Poll - points required to stay up this season.

Trouble is we’ve got to hit him and the Laurel and Hardy show down our left wing can’t cross a road never mind a football.

After last nights result and performance this is the first time I’ve actually thought we will go down, I have been quietly optimistic until this point.

You get games in a season that define you and the outcome of it, in the prem when we drew 1-1 with Everton having been ahead I walked out and thought we’re down and we dropped; I had that same feeling last night.

Being in the bottom three is not a problem as there is plenty of time and points ahead and it’s being out the bottom three last game of the season that counts, I’ve said between now and the end of the season we could be out of it and back in it off and on and again that’s fine, however my concern is we seem to be unable to get out of it even if it’s just for a game.

We close the gap to 2 or 3 points we climb the mountain but when we actually have to climb out we fall back and end up 4 or 5 points adrift knowing another defeat when others then win could see that gap going to 7 points. Just getting out once would offer thembelief but all they are doing is telling themselves we can’t do this as they can’t clamber out they falter.

I don’t think it’s lack of effort we have too many mentally weak players and players who simply are not good enough.

Boils down to what we’ve all said, starting the season with that atrocious bunch up front was absolutely criminal.

Add boots to that Mix and we are on hiding to nothing and unfortunately are now seeing the effects of those terrible decisions.

Repeating what I said in the Stoke match thread, but that felt like a hammer blow to me. Huge 6 pointer, would have put things in our own hands and properly swung momentum since the new boys arrived. Instead we done the usual and shit our pants.

Taking a step back we probably deserve to drop. Our form over the last 18 months is borderline criminal, & this bottom 3 has been as it is I think since early Sept... we are clearly the 3 worst sides in the league (results wise).

Giving ourselves a proper mountain to climb. Again. FFS.

I agree Al and hope is more on our side now than expectation.

I thought we had turned a corner, but last night was a big big blow to our survival hopes but who knows with this crazy side

It’s like they have a mental block.

Stoke were never more vulnerable than they were last night. Their fans were absolutely seething after the game Saturday so last night was absolutely perfect for us to put them on the back foot early and get the crown on their backs.

As usual, we fluff our lines when we needed the team most.

Can’t disagree with a word of that mate.

If we stay up (which I’m at my lowest point of confidence) it’ll be a miracle and others results.

If not, the blame lays firmly with 95% of these players and boots.

The vast majority of players can't be faulted for effort. Ironically though, our most influential player, the one who could have contributed massively to helping dig out a few more wins, seemingly is at fault for that. Chris Willock. Even more ironic that another player we have appears to try too hard. So hard in fact that their brain turns to shite when it comes to making critical split second decisions. I give you Sinclair Armstrong.
Essentially though, we just haven't had enough quality throughout the squad to hold our own in matches. The odd performance/result here a there provides hope, but as we know, any team can turn over any other in this league. It's all about consistency and we are consistently inconsistent.

The players folding in matches they should really be stepping up to be counted in has gone on for quite a while now, with different players and different managers. The only common denominator in all of this is us, the fans. So maybe we just expect too much. Not in the sense that we expect our club to do better because that's not an unreasonable expectation given where we were a few years ago. More a case of expecting too much from the players on the pitch. Because ultimately, they just aren't good enough unfortunately. A few OAP's who give their all but understandably struggle to perform as well as they did in their hey day. A few who are not ready for this division and most likely never will be. A player in Armstrong who actually tries too hard imo. The one legged chair, excuse the pun, who like a few others can't even deliver a fucking corner kick. And donkey, who is an utter disgrace of a footballer at this level and shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a hooped shirt ever again, no matter what league we are in next season.

We could go on and on, so i will As well as our best player seemingly downing tools we have another player who we blew a large portion of our budget on deciding they can't do what they are paid a small fortune to do because their mate sadly became a victim of the lifestyle they chose to become involved in.

br]Boots obviously didn't help and in some ways, having such a shit collection of players has at least forced the club to give a bit more thought to who should manage the team. We seem to have got that bit right but possibly too late which sums it all up. We could still stay up. We seems to be stronger on paper than pre-transfer window so in theory should pick up more points in the next 14 games than we have done in the last 14. One win and a draw more than Millwall manage would do it and other teams might become involved in the mix. But it's a massive task now and we are running out of games.

What a fucking travesty it will be if, after finally landing what appears to be a half decent manager. we drop and he understandably fucks off.

More a question are these wankers brave enough as past 2 must win games have shown us not to be. Blackburn told us we were good enough so that makes it much more frustrating

West Brom in 5th isn't winnable IMO 

Boro just as tough. 

Even a half resurgent Birmingham will prove to be a tough ask the way things are going.

I genuinely feel after last night heads will be on the ground. 

In reality, every game is winnable but after last night, as mentioned above I think that was a hammer blow to confidence and the psychology of the side.

Marti has his work cut out lifting this lot now that we've slipped even further behind Huddersfield. 

Agree. Unfortunately, last night was a MASSIVE moment in how this season will play out. 

Absolutely love Marti, one of THE only lights in a very dark season but, Warnock was the man to get us out of the mess to then bring Marti in for pre season. 

It was so clear. 

For me the most depressing thing about these games is we sort of saunter out of the traps. You sensed on here and talking to other Rs fans we were all so pumped for this game. We as fans all got how crucial it was. You are away to the team in the second worst form in the league. You yourselves are - ironic to say it now - actually in really good form with two wins and two draws out of your last four games. You know (as Andy Sinton commented) their fan base is really restless. So surely you really go for it the first 20 minutes, put them under massive pressure. But other than that one burst from Paul Smith in the first couple of minutes and tbf two or three powerful runs from Armstrong, we just didn't push. We were so passive. So gradually they grew in confidence. I'm a big fan of Marti, but surely pre-match was the moment for a bit of Churchililan "we will fight them on the beaches, we will never surrender" stuff. But either that wasn't the message or the players just froze. Again. As they always seem to when they really need to step up. Its really hard to know from the outside whether its a lack of commitment and fight or whether they are just paralysed by lack of confidence. Either way it seems a problem deeper than football coaching or team selection (suspect tho' I thought that was). Do we employ a psychologist? Like England did under Southgate? Or is the mentality simply too weak to improve he mindset?