening FFP at all. Should have done it years ago, the writing has been on the wall for a long long time. |
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Post by sparks on Mar 1, 2023 20:41:49 GMT
It makes me wonder how accurately reported these figures actually are, I would also question how closely are they looked at by EFL as long rules aren’t being broken.
Good accountants can paint a certain type of picture to suit a business owners requirements.
I personally can’t get away from how H&F have labelled our owners intentions regarding LC Stadium.
Only a fool would spunk £2m a month and not make an effort to reduce it.
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Post by Corbray on Mar 1, 2023 22:09:47 GMT
getting rid of les seems so obvious. i can see him going in the summer and someone else brought in to replace him. the underlining question should ALWAYS be "if brentford can do it, why can't we?"
i get that brentford have a great owner in matthew benham, he's a stats man and very clever but our owners are all businessmen who have managed lucrative empires of their own by getting in the right people to help them. they're not braindead idiots, they have resources and contacts at their disposal so use them and get someone proper in.
the club needs a restructure as we're constantly taking backsteps year on year, this current model just isn't working.
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Post by jfrabbit on Mar 2, 2023 6:47:43 GMT
There is another fix to this which many fans wouldn't entertain. I'll say it anyway though. Sell our real estate. Move to a welcoming borough further West. Not ideal, but with the redevelopments going on at the old BBC land, a developer would likely pay a pretty penny for Loftus Road. Would bring in a decent cash injection and allow us to do some favourable accounting given FFP allows a certain amount of investment when it comes to physical infrastructure etc. Can see this playing out and us ending up over by Ruislip or down that way. I'd hate that. As you said, White City is now being branded as White City Village. The next unnaforadble London dump turned yuppy. That's probably why they're hanging in there. |
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Post by alanwycombe on Mar 2, 2023 7:40:29 GMT
There is another fix to this which many fans wouldn't entertain. I'll say it anyway though. Sell our real estate. Move to a welcoming borough further West. Not ideal, but with the redevelopments going on at the old BBC land, a developer would likely pay a pretty penny for Loftus Road. Would bring in a decent cash injection and allow us to do some favourable accounting given FFP allows a certain amount of investment when it comes to physical infrastructure etc. Can see this playing out and us ending up over by Ruislip or down that way. I'd hate that. As you said, White City is now being branded as White City Village. The next unnaforadble London dump turned yuppy. That's probably why they're hanging in there. Unless they are keeping some big secret Jimmy, which I doubt, I can’t see where we could go. The thing to have done was to get in on the HS2 project as that has created a lot of sites alongside existing transport connections. I understand from someone on the project that all future land use was done and dusted before they started so we’ll have missed that boat. |
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Post by The General on Mar 2, 2023 8:52:19 GMT
There is another fix to this which many fans wouldn't entertain. I'll say it anyway though. Sell our real estate. Move to a welcoming borough further West. Not ideal, but with the redevelopments going on at the old BBC land, a developer would likely pay a pretty penny for Loftus Road. Would bring in a decent cash injection and allow us to do some favourable accounting given FFP allows a certain amount of investment when it comes to physical infrastructure etc. Think we have to look at all avenues tarbs Share Readings Ground ? Share Fulhams Ground ? Share Watfords Ground ? Ac milan and Inter share a ground Two of the biggest clubs in the world Pay all the debts off by selling our shit ground Start again |
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Post by alanwycombe on Mar 2, 2023 9:04:47 GMT
There is another fix to this which many fans wouldn't entertain. I'll say it anyway though. Sell our real estate. Move to a welcoming borough further West. Not ideal, but with the redevelopments going on at the old BBC land, a developer would likely pay a pretty penny for Loftus Road. Would bring in a decent cash injection and allow us to do some favourable accounting given FFP allows a certain amount of investment when it comes to physical infrastructure etc. Think we have to look at all avenues tarbs Share Readings Ground ? Share Fulhams Ground ? Share Watfords Ground ? Ac milan and Inter share a ground Two of the biggest clubs in the world Pay all the debts off by selling our shit ground Start again The continentals who share grounds share a neutral venue. I could stomach that. It would have been a good idea to build something with Brentford. No one will travel to Reading and unlikely to even go to Watford. If we groundshare with the Fools we’ll be like Coventry, Wimbledon, Brighton with years of uncertainty while the next generation of fans will go elsewhere. Our owners are keeping us afloat and killing us off at the same time. Quite an achievement. |
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Post by The General on Mar 2, 2023 9:13:43 GMT
Agree so what is the answer
In debt for our whole existance now
Need Mittal to buy club pay debt off
And put in plans for a new ground
We are just a floater atm in a big sea
Going nowhere fast in vast debt
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Post by alanwycombe on Mar 2, 2023 9:16:17 GMT
I think stadiums abroad are often owned by the local authorities - can you imagine our fucking councils having a say in staging football matches? 😂 It would be an absolute nightmare with lots of small minded nobodies poking their misinformed noses in.
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