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Post by hal9thou on Mar 25, 2022 11:21:16 GMT
Obviously with hindsight we look a bit daft, but hindsight is 20/20. The writing was on the wall by mid jan. No hindsight needed. |
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Post by hal9thou on Mar 25, 2022 11:25:04 GMT
No coincidence that every team that brought someone in has pushed on largely at our expense. Some may not have scored but the overall impact of strengthening a team benefits all players. As for astute businessmen and what I don’t understand, I didn’t say anything about guaranteeing £160m just giving themselves more of a chance. Do you understand the difference between a chance and a guarantee? I see you haven’t jumped on my reasoning about bringing someone in - if it works the money doesn’t matter, if it doesn’t they go back anyway. I do understand chance of gain but do you understand chance of loss - ie another 40m fine (prob more for a second offence) for breaking financial fair play? Like I keep saying, staying in this division and avoiding FFP = debt. You have to speculate to some extent if you're running a business. One single cycle of promotion and relegation is worth spectacularly more than spending say £5m in the window and risking a sanction, since FFP has to be proportionate. I quoted their regs on here a while back when I realised the board just weren't interested .None of this would have made any sense if we hadn't been where we were by late Jan. But the fact is the opportunity was blown. |
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Post by sparks on Mar 25, 2022 11:59:00 GMT
Difficult to be certain what punishment our club would receive with our previous misdemeanours though Hal ?
Reading were deducted 6 points this season for going £18.8m over.
Easy for me to say I think it’s an acceptable risk we should have taken but looking how MW/DOF couldn’t make their mind up what was needed I’m not confident it would have produced Promotion.
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Post by hal9thou on Mar 25, 2022 12:08:40 GMT
Difficult to be certain what punishment our club would receive with our previous misdemeanours though Hal ? Reading were deducted 6 points this season for going £18.8m over. Easy for me to say I think it’s an acceptable risk we should have taken but looking how MW/DOF couldn’t make their mind up what was needed I’m not confident it would have produced Promotion. Yup that was the punt. Maybe they appointed MW as a safe-ish pair of hands to keep us in this division but no more.Promotion means the kind of speculation they wont consider. That would be in line with a buy out policy as their preferred strategy.Their problem is that all championship clubs who aren't in a parachute cycle are loosing money every month. |
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Post by Bill on Mar 25, 2022 12:56:39 GMT
I doubt we’ll ever get to the bottom of ‘January’ Hal. How a class striker like our DOF could ever agree we didn’t need a striker or how astute businessmen let the the chance of £160m slip and why we panicked last minute to bring in a pointless loan will remain mysteries. You talk about “astute businessmen” but what they are probably weighing up and you - it seems from this post - are not is that signing x striker does not guarantee 160m. They are not stupid. Of course they wd sign such a striker if it did. Don’t insult their intelligence by making out it is so simple. It guarantees no such thing. WBA paid way more for a striker in Jan than we cd have afforded. Has that guaranteed them 160m? Er, thought not Keiran Davis on loan would not cost that much. Not enough ambition Since when have there been any guarantees in football never. |
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Post by sparks on Mar 25, 2022 13:19:03 GMT
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Post by alanwycombe on Mar 25, 2022 13:55:30 GMT
You talk about “astute businessmen” but what they are probably weighing up and you - it seems from this post - are not is that signing x striker does not guarantee 160m. They are not stupid. Of course they wd sign such a striker if it did. Don’t insult their intelligence by making out it is so simple. It guarantees no such thing. WBA paid way more for a striker in Jan than we cd have afforded. Has that guaranteed them 160m? Er, thought not Keiran Davis on loan would not cost that much. Not enough ambition Since when have there been any guarantees in football never. If he’s really on 25k a week I can see why we didn’t get him. |
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Post by Shania on Mar 25, 2022 14:09:13 GMT
Not long ago, a new shareholder was "given" a place on the Board. Have any you an idea of what that could mean? He doesn`t have a large stake of shares, but he works in the football business.
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Mar 25, 2022 16:08:54 GMT
You talk about “astute businessmen” but what they are probably weighing up and you - it seems from this post - are not is that signing x striker does not guarantee 160m. They are not stupid. Of course they wd sign such a striker if it did. Don’t insult their intelligence by making out it is so simple. It guarantees no such thing. WBA paid way more for a striker in Jan than we cd have afforded. Has that guaranteed them 160m? Er, thought not Keiran Davis on loan would not cost that much. Not enough ambition Since when have there been any guarantees in football never. So if you don't "invest" your monthly mortgage payment or some other big sum in your Bet365 account are you showing a lack of ambition? |
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Post by alanwycombe on Mar 25, 2022 17:16:00 GMT
But we’re not talking about the average Joe keeping a roof over his head we’re talking billionaires who want(wanted?) to build a football club. The production line of saleable talent is still way off. I can’t see anyone buying us while we are still in LR so they have a problem I reckon.
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Post by West Acton on Mar 25, 2022 17:22:09 GMT
You talk about “astute businessmen” but what they are probably weighing up and you - it seems from this post - are not is that signing x striker does not guarantee 160m. They are not stupid. Of course they wd sign such a striker if it did. Don’t insult their intelligence by making out it is so simple. It guarantees no such thing. WBA paid way more for a striker in Jan than we cd have afforded. Has that guaranteed them 160m? Er, thought not Keiran Davis on loan would not cost that much. Not enough ambition Since when have there been any guarantees in football never. I see us linked with him summer Bill and I would have been interested but then again is intention not to improve when you bring someone in (failed in that with henderick granted) maybe club looked at him and thought he don’t improve us and based on stats since he’s been forest they are spot on as he’s 1 in 4, we have that already on the books (Austin and Dykes) so why invest in more of the same. A improvement in attack is someone who delivers 1 in 2 where is that player and how much does it cost?? If the right striker was there at right price I personally think we would have done it but I don’t think they were available. If Alan is correct that he’s 100k a month for 1 in 4 striker I’m glad we never went in |
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Post by alanwycombe on Mar 25, 2022 17:27:31 GMT
That came from a BBC report saying we were looking at him.
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Post by Bill on Mar 25, 2022 17:33:13 GMT
Keiran Davis on loan would not cost that much. Not enough ambition Since when have there been any guarantees in football never. So if you don't "invest" your monthly mortgage payment or some other big sum in your Bet365 account are you showing a lack of ambition? Dont be a donut,totally different |
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Post by alanwycombe on Mar 25, 2022 17:34:27 GMT
Keiran Davis on loan would not cost that much. Not enough ambition Since when have there been any guarantees in football never. I see us linked with him summer Bill and I would have been interested but then again is intention not to improve when you bring someone in (failed in that with henderick granted) maybe club looked at him and thought he don’t improve us and based on stats since he’s been forest they are spot on as he’s 1 in 4, we have that already on the books (Austin and Dykes) so why invest in more of the same. A improvement in attack is someone who delivers 1 in 2 where is that player and how much does it cost?? If the right striker was there at right price I personally think we would have done it but I don’t think they were available. If Alan is correct that he’s 100k a month for 1 in 4 striker I’m glad we never went in Thats where I start falling out with just looking at stats. If he brings something to the team that they haven’t got - in our case pace and movement - it isn’t just about him scoring. Others can benefit from having him in there. Agree we can’t ship out our youngsters only to bring in someone else’s on 25k a week. |
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Post by West Acton on Mar 25, 2022 17:34:28 GMT
Keiran Davis on loan would not cost that much. Not enough ambition Since when have there been any guarantees in football never. So if you don't "invest" your monthly mortgage payment or some other big sum in your Bet365 account are you showing a lack of ambition? good point all about risk. Plenty want club risk what they would not even contemplate personally. Wonder if the club put prices up to try invest more what the fallout would be?? Already meltdown on Twitter over having pay use blue and white bar I see many of the old faces from old board who said TF etc were shit and who over spent putting clubs existence at risk and who said they just want the club to be run well and within what it can afford now advocating risk taking. I guarantee if the club took risks and it went wrong they would be the exact same voices saying board have not learned a thing and TF out We want caviar but to pay for peanuts |
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Post by Bill on Mar 25, 2022 17:37:57 GMT
Keiran Davis on loan would not cost that much. Not enough ambition Since when have there been any guarantees in football never. I see us linked with him summer Bill and I would have been interested but then again is intention not to improve when you bring someone in (failed in that with henderick granted) maybe club looked at him and thought he don’t improve us and based on stats since he’s been forest they are spot on as he’s 1 in 4, we have that already on the books (Austin and Dykes) so why invest in more of the same. A improvement in attack is someone who delivers 1 in 2 where is that player and how much does it cost?? If the right striker was there at right price I personally think we would have done it but I don’t think they were available. If Alan is correct that he’s 100k a month for 1 in 4 striker I’m glad we never went in You know better more than just goals. Kept Van dyke and the other Pool centre back for most of game recently and had chances and good hold up play,better than Austin ,Gray and the invisible man together |
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Post by Bill on Mar 25, 2022 17:39:21 GMT
I see us linked with him summer Bill and I would have been interested but then again is intention not to improve when you bring someone in (failed in that with henderick granted) maybe club looked at him and thought he don’t improve us and based on stats since he’s been forest they are spot on as he’s 1 in 4, we have that already on the books (Austin and Dykes) so why invest in more of the same. A improvement in attack is someone who delivers 1 in 2 where is that player and how much does it cost?? If the right striker was there at right price I personally think we would have done it but I don’t think they were available. If Alan is correct that he’s 100k a month for 1 in 4 striker I’m glad we never went in Thats where I start falling out with just looking at stats. If he brings something to the team that they haven’t got - in our case pace and movement - it isn’t just about him scoring. Others can benefit from having him in there. Agree we can’t ship out our youngsters only to bring in someone else’s on 25k a week. Well we just shipped iut 4🤣 |
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Post by Bill on Mar 25, 2022 17:42:27 GMT
Keiran Davis on loan would not cost that much. Not enough ambition Since when have there been any guarantees in football never. If he’s really on 25k a week I can see why we didn’t get him. No way |
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Post by West Acton on Mar 25, 2022 17:43:39 GMT
I see us linked with him summer Bill and I would have been interested but then again is intention not to improve when you bring someone in (failed in that with henderick granted) maybe club looked at him and thought he don’t improve us and based on stats since he’s been forest they are spot on as he’s 1 in 4, we have that already on the books (Austin and Dykes) so why invest in more of the same. A improvement in attack is someone who delivers 1 in 2 where is that player and how much does it cost?? If the right striker was there at right price I personally think we would have done it but I don’t think they were available. If Alan is correct that he’s 100k a month for 1 in 4 striker I’m glad we never went in You know better more than just goals. Kept Van dyke and the other Pool centre back for most of game recently and had chances and good hold up play,better than Austin ,Gray and the invisible man together i accept that bill I don’t disagree. But rightly or wrongly strikers judged on goals (thats what plenty keeping saying on dykes when his all round game is well short)fair to say Davies current form no better then what we have |
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Post by Bill on Mar 25, 2022 17:47:21 GMT
No better than Dykes your having a laugh
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Post by West Acton on Mar 25, 2022 17:53:22 GMT
No better than Dykes your having a laugh bill I’m no Dykes fan you know that but putting the ball in the net he don’t appear to be an improvement. Looked lively versus us I do like look of him I’m just saying people were saying we needed a goal scorer get us over line. This guy appears score same rate we already have on books |
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Post by sparks on Mar 25, 2022 18:12:25 GMT
Davis is 24 with not much playing time to his name, watching him play he’s similar in style to Lukaku and looks a real handful.
Jack Grealish said “he’s unstoppable “
Crazy to compare Dykes to this kid, night and day talent wise.
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Post by hal9thou on Mar 25, 2022 18:22:41 GMT
So if you don't "invest" your monthly mortgage payment or some other big sum in your Bet365 account are you showing a lack of ambition? good point all about risk. Plenty want club risk what they would not even contemplate personally. Um... most people running a bet365 account aren't running it as a business. It's leisure. Running QPR on the other hand is a business. I think the model the board have adopted is problematic for reasons extensively discussed on here. Unless of course it's a limited loss holding operation until a buyer comes over the horizon. But between now and then we're going to be loosing money. Moral of the story: doing nothing can be riskier than speculation. |
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Post by Bill on Mar 25, 2022 18:34:28 GMT
No better than Dykes your having a laugh bill I’m no Dykes fan you know that but putting the ball in the net he don’t appear to be an improvement. Looked lively versus us I do like look of him I’m just saying people were saying we needed a goal scorer get us over line. This guy appears score same rate we already have on books Goalscorer maybe but someone who has energy,working,passion,power and all the adjectives you like. Austin at present,Gray and Dykes dont have any of those qualities. The ball goes forward and just comes back at us. Dykes invisible Austin past it Gray dont give a toss No pride no fight no bollocks |
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Post by Bill on Mar 25, 2022 18:40:38 GMT
good point all about risk. Plenty want club risk what they would not even contemplate personally. Um... most people running a bet365 account aren't running it as a business. It's leisure. Running QPR on the other hand is a business. I think the model the board have adopted is problematic for reasons extensively discussed on here. Unless of course it's a limited loss holding operation until a buyer comes over the horizon. But between now and then we're going to be loosing money. Moral of the story: doing nothing can be riskier than speculation. As Hal says i dont think he is far off in his view. Why would a club end of Jan do nothing,yet they have an excellent chance to gey the big financial prize that would put the club on a level footing,its not logical. So they are prepared to tread water until a buyer comes along. Makes sense to me 100% |
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Post by West Acton on Mar 25, 2022 19:04:48 GMT
bill I’m no Dykes fan you know that but putting the ball in the net he don’t appear to be an improvement. Looked lively versus us I do like look of him I’m just saying people were saying we needed a goal scorer get us over line. This guy appears score same rate we already have on books Goalscorer maybe but someone who has energy,working,passion,power and all the adjectives you like. Austin at present,Gray and Dykes dont have any of those qualities. The ball goes forward and just comes back at us. Dykes invisible Austin past it Gray dont give a toss No pride no fight no bollocks agree mate aside from Gray not giving toss. Just don’t think we play his strengths |
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Post by West Acton on Mar 25, 2022 19:05:54 GMT
good point all about risk. Plenty want club risk what they would not even contemplate personally. Um... most people running a bet365 account aren't running it as a business. It's leisure. Running QPR on the other hand is a business. I think the model the board have adopted is problematic for reasons extensively discussed on here. Unless of course it's a limited loss holding operation until a buyer comes over the horizon. But between now and then we're going to be loosing money. Moral of the story: doing nothing can be riskier than speculation. have you in the past criticised owners running/mismanagement of club |
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Post by Tarbie on Mar 25, 2022 23:52:22 GMT
Some daft talk on this thread. Can't get my head around the willingness of some for the club to keep on living beyond our means, despite all we've been through.
Not happy with the last few months, but not a chance do I wanna see us do anything to risk another brush with Admin and/or FFP.
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Post by Stanley75 on Mar 26, 2022 5:15:39 GMT
Some daft talk on this thread. Not sure about daft. I'd say more just a difference of opinion. Personally I'm finding the debate fascinating, with both sides making some well reasoned points. It's only where you see the resorting to ad hominem and strawmen do you find the debate being lost. |
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Post by alanwycombe on Mar 26, 2022 8:34:38 GMT
Some daft talk on this thread. Not sure about daft. I'd say more just a difference of opinion. Personally I'm finding the debate fascinating, with both sides making some well reasoned points. It's only where you see the resorting to ad hominem and strawmen do you find the debate being lost. Coincidence that my initials are AD?😂😂 |
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