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Post by Bill on Mar 26, 2022 9:58:08 GMT
Round and round we go Where we'll finish Nobody knows.
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Post by Stanley75 on Mar 26, 2022 10:00:40 GMT
Not sure about daft. I'd say more just a difference of opinion. Personally I'm finding the debate fascinating, with both sides making some well reasoned points. It's only where you see the resorting to ad hominem and strawmen do you find the debate being lost. Coincidence that my initials are AD?😂😂 And mine are MW 😅
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Post by alanwycombe on Mar 26, 2022 10:12:38 GMT
Round and round we go Where we'll finish Nobody knows. Top six, miracles happen😁
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Post by stainrodisalegend on Mar 26, 2022 11:26:32 GMT
So if you don't "invest" your monthly mortgage payment or some other big sum in your Bet365 account are you showing a lack of ambition? good point all about risk. Plenty want club risk what they would not even contemplate personally. Wonder if the club put prices up to try invest more what the fallout would be?? Already meltdown on Twitter over having pay use blue and white bar I see many of the old faces from old board who said TF etc were shit and who over spent putting clubs existence at risk and who said they just want the club to be run well and within what it can afford now advocating risk taking. I guarantee if the club took risks and it went wrong they would be the exact same voices saying board have not learned a thing and TF out We want caviar but to pay for peanuts Excellent post. Virtually every fan cheered the end of the Hughes/ Redknapp era, "we have our Rangers back" etc. The board could not have been clearer: they had got their fingers badly burned, it knocked the club back at least five miserable years, and we were now going to do everything sustainably. If anyone disagreed with the new strategy, I don't remember hearing them complaining at the time. We had all learned our lessons. Or so I thought. I am genuinely stunned that posters should now admit that spending in Jan might well have resulted in either a massive fine or a points deduction - but they STILL think the board should have done it anyway! And they say it is the board, not they, that are lacking a grasp of economics! Don't they also realise that it never ends with just one signing? Remember how we all were (me included - I hold my hand up) back in the day when we were signing player after player. It became like crack: "That's great we have signed X, now we just new a new right back/ left back" whatever. Because you upgrade in one area, suddenly the player next to him doesn't look quite good enough. So its a continuous process. And before you know it you have three squads worth of players, none of who you can shift because you have paid crazy wages that no one else will take on. Just look around the Championship, can't you see that all these clubs now in trouble also thought they were just one signing away from 160m in the Premier League? Does what is happening to Derby or Reading in no way give some fans pause for thought? Forest have probably adopted the strategy that some fans on here are advocating: we will see how that ends up. Bristol City spent and spent and will almost certainly be one of the next clubs to get punished. Naki Wells was the missing piece in the jigsaw apparently: £5m later on a 31-year-old with huge wages and they literally can't give him away. Certain fans say it is a business, so not like personal finances. But there is no other business sector where entrepreneurs respond to mounting debts by saying "I know, the solution is to add even more massive debt to the problem." Politically I've noticed a lot of posters on here seem fairly right of centre politically. Well the economic model they are pushing on the club was the Jeremy Corbyn model for running the country, probably even more extreme. Do they really think that approach works?
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Post by hal9thou on Mar 26, 2022 13:05:58 GMT
good point all about risk. Plenty want club risk what they would not even contemplate personally. Wonder if the club put prices up to try invest more what the fallout would be?? Already meltdown on Twitter over having pay use blue and white bar I see many of the old faces from old board who said TF etc were shit and who over spent putting clubs existence at risk and who said they just want the club to be run well and within what it can afford now advocating risk taking. I guarantee if the club took risks and it went wrong they would be the exact same voices saying board have not learned a thing and TF out We want caviar but to pay for peanuts I am genuinely stunned that posters should now admit that spending in Jan might well have resulted in either a massive fine or a points deduction - but they STILL think the board should have done it anyway! And they say it is the board, not they, that are lacking a grasp of economics! Thats because you haven't read the EFL's own FFP rules relating to proportionality of sanction, I posted them up so that people could check out the reality regarding expenditure / level of sanction. For the umpteenth time, no one is suggesting we hire Kia again. What I'm talking about is how you assay the risk. Also for the umpteenth time, doing nothing and avoiding all sanctions will see us bleeding money anyway. I think someone else posted up the accounts and accompanying report. Anyway all of this, my comments included, are irrelevant since it is very clear what the board's position is. Basically, minimise expenditure, no speculation, and pray for a buyer to come charging over the horizon.
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Post by Bill on Mar 26, 2022 14:49:19 GMT
good point all about risk. Plenty want club risk what they would not even contemplate personally. Wonder if the club put prices up to try invest more what the fallout would be?? Already meltdown on Twitter over having pay use blue and white bar I see many of the old faces from old board who said TF etc were shit and who over spent putting clubs existence at risk and who said they just want the club to be run well and within what it can afford now advocating risk taking. I guarantee if the club took risks and it went wrong they would be the exact same voices saying board have not learned a thing and TF out We want caviar but to pay for peanuts Excellent post. Virtually every fan cheered the end of the Hughes/ Redknapp era, "we have our Rangers back" etc. The board could not have been clearer: they had got their fingers badly burned, it knocked the club back at least five miserable years, and we were now going to do everything sustainably. If anyone disagreed with the new strategy, I don't remember hearing them complaining at the time. We had all learned our lessons. Or so I thought. I am genuinely stunned that posters should now admit that spending in Jan might well have resulted in either a massive fine or a points deduction - but they STILL think the board should have done it anyway! And they say it is the board, not they, that are lacking a grasp of economics! Don't they also realise that it never ends with just one signing? Remember how we all were (me included - I hold my hand up) back in the day when we were signing player after player. It became like crack: "That's great we have signed X, now we just new a new right back/ left back" whatever. Because you upgrade in one area, suddenly the player next to him doesn't look quite good enough. So its a continuous process. And before you know it you have three squads worth of players, none of who you can shift because you have paid crazy wages that no one else will take on. Just look around the Championship, can't you see that all these clubs now in trouble also thought they were just one signing away from 160m in the Premier League? Does what is happening to Derby or Reading in no way give some fans pause for thought? Forest have probably adopted the strategy that some fans on here are advocating: we will see how that ends up. Bristol City spent and spent and will almost certainly be one of the next clubs to get punished. Naki Wells was the missing piece in the jigsaw apparently: £5m later on a 31-year-old with huge wages and they literally can't give him away. Certain fans say it is a business, so not like personal finances. But there is no other business sector where entrepreneurs respond to mounting debts by saying "I know, the solution is to add even more massive debt to the problem." Politically I've noticed a lot of posters on here seem fairly right of centre politically. Well the economic model they are pushing on the club was the Jeremy Corbyn model for running the country, probably even more extreme. Do they really think that approach works? Here we go again must be on about the 30 th lap now its becoming tedious. I have no political views as they all a bunch of cunts
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Post by itsonlyagame on Mar 26, 2022 15:01:33 GMT
Excellent post. Virtually every fan cheered the end of the Hughes/ Redknapp era, "we have our Rangers back" etc. The board could not have been clearer: they had got their fingers badly burned, it knocked the club back at least five miserable years, and we were now going to do everything sustainably. If anyone disagreed with the new strategy, I don't remember hearing them complaining at the time. We had all learned our lessons. Or so I thought. I am genuinely stunned that posters should now admit that spending in Jan might well have resulted in either a massive fine or a points deduction - but they STILL think the board should have done it anyway! And they say it is the board, not they, that are lacking a grasp of economics! Don't they also realise that it never ends with just one signing? Remember how we all were (me included - I hold my hand up) back in the day when we were signing player after player. It became like crack: "That's great we have signed X, now we just new a new right back/ left back" whatever. Because you upgrade in one area, suddenly the player next to him doesn't look quite good enough. So its a continuous process. And before you know it you have three squads worth of players, none of who you can shift because you have paid crazy wages that no one else will take on. Just look around the Championship, can't you see that all these clubs now in trouble also thought they were just one signing away from 160m in the Premier League? Does what is happening to Derby or Reading in no way give some fans pause for thought? Forest have probably adopted the strategy that some fans on here are advocating: we will see how that ends up. Bristol City spent and spent and will almost certainly be one of the next clubs to get punished. Naki Wells was the missing piece in the jigsaw apparently: £5m later on a 31-year-old with huge wages and they literally can't give him away. Certain fans say it is a business, so not like personal finances. But there is no other business sector where entrepreneurs respond to mounting debts by saying "I know, the solution is to add even more massive debt to the problem." Politically I've noticed a lot of posters on here seem fairly right of centre politically. Well the economic model they are pushing on the club was the Jeremy Corbyn model for running the country, probably even more extreme. Do they really think that approach works? Here we go again must be on about the 30 th lap now its becoming tedious. I have no political views as they all a bunch of cunts That’s still a view Bill, a very accurate one to be honest.
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Post by Bill on Mar 26, 2022 15:03:30 GMT
Very true 🤣
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Post by Stanley75 on Mar 26, 2022 18:52:00 GMT
I am genuinely stunned that posters should now admit that spending in Jan might well have resulted in either a massive fine or a points deduction - but they STILL think the board should have done it anyway! And they say it is the board, not they, that are lacking a grasp of economics! Thats because you haven't read the EFL's own FFP rules relating to proportionality of sanction, I posted them up so that people could check out the reality regarding expenditure / level of sanction.For the umpteenth time, no one is suggesting we hire Kia again. What I'm talking about is how you assay the risk. Also for the umpteenth time, doing nothing and avoiding all sanctions will see us bleeding money anyway. I think someone else posted up the accounts and accompanying report. Anyway all of this, my comments included, are irrelevant since it is very clear what the board's position is. Basically, minimise expenditure, no speculation, and pray for a buyer to come charging over the horizon. You certainly did and here's the link as a reminder: rfantasyisland.boards.net/post/95644/thread
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Post by Stanley75 on Apr 3, 2022 8:51:22 GMT
I agree with all the posts re our recruitment. That has been good. And I agree that Les and the scouting team needs to take much of the credit for that.
Where I'm far less confident is the club's record on managerial recruitment under the current owners over the last 11 years. I'd give them about 2 out of 10 on that rating. So it's all very well sacking the manager but what faith do you have that the next one will be an improvement?
Once again, all roads lead back to this, I'm afraid. Who on the board has genuine football nous and experience.
If, by some miracle, they were able to get a decision like that correct, then we could genuinely go places because the club's infrastructure, player recruitment, academy, training ground (on the way) etc is arguably better than it's been in the club's history.
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Post by West Acton on Apr 3, 2022 8:53:31 GMT
Good post stan.
Careful what you wish for as I think there is rather big assumption a change = an improvement
Not seen any realistic names to replace either.
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Post by The General on Apr 3, 2022 9:13:34 GMT
I think most people would like MW to succeed on here
Hes a good guy and we need stability
However we also need some success as we used to
Be londons top club 20 yrs ago too
We have improved and hes done some good things
But our firm has made a dramatic nosedive
Why not because we didnt sign a striker in january
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Post by The General on Apr 3, 2022 9:18:04 GMT
Maybe see if things improve towards the end
Of the season he prob does deserve that tbh
He does not help himself
Why have we kept the same formation
Why not 442 for a bit get some draws
Start to stop the goals leaking
451 even do yourself a favour MW
Play the january way as much as possible
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Post by sparks on Apr 3, 2022 9:20:03 GMT
Good post stan. Careful what you wish for as I think there is rather big assumption a change = an improvement Not seen any realistic names to replace either. Would Gordon Jago have been a realistic target years ago ?
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Post by alanwycombe on Apr 3, 2022 9:32:11 GMT
Good post stan. Careful what you wish for as I think there is rather big assumption a change = an improvement Not seen any realistic names to replace either. Would Gordon Jago have been a realistic target years ago ? Best manager we ever had - Sexton took it on but Jago put it in place.
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Post by hal9thou on Apr 3, 2022 10:17:33 GMT
That wins you nothing, General. A large proportion of successful managers have had a big streak of hard man in there, they can play nice and put an arm around someone (like Warnock did with Adel), or they can get properly stuck in. Warburton always seems to me to be a bit one dimensional.
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Post by gtleighsr3 on Apr 3, 2022 11:31:01 GMT
General why u blaming our firm, they don’t effect the football, they just represent iiiiiiiiiiii😀
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Post by Stanley75 on Apr 3, 2022 15:18:19 GMT
Isn’t football a results driven idea? Or am I missing something It's an interesting idea. To be fair, other clubs rotate their managers more frequently than us and doing so has brought them greater success than us in several cases. Therefore concepts and arguments against, such as 'stability', 'continuity', 'loyalty' etc do not always stand up to close scrutiny. Why is it really such an unthinkable notion, per se, to change your manager after as dreadful a collapse as we have had? Again, whether a better alternative is lined up is really a separate argument, but clubs that operate successfully that way WOULD invariably have a better alternative and plan lined up and WOULD have done their due diligence and research. Therefore, once again, all road lead back to the board room, otherwise it's a perpetual locking the door after the horse has bolted cycle. So perhaps a more pertinent question is why don't the club have someone on the board with more footballing nous and experience? Get that bit right and we wouldn't be getting into the pickles every 2-4 seasons of having to change the coach and rebuild the the squad, because you would have addressed the root cause of the problem at the club. Moral of the storyAddress the root cause of the problem first as the chicken comes before the egg. In our case - Have the correctly qualified personnel at board level, in order to get the managerial recruitment correct to begin with.
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Post by Tarbie on Apr 3, 2022 15:25:52 GMT
As perverse as this may sound Stanley, we probably have exactly that type of person currently in the dug out pretending to be a Manager.
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Post by gtleighsr3 on Apr 3, 2022 15:29:40 GMT
What I can’t understand is our board are clearly all very successful businessmen. Now in business you have to get results it your business folds or taken over. Now I know it’s a different sort of business in sport but end of day better you do more money club can earn and less u have to put in.
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Post by sparks on Apr 3, 2022 15:37:25 GMT
I don’t understand what type of person you are suggesting we need Stan ?
Can you give an example at another club ?
Would a person given a position on the board not be required to make an investment ?
Is the remit of this type of position not the DOF domain ?
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Post by Hitman34 on Apr 3, 2022 15:47:18 GMT
I don’t want bread man sacked, I really don’t. But why did he not leave the team from December and January, alone. There was nothing need to tinker the hell out of it. There was no need to bring in a midfielder and upset the squad January. The squad that got us to within a point of 2nd place was good enough. Ball, Thomas, Amos and dozzel contributed to us getting to that position, and what thanks do they get? Dumped onto the bench and into the u23s to make way for Jeff farking hendrick. The results have been poor ever since with moral clearly wiped out because of that farking transfer window.
When things are working, leAve them alone you silly fool.
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Post by Stanley75 on Apr 3, 2022 15:47:40 GMT
I don’t understand what type of person you are suggesting we need Stan ? Can you give an example at another club ? Would a person given a position on the board not be required to make an investment ? Is the remit of this type of position not the DOF domain ? A David Dein type would be one example of the type of person. And yes, as strange as it sounds, Tarbie makes an interesting point about MW above, as another. IOW someone with good experience and knowledge of having feet in both camps.
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Post by alanwycombe on Apr 3, 2022 15:52:29 GMT
Warburton upstairs? Please God, no.
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Post by Stanley75 on Apr 3, 2022 15:55:08 GMT
Sparks. Re Les, not really. He is an employee. He's not on the board and/or a co-owner. Plus he's relatively inexperienced on the business side. By his own admission he's had to learn that side whilst on the job.
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Post by sparks on Apr 3, 2022 16:04:28 GMT
I don’t understand what type of person you are suggesting we need Stan ? Can you give an example at another club ? Would a person given a position on the board not be required to make an investment ? Is the remit of this type of position not the DOF domain ? A David Dein type would be one example of the type of person. And yes, as strange as it sounds, Tarbie makes a fair point about MW above, as another. IOW someone with good experience and knowledge of having feet in both camps. Ok I understand David Dein as an example but he was a co owner and risking his own money and reputation. Is the current position of DOF not the same but without the risk of losing money.
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Post by Stanley75 on Apr 3, 2022 16:15:15 GMT
Potentially as a role, Sparks. But as I posted above just before you, IMO the present incumbent doesn't fit what that role requires. And like I said last week: In the club's entire history we've appointed 3 foreign managers: Di Canio, Sousa and Hasselbaink. None of those were particularly well researched and only one of them (a compatriot one under the previous owners) we got lucky and did reasonably well under. I'd love us to recruit a talented foreign coach, like countless other clubs do to great success. But who can honestly see it happening going by our track record?
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Post by gtleighsr3 on Apr 3, 2022 16:29:16 GMT
You need a Barry fry type, done every bloody job going in a club. Worked on a budget.
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Post by Shania on Apr 3, 2022 16:56:32 GMT
Fwiw: Against Peterborough I think I saw a few glimpses of a new minority stake holder sitting together with Sir Les and Lee Hoos. I can`t remember his name, but he is involved in a football(soccer)club in Cincinatti. I hope he is a person who can advice the Board in football matters when needed.
Edit: His name is Richard Reilly and is involved in FC Cincinatti and Cincinatti Reds, but is not the person I saw on television against Posh.
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Post by sparks on Apr 3, 2022 16:59:09 GMT
If I want something important to me I do lots of research,maybe even taking months to come to a decision, but the important thing is I’m interested enough to do that. I’m sure it’s very easy for multi billionaires to take the easy way out out and pay somebody else to make those same decisions, if that’s the case with our owners why not throw big money at attracting a top manager like this chap Rubien Amorim £10m from Braga to Sporting Lisbon. theanalyst.com/eu/2022/01/ruben-amorim-sporting-transformation/
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