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Post by The General on May 31, 2023 14:42:18 GMT
Thats a massive amount of shares converted
Surely someone have paid of the loans and now own the shares now
Hope its Mittal something is def happening
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Post by The General on May 31, 2023 14:43:15 GMT
Someone has paid off the debt and now owns 13 million pounds worth of Qpr shares but who ?
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Post by The General on May 31, 2023 14:45:15 GMT
They have converted the debt into shares and then someone has bought them
So they dont need to pay the debt themselves or use theor own money to do so
Someone now owns more of the club either Mittal or American
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Post by James1979 on May 31, 2023 14:56:22 GMT
Converting loans into equity doesn’t impact the 24.6m. The owner of the loans knows they won’t get repaid so coverts. |
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Post by James1979 on May 31, 2023 14:57:59 GMT
They have converted the debt into shares and then someone has bought them So they dont need to pay the debt themselves or use theor own money to do so Someone now owns more of the club either Mittal or American What makes you think someone (other than existing shareholder and owner of the shareholder debt) has bought the shares. It seems to say debt conversion only no? |
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Post by The General on May 31, 2023 14:59:19 GMT
yes but this happended exactly the same month last year when ammit bought them
Same again this year , hes buying a larger stake in the club by paying off the debt every year
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Post by The General on May 31, 2023 15:01:16 GMT
If it is him he will shortly be a joint owner of the club possibly will take him to 35 - 40 %
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Post by The General on May 31, 2023 15:02:00 GMT
I think he is buying Tonys shares slowly
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Post by sparks on May 31, 2023 15:07:04 GMT
Converting loans into equity doesn’t impact the 24.6m. The owner of the loans knows they won’t get repaid so coverts. I’m a complete novice James, but of what benefit to the owners does converting loans to shares if they won’t get their real value back? |
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Post by The General on May 31, 2023 15:14:45 GMT
One owner say mittal pays half the debt and then takes some of the shares from the other owners in return
It saves the other owners paying of the debt with thier money
Exactly the same happened last may when amit bought shares
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Post by sparks on May 31, 2023 15:16:27 GMT
One owner say mittal pays half the debt and then takes some of the shares from the other owners in return It saves the other owners paying of the debt with thier money Exactly the same happened last may when amit bought shares You could be right General, but why only 13m? |
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Post by The General on May 31, 2023 15:42:53 GMT
Not saying im right sparks but it happened
Last year think either Mittal family or American
Have possibly bought more shares
Someones shares have definatly increased
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Post by Corbray on May 31, 2023 16:36:18 GMT
Converting loans into equity doesn’t impact the 24.6m. The owner of the loans knows they won’t get repaid so coverts. I’m a complete novice James, but of what benefit to the owners does converting loans to shares if they won’t get their real value back? it devalues the shares but can work out for the better in the long term. lets symplify it and say there's a million shares worth 1 quid each, but then loans get converted into another million shares thus taking the value to 50p. if for we get promoted then the value of those shares goes up, so those 2 million shares end up being worth a quid each again thus doubling the value and having more to sell |
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Post by The General on May 31, 2023 17:11:58 GMT
Stan will know hes got a handle on things
Or the Science Teacher Hubs maybe 🤣
What do they think has someone
Increased there shareholding ?
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Post by Stanley75 on May 31, 2023 17:20:16 GMT
Stan will know hes got a handle on things I'm no accountant Gens but this is what OpenAI GBT4 says: "Converting loans into equity, also known as debt-to-equity conversion or debt equity swap, can have several financial benefits for both the borrower (usually a company) and the lender (often a financial institution or investors). Here are some of the key benefits: 1. Debt Reduction: The most immediate benefit is a reduction in debt. When a loan is converted into equity, the company's liabilities decrease, which can improve the company's balance sheet and make it more attractive to investors. 2. Improved Cash Flow: Converting debt to equity can improve a company's cash flow by reducing the amount of money it has to spend on loan repayments. This can free up cash for other uses, such as investing in growth opportunities. 3. Reduced Financial Risk: High levels of debt can increase a company's financial risk and potentially lead to bankruptcy. By converting some of this debt to equity, the company can reduce its financial risk. 4. Long-term Investment: For the lender, converting a loan into equity means becoming a shareholder in the company. If the company performs well, the lender could potentially earn a higher return on their investment through dividends and capital appreciation. 5. Alignment of Interests: Debt-to-equity conversion can align the interests of the company and its lenders. As shareholders, the lenders may be more interested in the company's long-term success. 6. Tax Advantages: Depending on the jurisdiction, there may be tax advantages to carrying less debt. Interest payments on debt are usually tax-deductible, but high levels of debt can lead to financial distress, which can have negative tax implications. 7. Flexibility in Capital Structure: Converting debt to equity provides flexibility in the company's capital structure. It allows the company to adjust its debt and equity mix to optimize its cost of capital. However, it's important to note that while there are benefits, there are also potential downsides to debt-to-equity conversions. For instance, existing shareholders may face dilution of their ownership, and the company may have to share more of its profits in the form of dividends. Therefore, companies must carefully consider their specific circumstances and consult with financial advisors before proceeding with such conversions." |
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Post by The General on May 31, 2023 17:37:12 GMT
Interesting Stan
Maybe this reduces the FFP expenditure
Allowing us another 13 million for players etc
Would take FFP from 32 million doen to 19 million
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Post by James1979 on May 31, 2023 20:36:28 GMT
Converting loans into equity doesn’t impact the 24.6m. The owner of the loans knows they won’t get repaid so coverts. I’m a complete novice James, but of what benefit to the owners does converting loans to shares if they won’t get their real value back? So originally a shareholder with say 5% puts money in as a loan because company needs the money and other shareholders aren’t willing. So he puts it in so paid out first with interest but with a conversion right so he gets a greater % of company than he had previously. |
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Post by sparks on May 31, 2023 20:51:00 GMT
Would an investor with a higher % of shares be expected to pay a bigger slice of any possible losses?
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Post by James1979 on Jun 1, 2023 6:27:42 GMT
Would an investor with a higher % of shares be expected to pay a bigger slice of any possible losses? If a company, like ours, is losing money every month, the shareholders either put money in and retain control of their business or don’t and the company goes into administration because it can’t pay its bills. No shareholder is normally obligated to money in. |
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Post by sparks on Jun 1, 2023 9:13:25 GMT
Outside of football and perhaps a select few in the Premiership I would agree James,but even the American Reily must have come in with his eyes wide open at QPR, I saw an article recently stating every team in the MLS posts losses.
It’s my impression that those 13m shares could be a predicted best case scenario and a pre agreement amongst the owners based on FFP rules.
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Post by croydoncaptainjack on Jun 1, 2023 9:14:36 GMT
I need to get Simon Dorset's take on this. He is the go-to QPR FFP man  |
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Post by James1979 on Jun 1, 2023 9:52:13 GMT
I need to get Simon Dorset's take on this. He is the go-to QPR FFP man FFP clouds the issue. It confuses everyone. The comments are all about P&L, income and expenses. We should all just look at the cashflow. Keep it simple. |
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Post by James1979 on Jun 1, 2023 9:54:41 GMT
Outside of football and perhaps a select few in the Premiership I would agree James,but even the American Reily must have come in with his eyes wide open at QPR, I saw an article recently stating every team in the MLS posts losses. It’s my impression that those 13m shares could be a predicted best case scenario and a pre agreement amongst the owners based on FFP rules. Yes if there’s a shareholders agreement in relation to put money in to cover the losses then yes. However, without such an agreement there is no obligation. I find it surprising that these guys would sign up to any obligation though. Would you trust QPR forecasts? |
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Post by James1979 on Jun 1, 2023 9:58:58 GMT
Interesting Stan Maybe this reduces the FFP expenditure Allowing us another 13 million for players etc Would take FFP from 32 million doen to 19 million I don’t think converting the shareholder loan to shares (equity) will have have any positive or negative impact on FFP. Unless the interest on these shareholder loans are included in the FFP calculation? But this impact wouldn’t be anywhere near those numbers you mention above I’m afraid. |
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Post by croydoncaptainjack on Jun 1, 2023 10:32:49 GMT
I need to get Simon Dorset's take on this. He is the go-to QPR FFP man FFP clouds the issue. It confuses everyone. The comments are all about P&L, income and expenses. We should all just look at the cashflow. Keep it simple. I agree with you mate but that is the environment/constraint we are dealing with unfortunately. |
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Post by sparks on Jun 1, 2023 12:37:36 GMT
Outside of football and perhaps a select few in the Premiership I would agree James,but even the American Reily must have come in with his eyes wide open at QPR, I saw an article recently stating every team in the MLS posts losses. It’s my impression that those 13m shares could be a predicted best case scenario and a pre agreement amongst the owners based on FFP rules. Yes if there’s a shareholders agreement in relation to put money in to cover the losses then yes. However, without such an agreement there is no obligation. I find it surprising that these guys would sign up to any obligation though. Would you trust QPR forecasts? I think you make a fair point the more I think about it James, and no I wouldn’t have any trust. |
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Post by Bill on Jun 1, 2023 13:02:32 GMT
For me every comment is pure speculation.
Again communication between club and fans is shamefull.
Why do the club not come out and explain to fans in plain language what is going on.
It really annoys me that fans are asked to follow the club and spend their hard earned cash especially in the current climate.
I can only conclude they have something to hide.
Transparency would be nice but i doubt it will happen.
So it looks like a repeat of past seasons,lack of good recruitment,minimal expenditure and repeat, hoping we stay up.
The fans left in the dark,they/we deserve better.
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Post by 1qprdk on Jun 1, 2023 13:29:13 GMT
When I opened the document that link appeared DK, I’ve added another link but it’s needs opening to view. Sorry mate. Didn’t mean to be rude. Cheers for highlighting the issue and asking a relevant question. |
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Post by sparks on Jun 1, 2023 14:40:00 GMT
When I opened the document that link appeared DK, I’ve added another link but it’s needs opening to view. Sorry mate. Didn’t mean to be rude. Cheers for highlighting the issue and asking a relevant question. I didn’t take it that way, it’s all good DK😀 |
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Post by sparks on Jun 19, 2023 18:33:44 GMT
Ownership is confirmed as 51% Ruben Gnamamlingn 26% Fernandes 11% Reily Yes. Precise breakdown:  Looks like Kamarudin Meranum part of Tony Fernandes QPR Asia shareholder left last season. |
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