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Post by Stanley75 on Aug 22, 2019 7:45:55 GMT
Well of course we can always go by the 'they scored more so deserved to win' logic and it is 100% right in a factual, what get's you points way. We didn't get outplayed or disgraced. Agree sponge, we absolutely did not get outplayed or disgraced. Just saying they defended better than us and grabbed their chances when they came along. So on that basis it was a deserved victory for them, as much as it pains me to say that. All three of their goals were 100% avoidable though.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 7:48:47 GMT
Each to their own mate. Personally I put winning above everything else. Can pass it around as much you like, that ain't winning you the league (or even close to it) unless you do the basics right in either box! As I keep banging on; we have a team full of youngsters, freebies and loanees who have never played together before. We aren't going to win all our games but I would rather we lose in the style we are playing than win ugly. Give this team three years and we will be a very good football. If we revert to type and start booing our own players and demanding changes all the time we will NEVER progress. As an analogy; when you plant a tomato seed, for example, you don't expect to pick tomatoes off after a month or two. You water it, nurture it, feed it when necessary and then when all the preparation and growing has been done you reap the fruits of your labours. You don't pull it out by the roots after a couple of months because you can't pick the tomatoes do you? I am loving the way that we play a lot more than the results but I wouldn't change a bit of it. The defending is part of the style of play, Are you saying you would not change that?
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Post by esoxlucius on Aug 22, 2019 7:52:40 GMT
Nope, just keep drilling them in training. It is a brand new system with 90% new players in the squad. It isn't going to happen in the space of a few months. With all the movement up front I would like to see Wells up front instead of Hugill as he is much more mobile and drift across the front line a lot better. Hugill has to have players feeding him whereas Wells will go looking for the ball and swap positions to create opportunities.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 7:54:14 GMT
Nope, just keep drilling them in training. It is a brand new system with 90% new players in the squad. It isn't going to happen in the space of a few months. With all the movement up front I would like to see Wells up front instead of Hugill as he is much more mobile and drift across the front line a lot better. Hugill has to have players feeding him whereas Wells will go looking for the ball and swap positions to create opportunities. No drills can make Barbet not dive in or get caught the wrong side of his man.
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Post by Stanley75 on Aug 22, 2019 7:58:11 GMT
Give this team three years and we will be a very good football. In all reality, you think managers and players get that long in this day and age?
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Post by esoxlucius on Aug 22, 2019 8:00:02 GMT
That doesn't make sense. Coaching is all about improving players and helping to cut out errors. We knew he was slow when he arrived but I would rather we carry on as we are over using the Clint Hill solution to no pace which was to drop ten metres every time the opposition won the ball and isolate the midfield. Bringing the BFG isn't going to introduce any pace into the back line so it isn't like we have a ready made solution waiting in the wings is it?
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Post by esoxlucius on Aug 22, 2019 8:14:18 GMT
The corner never bounced in The box it was going out for a throw nearer the half way line then then the keepers line. It put us on the back foot, all out of position and indirectly started the build up to the goal To over hit a corner like that is unforgivable I will never forgive him. I have been burning effigies of him every hour, on the the hour since I got home last night. MW should make him walk around the pitch before Saturday's game and provide the crowd with rotten fruit and vegetables to throw at him to help him atone for being such a terrible footballer.
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Post by West Acton on Aug 22, 2019 8:35:28 GMT
Or could end experiment as soon as Wallace is back. Hopefully he is competent LB as sure to god manning is not. Just see the goals could argue he’s had part to play on all three. 1. Corner one 2. Let’s guy into the box for pen and 3. Ball watching for the third
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Post by Brian Wilson on Aug 22, 2019 8:40:44 GMT
Or could end experiment as soon as Wallace is back. Hopefully he is competent LB as sure to god manning is not. Just see the goals could argue he’s had part to play on all three. 1. Corner one 2. Let’s guy into the box for pen and 3. Ball watching for the third It's a bad corner but probably something worked on in training as they tried something different earlier with a corner to Hugill. Smith has plenty of time to pick a pass and not lose the ball. That goal is 90% Smiths fault IMO. As for the others....
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Post by Rangers77 on Aug 22, 2019 8:45:19 GMT
Or could end experiment as soon as Wallace is back. Hopefully he is competent LB as sure to god manning is not. Just see the goals could argue he’s had part to play on all three. 1. Corner one 2. Let’s guy into the box for pen and 3. Ball watching for the third It's a bad corner but probably something worked on in training as they tried something different earlier with a corner to Hugill. Smith has plenty of time to pick a pass and not lose the ball. That goal is 90% Smiths fault IMO. As for the others.... I agree, but Smith as the last man was tempted forward by the shit corner in the first place.
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Post by West Acton on Aug 22, 2019 8:46:46 GMT
Willo I refuse to believe we practice clearing the box and trying to put it out for s throw as corner plan 😋 joking aside the ball should not have been there for Smith to get caught it should have been in the box. The over hit freekick was the start of their goal. If it’s not over hit they don’t break.
It’s easy to iron out so hopefully not hardest thing to address as it’s basics. I think I’m old school always been in favour of putting a corner on pen spot and telling to CBs go and put your head on it
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Post by Tarbie on Aug 22, 2019 10:39:38 GMT
I don't see why it is one or the other. Basic defending is the same with whatever style of play you have. Barbet would still have dived in like that if the tactics were to pump it long. Cut the silly mistakes and we'll be okay but then that is easier said than done. A lot of the mistakes that are being made a direct result of either a.) holding too high a line and getting caught out (Barbet's penalty in the cup is a good example. Caught up field and tripped the man trying to chase him down), or b.) simply playing football in dangerous areas when a better bet would be to get rid. Personally I'd like to see us trying to play football in the right areas. That is all I'm saying!
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Post by Stanley75 on Aug 22, 2019 10:57:36 GMT
playing football in dangerous areas when a better bet would be to get rid. Trouble is this would be at the cost of Warbs' principles which is a possession based game, and which I can't see him sacrificing. I agree you have to play percentages when IF it's more risky to lose possession in a dangerous area, you're better off clearing your lines and risk conceding possession. Although tbf to Warbs I think he'd agree with that too. As said earlier, it is possible to adopt both approaches without sacrificing a footballing philosophy. McClaren discovered this was not the case last season, but that's because he lacked the personnel to execute it.
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Post by West Acton on Aug 22, 2019 11:46:58 GMT
Goal from throw in at Bristol what goals have we conceded from overplaying??? Only ask as the discussion seems to have evolved to are we playing wrong areas when to me this is not the problem. The problem is silly lazy errors/decisions
Don’t see reason to stop knocking it about as it’s not issue, yes clear lines when needed all in support of that but why step away from building from back when it’s not actually been issue
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Post by Shania on Aug 22, 2019 12:54:29 GMT
When the window opens in January we have to buy a quick and dominant CB. Till then Cameron and Hall would be my choice. Barbet is simply not good enough at all.imo..
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Post by esoxlucius on Aug 22, 2019 14:13:34 GMT
Give this team three years and we will be a very good football. In all reality, you think managers and players get that long in this day and age? I didn't respond to this as I wanted to have a think about it. QPR cannot keep going in the same direction of firing a manager every season because the results aren't happening the way that the fans want. For the first time in many years we have a manager and a coaching staff who have a firm plan about how they want to progress. They are hamstrung by having to bring in an almost new squad of players who barely knew each other before the start of the season, let alone assimilated and executed the new playing style; a squad assembled on a rock bottom budget yet still managing, for the most part to look a lot better than the sum of their parts. The biggest problem QPR face in the future is their own fans; they don't want cake tomorrow, they want Cordon Bleu now no matter how impossible an ask it is. I (justifiably) get pelters on here for standing up for what is happening on the pitch, albeit with one or two who also see things from my perspective, and I make no apologies for that stance. There is absolutely NO future in cobbling hotch potch teams together and getting a manager in because he is cheap or a former fans favourite. Fans will have to get with the program and support the club no matter where we end up next season or face the reality that the club is going the way of Bury, Bolton et al sooner rather than later. The clubs I just mentioned should be a wake up call to QPR fans that we can't carry on as club in the way we did up to a few years ago when Ferdinand & Hoos were brought in and since the appointment of Amit as Chairman an subtle air of normalcy has begun to pervade the stewardship of the club. DO NOT destroy this recovery by demanding that we revert to type because we just went on another six match losing run, look at how we played, how the club is trying to move forward on the cheap, how they are trying to ensure that in another 100 years that there is still a club called Queens Park Rangers F.C. playing in West London and not a facsimile AFC QPR because we didn't heed the warnings. No club has ever (to my knowledge) assembled a new team and got it firing on all cylinders the first season, even Man City, when the money rolled in. bought Robinho and thought that the Premiership was theirs for the asking. It took them several more years to get to where they wanted to be and as fans we have to respect that a team cannot be built in one season and there will be hurdles we fail at during that growth. Having a moan to get things off your chest etc. is fine but no more demanding that managers be sacked, players be dropped after a bad game or two etc. it's destructive to QPR's future to hold that mindset and it won't do your own personal health a lot of good. Look at the golden chest at the end of the journey rather than focusing on every sharp stone you step on along the journey.
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Post by esoxlucius on Aug 22, 2019 14:14:05 GMT
When the window opens in January we have to buy a quick and dominant CB. Till then Cameron and Hall would be my choice. Barbet is simply not good enough at all.imo.. Do you think we could sneak Maguire off Man Utd.?
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Post by Stanley75 on Aug 22, 2019 14:35:36 GMT
QPR cannot keep going in the same direction of firing a manager every season Agreed. I'd like the club to show some patience with Warburton and I think they will. Hopefully this shouldn't be too difficult to do as tactically, technically and as a man-manager, he (and his team) are arguably the best we've recruited since Warnock.
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Post by Tarbie on Aug 22, 2019 15:28:49 GMT
Just read your whole post there Esox. For starters, I admire your attitude and patience.
Nobody is having a paddy and suggesting the manager needs to go from what I've seen though. For me personally, I'm just letting off a bit of steam on the message boards.
Personally I think with a few tweaks we can be a very good side. We just need to make a few adjustments in terms of personnel in the attacking third. As well as an adjustment in mindset at the back!
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Post by shepherdsmush on Aug 22, 2019 16:07:33 GMT
I doubt we'll keep more than one clean sheet this side of Christmas.
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Post by BrightonR on Aug 22, 2019 16:11:01 GMT
Esox, great post. Full of common sense.
But I really can’t see too many over critical comments and certainly no calls for the managers head.
For me though, I don’t think it’s too much to ask that given a large enough cows arse, we could expect the banjo to make contact a bit more often.
And 24ft x 8ft is quite a sizeable arse.
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Post by Shania on Aug 22, 2019 16:46:46 GMT
When the window opens in January we have to buy a quick and dominant CB. Till then Cameron and Hall would be my choice. Barbet is simply not good enough at all.imo.. Do you think we could sneak Maguire off Man Utd.? It`s not very likely.
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Post by esoxlucius on Aug 22, 2019 19:26:53 GMT
Just read your whole post there Esox. For starters, I admire your attitude and patience. Nobody is having a paddy and suggesting the manager needs to go from what I've seen though. For me personally, I'm just letting off a bit of steam on the message boards. Personally I think with a few tweaks we can be a very good side. We just need to make a few adjustments in terms of personnel in the attacking third. As well as an adjustment in mindset at the back! Thanks Tarbs, appreciated. I understand the letting off steam aspect but it feeds into the negativity that accompanies each and every little set back. As I stated above, we will need at least two, if not three years to see the benefit of the sea change that has been undertaken by the club and I really hope the fans can keep the faith.
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Post by esoxlucius on Aug 22, 2019 19:34:48 GMT
Esox, great post. Full of common sense. But I really can’t see too many over critical comments and certainly no calls for the managers head. For me though, I don’t think it’s too much to ask that given a large enough cows arse, we could expect the banjo to make contact a bit more often. And 24ft x 8ft is quite a sizeable arse. Thank you, TBH there is a lot less criticism on here than some of the SM sites, which have a disproportionately high number of wankpuffins claiming to have all the answers to QPR worrying football problems. It won't be the knee jerk "Warburton out now" clarion calls that will be the problem if we go on a losing run; it will be the "I was a big supporter of MW when he arrived but we can't afford to keep him now if we want to avoid League One" type posts when we are 10 points clear of the relegation spots. These are invidious and sew the seeds of discontent because they seem reasonable but take no long term view of what the club is trying to do.
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Post by hal9thou on Aug 22, 2019 19:44:43 GMT
How do you coach defence for manning corner which led to the first? You learn to defend corners. Thats what i'm talking about. You drill em and drill em again, and your back line leader does the calls. You need a guv'nor back there. I'm not sure I'm seeing that. Conceding from a set piece upsets me as much if not more than conceding the corner. Who is our defence coach these days?
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Post by Ginger Ninja on Aug 22, 2019 20:01:52 GMT
Speaking of defence, I just watched the highlights and the 3rd goal is a disgrace. Criminal defending from all involved.
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Post by West Acton on Aug 22, 2019 20:11:37 GMT
Speaking of defence, I just watched the highlights and the 3rd goal is a disgrace. Criminal defending from all involved. what about the pen Ginge look what went on before the Barbet challenge. Geezer strolls past two players with no effort to stop him
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 20:12:26 GMT
Speaking of defence, I just watched the highlights and the 3rd goal is a disgrace. Criminal defending from all involved. That area of the field is a concern and needs to be addressed as we are far too easy to get at.
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Post by Shania on Aug 22, 2019 20:19:37 GMT
Manning`s positional play is still a worry. I really hope Wallace is close to fitness now.
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Post by Stanley75 on Aug 22, 2019 20:19:55 GMT
As I stated above, we will need at least two, if not three years to see the benefit of the sea change that has been undertaken by the club and I really hope the fans can keep the faith. Stability is obviously the ideal but you clearly have huge faith in Warburton if you're prepared to give him 2-3 years, when he's only been in charge for 5 competitive games. Furthermore, it's not just the fans that you're asking to keep faith but the boardroom too!
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