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Post by BrightonR on Apr 7, 2019 15:31:43 GMT
I guess it depends how one views what his role should be.
He could well be doing what you think he should, badly, whilst at the same time being very successful in relation to what he is being asked to do.
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awin
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Post by awin on Apr 7, 2019 15:40:25 GMT
As a DOF he’s been a failure.
A large part of the role is to offer continuity, something that has sorely lacked.
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Post by hubble on Apr 7, 2019 15:41:29 GMT
Well, simple question: have things improved in the over 4 years since Les became DOF? I think the answer is no. So what's he actually doing there, apart from taking a fat wage?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2019 16:02:09 GMT
If he is on the payroll as a Fernandes puppet then he is doing his job, If on the other hand he is being judged on footballing matters on the pitch then he is a big failure and his position needs looking at as I would rather have another player than him.
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Post by Shania on Apr 7, 2019 16:16:55 GMT
I`m not sure what he does that our scouting team can`t do?
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Post by Hitman34 on Apr 7, 2019 16:35:11 GMT
He is there for no other reason other than take the fans abuse. . Uncle bungles human shield.
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Post by Stanley75 on Apr 7, 2019 16:42:55 GMT
How many R's legends' legacies need ruining by these cowboy owners? Sir Les, Ollie, Birch. Enough already!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2019 16:49:41 GMT
100% agree Stan, This Fernandes is by far a worse owner than Flavio or Bernie could ever have been. The man should be warned off by every sporting body the world over as we have become Caterham mark 2.
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Post by Shania on Apr 7, 2019 16:55:01 GMT
How many R's legends' legacies need ruining by these cowboy owners? Sir Les, Ollie, Birch. Enough already! That`s also a way to look at it. Bu my problem is that I don`t dare to think what may happen the day Ruben, Amit and T.F. chose to sell up..
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2019 17:00:48 GMT
Shania. Fernandes and his cronies are steering us into no mans land and at some point we will be bang in trouble like we were before Flavio and Bernie took us over. The writing is and has been on the wall for 3 to 4 years at least.
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Post by Tarbie on Apr 7, 2019 17:20:39 GMT
He is there for no other reason other than take the fans abuse. . Uncle bungles human shield. Not sure about that mate. That's Amit's job these days, a deflection for Tony's online abusers. The way I see it, Les is required simply because Tony doesn't have a scooby what he's doing. After having his pants pulled down to the tune of a couple of hundred mil by 2 dodgy managers, he now needs someone who knows a bit more about the game to protect his interests.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2019 17:29:54 GMT
Not sure I believe that Tarbie. What interest in QPR FC does the man have and how much will his interest be worth? If after 4 years he cannot see we are going absolutely nowhere then he seriously is clueless. And if he feels Ferdinand is doing a good job as DOF then god help us!
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Post by West Acton on Apr 7, 2019 17:30:02 GMT
So question is, is he protecting his interests? I would argue he is
Views?
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Post by hal9thou on Apr 7, 2019 17:31:24 GMT
Fernandes is by far a worse owner than Flavio or Bernie could ever have been. The man should be warned off by every sporting body the world over as we have become Caterham mark 2. I remember making exactly this point during the Harry meltdown. The board plus Hoos and Les. Like I said, I'd take relegatiomn if it guaranteed we were rid of them. Sorry to say this about Les, but I wouldn't have him running the corner shop.
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Post by Shania on Apr 7, 2019 17:34:55 GMT
Shania. Fernandes and his cronies are steering us into no mans land and at some point we will be bang in trouble like we were before Flavio and Bernie took us over. The writing is and has been on the wall for 3 to 4 years at least. But what if a progressive billionaire comes along? Our club is situated in London after all.. That is the straw I`m clutching at...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2019 17:35:29 GMT
It depends on how you view it? If it is performance on the pitch then the answer is no, If it is transfer dealings then it is 50/50 as Freeman will be sold for money but we have bought Lynch, Bidwell, JET,to name a few. Our best sale was Sterling which was before his time. I would consider him to him to have failed but then I am a season ticket holder and fan.
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Post by Stanley75 on Apr 7, 2019 17:38:15 GMT
The way I see it, Les is required simply because Tony doesn't have a scooby what he's doing. After having his pants pulled down to the tune of a couple of hundred mil by 2 dodgy managers, he now needs someone who knows a bit more about the game to protect his interests. Questionable appointment in the first place though Tarbs and that’s being generous. If Les hadn’t have been a Rangers legend would TF have headhunted him? What prior experience did he have to for the role? Is he genuinely qualified for such a position, QPR affiliations aside? Demonstrated by the fact that how many times has LF admitted he’s been learning on the job? As Shania says, what does he actually do that a good scout could not?
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Post by BrightonR on Apr 7, 2019 17:44:35 GMT
As Shania says, what does he actually do that a good scout could not? Well, I think he can fly a helicopter !
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Post by Hitman34 on Apr 7, 2019 18:26:49 GMT
I`m not sure what he does that our scouting team can`t do? But we have the greatest scout in the universe. Why do we need a dof to identify players when we have the god of scouts, gary penrice
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2019 18:33:00 GMT
On a serious note do we need a dof when you consider the state the club is in?
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Post by Hitman34 on Apr 7, 2019 18:54:48 GMT
On a serious note do we need a dof when you consider the state the club is in? Or the size of the club. All a dof postion serves at a club of our stature is to limit managerial options. Any half decent manager would not want to answer to a dof at a club like ours.
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Post by Tarbie on Apr 8, 2019 9:07:22 GMT
I think in order to understand whether Les is doing a good job for the club, you need to really understand what the DoF role is, and the reasons behind why a club chooses to employ a DoF. I've mentioned it before on WATRB's, but the best example of a fully functioning DoF system is that of Ajax.
At Ajax, the club decide every season the way they want the first team to play, the formation, the style of play etc. From there, the DoF ensures that this is adhered to from the first team, all the way down the ranks to the juniors. This way if a first team player is injured, suspended or sold by the club in theory the player in the same role for for the U23's could slot straight into the first team and already know the role he needs to play. And likewise if an U23 player is no longer available, the player in the same position for the U21's could slot in, and so on. It also means the scouting team know what is required for each role in the starting 11 and can pipeline potential signings appropriately. It also should mean that the coaching & backroom staff all know the style of play and the ethos of the club as a whole, and everyone is working towards a common goal. The theory being that if there is a change in Manager/Head Coach, the new Manager is briefed on how they are trying to play and should slot straight in without the need to change the whole backroom staff. This means the Manager/Head Coach role is simply to coach the players and select the team and tactics on a match day.
It's clear that we are not implementing such a rigid DoF structure at QPR. It's also arguable as to whether a club our size really needs that kind of set-up.
When you look at the set-up at QPR and what Les has brought to the table, he has clearly implemented a better structure with regards to identifying and progressing youth players. It also clear he has brought some order to expenditure, with the help of Lee Hoos (and I think this was the primary reason for Les being hired). But beyond that, I don't think he's done much. I believe that identifying new signings for the 1st team remains primarily the job of the Manager, which really does make a bit of a mockery of the decision to have a DoF in the first place.
For me, I'd much rather we had a Chairman who understood the game, a CFO to control expenditure (Lee Hoos is perfect for this role), a strong Manager, and a decent scouting and youth set up. The latter we definitely have, but our scouting set-up is very poor. Everyone talks about how good Gary Penrice is, and I'm sure that is true. But what people on the whole don't realise is that Penrice isn't even a full time employee of the club. He operates as a freelancer. This is a huge oversight on our part, and the club will always be hamstrung in the transfer market without a better set-up for identifying new first team players.
In a nutshell, Les has done some things very well and steadied the ship at a time when it was desperately needed. It's no exaggeration to say we could have gone out of business if things had carried on the way they were under Hughes and Redknapp. But, he is not doing anything like enough to justify the DoF job title as I see it, and there are still huge issues behind the scenes at the club.
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Post by Shania on Apr 8, 2019 10:32:12 GMT
I should believe we have a number of scouts now, not just Gary Penrice. A very decent one, is like Penrice, a former top flight player who used to play for City and Norwich, I think. Can`t remember his name now, by the way. We have freelance scouts in Ireland also. Scandinavia? Not so sure. Which is a pity. And with regards to implementing and overseeing the way we want to play, I feel that Chris Ramsey could do that job instead of Sir Les Ferdinand.
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Post by Stanley75 on Apr 8, 2019 10:36:16 GMT
I should believe we have a number of scouts now, not just Gary Penrice. A very decent one, is like Penrice, a former top flight player who used to play for City and Norwich, I think. Can`t remember his name now, by the way. We have freelance scouts in Ireland also. Scandinavia? Not so sure. Which is a pity. And with regards to implementing and overseeing the way we want to play, I feel that Chris Ramsey could do that job instead of Sir Les Ferdinand. Ian Butterworth, who's actually our chief scout, Shania.
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Post by Tarbie on Apr 8, 2019 11:02:56 GMT
I should believe we have a number of scouts now, not just Gary Penrice. A very decent one, is like Penrice, a former top flight player who used to play for City and Norwich, I think. Can`t remember his name now, by the way. We have freelance scouts in Ireland also. Scandinavia? Not so sure. Which is a pity. And with regards to implementing and overseeing the way we want to play, I feel that Chris Ramsey could do that job instead of Sir Les Ferdinand. Ian Butterworth, who's actually our chief scout, Shania. And how many fans know that Stan? I bet if you went out there and asked our fanbase who our Chief Scout is the vast majority would say Penrice. You never hear Les talk about the work he's doing with Butterworth. Any time Scouting is mentioned its Prenrice's name that comes up. I've got to be honest, I really don't understand how our scouting actually works. But you only have to look at the summer transfer window at the start of this season to see that it isn't functioning properly!
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Post by Shania on Apr 8, 2019 12:40:33 GMT
Ian Butterworth, who's actually our chief scout, Shania. And how many fans know that Stan? I bet if you went out there and asked our fanbase who our Chief Scout is the vast majority would say Penrice. You never hear Les talk about the work he's doing with Butterworth. Any time Scouting is mentioned its Prenrice's name that comes up. I've got to be honest, I really don't understand how our scouting actually works. But you only have to look at the summer transfer window at the start of this season to see that it isn't functioning properly! Wasn`t it also mentioned somewhere that SM turned down the players the scouts had found according to remit(lower league prospects)? I`m not sure. Instead he brought Hemed in... and the rest is history..
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Post by Shania on Apr 8, 2019 12:42:55 GMT
I should believe we have a number of scouts now, not just Gary Penrice. A very decent one, is like Penrice, a former top flight player who used to play for City and Norwich, I think. Can`t remember his name now, by the way. We have freelance scouts in Ireland also. Scandinavia? Not so sure. Which is a pity. And with regards to implementing and overseeing the way we want to play, I feel that Chris Ramsey could do that job instead of Sir Les Ferdinand. Ian Butterworth, who's actually our chief scout, Shania. Thanks. He is the one, yes. But for some odd reason, I was thinking of Kevin Reeves. The Everton Chief Scout.
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Post by James1979 on Apr 8, 2019 13:02:55 GMT
Good thread this. You have to judge him by what DoF is supposed to do. The problem is people on both sides only look at parts. For example, those against him ignore signings like Freeman. On the other side, if manager turns out rubbish it was nothing to do with him. How likely is that?
Also - do need a director of football? How many managers have been put off by having one in place here?
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Post by Tarbie on Apr 8, 2019 13:57:34 GMT
Good thread this. You have to judge him by what DoF is supposed to do. The problem is people on both sides only look at parts. For example, those against him ignore signings like Freeman. On the other side, if manager turns out rubbish it was nothing to do with him. How likely is that? Also - do need a director of football? How many managers have been put off by having one in place here? But do any of us really know which players and/or Managers Les has actually been responsible for signing? Les never wanted Holloway, and Ollie came out last week and said that Les never wanted him sacked when the last managerial change happened. For the record, I'm almost certain that Ollie was the man behind the Freeman signing. I think that's the case for Scowen, Smith and BOS too. This is part of the bigger problem here. There are too many cooks at the club and where each persons role starts and finishes isn't really clear!
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Post by Tarbie on Apr 8, 2019 13:58:56 GMT
Ian Butterworth, who's actually our chief scout, Shania. Thanks. He is the one, yes. But for some odd reason, I was thinking of Kevin Reeves. The Everton Chief Scout. I haven't seen that Shania, but perhaps that is the case.
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