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Post by alanwycombe on Nov 24, 2019 12:35:00 GMT
I actually think what is lacking is little bit game management. Time to pass it And a time to launch it I'd settle for that but the idea is to NOT launch it. How often were you saying ffs hit Hugill at Fulham? We don't do it. |
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Post by West Acton on Nov 24, 2019 12:36:08 GMT
Honest answer Alan is no I don’t think we will as manning being asked not to pass the ball is not going to suddenly make him close his man down and defend better. The fact hes piss poor defending has nothing to do with qpr trying to pass the ball.
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Post by West Acton on Nov 24, 2019 12:40:31 GMT
I actually think what is lacking is little bit game management. Time to pass it And a time to launch it I'd settle for that but the idea is to NOT launch it. How often were you saying ffs hit Hugill at Fulham? We don't do it. but that’s not a change in style that’s game management!!! If we’re saying these players are not good enough or able to pass it amongst themselves at the back (that’s not my view) then there going to launch it as if you can’t pass 10yards they won’t be pinging it, Barbet aside, 50 yards. Return of the holloway days so exciting can’t wait |
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Post by alanwycombe on Nov 24, 2019 12:42:16 GMT
Not worried about Manning, Wallace looks decent enough so far.
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Post by alanwycombe on Nov 24, 2019 12:46:45 GMT
I'd settle for that but the idea is to NOT launch it. How often were you saying ffs hit Hugill at Fulham? We don't do it. but that’s not a change in style that’s game management!!! If we’re saying these players are not good enough or able to pass it amongst themselves at the back (that’s not my view) then there going to launch it as if you can’t pass 10yards they won’t be pinging it, Barbet aside, 50 yards. Return of the holloway days so exciting can’t wait Nothing like Holloway days, not sure where you're getting that from. I agreed with what you said about knowing when to launch it. We don't launch it when in trouble, we get caught out. |
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Post by Tarbie on Nov 24, 2019 12:50:55 GMT
I'd settle for that but the idea is to NOT launch it. How often were you saying ffs hit Hugill at Fulham? We don't do it. but that’s not a change in style that’s game management!!! If we’re saying these players are not good enough or able to pass it amongst themselves at the back (that’s not my view) then there going to launch it as if you can’t pass 10yards they won’t be pinging it, Barbet aside, 50 yards. Return of the holloway days so exciting can’t wait But there is middle ground Westy. It's not like there are only 2 options in footballing style, hoof ball or the sort of risky, play it out at all costs football we are playing at the moment. There are times where you have the time to pass it about, and there are times where you just need to get rid. Until the manager get's his head around the above, we are going to struggle. I also would be interested to see what is going on in training. Are our defenders being asked to focus so much on the passing side of the game that we are taking enough time to consider what's been going on defensively? Really, after every game they should have been playing the tapes back and establishing how these defensive howlers have come about. If that ain't happening then we have a problem. And Esox, 3-4 seasons is required to get this style of football right? Dunno what planet you've been on for the last 20 years, but no manager gets that much time to get it right. I'd hazard a guess that if this current run of form continues the knives will be out for Warbs in 3-4 months! |
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Post by esoxlucius on Nov 24, 2019 12:58:22 GMT
but that’s not a change in style that’s game management!!! If we’re saying these players are not good enough or able to pass it amongst themselves at the back (that’s not my view) then there going to launch it as if you can’t pass 10yards they won’t be pinging it, Barbet aside, 50 yards. Return of the holloway days so exciting can’t wait But there is middle ground Westy. It's not like there are only 2 options in footballing style, hoof ball or the sort of risky, play it out at all costs football we are playing at the moment. There are times where you have the time to pass it about, and there are times where you just need to get rid. Until the manager get's his head around the above, we are going to struggle. I also would be interested to see what is going on in training. Are our defenders being asked to focus so much on the passing side of the game that we are taking enough time to consider what's been going on defensively? Really, after every game they should have been playing the tapes back and establishing how these defensive howlers have come about. If that ain't happening then we have a problem. And Esox, 3-4 seasons is required to get this style of football right? Dunno what planet you've been on for the last 20 years, but no manager gets that much time to get it right. I'd hazard a guess that if this current run of form continues the knives will be out for Warbs in 3-4 months! Then we won't be any better off further down the line. Look where sacking managers regularly has got us so far. Ainsworth has had some proper bad seasons at Wycombe but the owners kept faith in him and once more it is paying off. QPR's biggest problem in recent years is the fans, if they don't get instant gratification they want to sack the manager. I really hope the board stand firm against the fans in this and pursue the path they have chosen. |
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Post by alanwycombe on Nov 24, 2019 12:58:23 GMT
Am not, and have not, called for a change of manager. He has improved us going forward, when we eventually get going forward, but that has been wasted by conceding regularly. Two tricky games coming up.
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Post by The General on Nov 24, 2019 12:58:33 GMT
I agree Tarbs middle ground directional kick to the sides of the pitch
Get it away from the penalty box to dangerous with our skill set
It's not just us Arsenal are also shit at it
Why are all teams adopting this style of play
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Post by The General on Nov 24, 2019 13:00:00 GMT
Just change the goalkeepers kicking it's easy everything else is good
Apart from hall and Leinster appalling
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Post by alanwycombe on Nov 24, 2019 13:03:35 GMT
Checkout Shearer's comments on Arsenal and substitute Rangers for Arse.
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Post by alanwycombe on Nov 24, 2019 13:05:15 GMT
I agree Tarbs middle ground directional kick to the sides of the pitch Get it away from the penalty box to dangerous with our skill set It's not just us Arsenal are also shit at it Why are all teams adopting this style of play Because its great to watch (And play I guess) when you have the players and it works. |
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Post by esoxlucius on Nov 24, 2019 13:06:29 GMT
Checkout Shearer's comments on Arsenal and substitute Rangers for Arse. I watched quite a bit of the City Chelsea game and both sides made exactly the same mistakes as QPR do. It is an inherent part of that style of play. We could do with a better conversion rate for our shots at goal/ on target to offset this. If teams with £1billion worth of players are making mistakes then why should we expect QPR players to be better than them? |
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Post by alanwycombe on Nov 24, 2019 13:10:04 GMT
Checkout Shearer's comments on Arsenal and substitute Rangers for Arse. I watched quite a bit of the City Chelsea game and both sides made exactly the same mistakes as QPR do. It is an inherent part of that style of play. We could do with a better conversion rate for our shots at goal/ on target to offset this. If teams with £1billion worth of players are making mistakes then why should we expect QPR players to be better than them? I don't, that's why I don't want to play it with our defenders. |
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Post by esoxlucius on Nov 24, 2019 13:23:18 GMT
I watched quite a bit of the City Chelsea game and both sides made exactly the same mistakes as QPR do. It is an inherent part of that style of play. We could do with a better conversion rate for our shots at goal/ on target to offset this. If teams with £1billion worth of players are making mistakes then why should we expect QPR players to be better than them? I don't, that's why I don't want to play it with our defenders. But the club DO want to play it as it is the style that attracts the most money for any players we we sell. |
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Post by alanwycombe on Nov 24, 2019 13:29:17 GMT
I don't, that's why I don't want to play it with our defenders. But the club DO want to play it as it is the style that attracts the most money for any players we we sell. Who is going to buy players who aren't any good at it? Eze is the only guy we've got worth anything. |
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Post by Tarbie on Nov 24, 2019 13:57:49 GMT
It's a totally flawed argument to say we are playing this style of football in order to showcase our players talent and maximise their resale price. The further down the table we are, the less the players will want to be here, reducing our bargaining power. Resale value of the players will be much higher if we are in or around the play-off scenario. If money comes in for Eze in January and we are floating around just above the relegation spots you can bet your mortgage he'll force a move!
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Post by alanwycombe on Nov 24, 2019 14:03:47 GMT
Agree. Anyway, losing the will to live now. Two clean sheets and 4/6 points this week and I'll happily look forward to reading the after match comments about how good our system is.
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Post by hal9thou on Nov 24, 2019 14:59:16 GMT
I think most are still supportive. There are a few that seem on the brink of calling for the manager's head, but they are very much in the minority. The frustration for me Esox (and I think a few others on here), is that I feel it would only really take a few tweaks to get the best out of this team. We are not talking about a complete change of mentality. Just a willingness to play a slightly less risky brand of football, and focus on playing our flowing football in the opposition half a bit more. I personally can't understand why a balance can't be found! As I said elsewhere; if passing out from the back isn't working then they will continue to pass out from the back until it does. For the next few seasons I am going to just turn up to support the team, cheer as loud and as long as I can and let any frustration go on the journey home. Rinse and repeat ad nauseum. The system is dysfunctional in a key area. So not doing anything to correct it is piss poor management. |
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Post by Tarbie on Nov 24, 2019 15:09:56 GMT
Agree Hal. I have a bit of an issue with anyone in any job that is prepared to see the same thing going wrong multiple times (and what are we now, 20 games in all competitions without a clean sheet), and refuses to make a change. It's a moronic approach to managing anything. You have to be prepared to adapt when something isn't going right.
Just reading back from some of the other comments on here. Esox, you say that you watched Man City vs Chelsea yesterday and they were making similar errors to us. If that's the case, and those 2 sides can't perfect this type of football with the riches at their disposal, how is it ever going to be successful on the shoestring budget that we operate? Defenders and goalies at this level are not meant to be able to ping the ball around!
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Post by acricketer on Nov 24, 2019 17:14:51 GMT
Playing devil's advocate, we will hold our own this season and stay up (I don't care by how much). MW wants the squad to play a system that produces entertaining attacking football that places a technical and mental demand on all players. He has built a team on a shoestring budget.
If he back tracks from his vision it could be seen as a cop out, "players not good enough"; "fans need more 0-0s"; "just stay up, never mind the quality (note to self: Call TP)".........
If I were in the squad and was asked to be uncomfortable playing a challenging system as well as up my game to cope I'd be much more engaged and motivated because I knew this was a very positive way to improve my own and the team's performance over time.
I like the fact that MW is sticking to his guns. Be interesting to see the breakdown of goals against from poor defending v. goals conceded through player error and how critical were these in the overall results.
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Post by hal9thou on Nov 24, 2019 17:18:25 GMT
. Esox, you say that you watched Man City vs Chelsea yesterday and they were making similar errors to us. I don't what medication he's on, I might have to order some, but meanwhile back in the real world City have kept 5 clean sheets and Chelsea 3. Against opposition considerably more skilled than anything we'll face |
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Post by West Acton on Nov 24, 2019 17:20:44 GMT
I like the fact that MW is sticking to his guns. Be interesting to see the breakdown of goals against from poor defending v. goals conceded through player error and how critical were these in the overall results.
exact point I’ve been trying to make
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Post by esoxlucius on Nov 24, 2019 17:28:09 GMT
Agree Hal. I have a bit of an issue with anyone in any job that is prepared to see the same thing going wrong multiple times (and what are we now, 20 games in all competitions without a clean sheet), and refuses to make a change. It's a moronic approach to managing anything. You have to be prepared to adapt when something isn't going right. Just reading back from some of the other comments on here. Esox, you say that you watched Man City vs Chelsea yesterday and they were making similar errors to us. If that's the case, and those 2 sides can't perfect this type of football with the riches at their disposal, how is it ever going to be successful on the shoestring budget that we operate? Defenders and goalies at this level are not meant to be able to ping the ball around! I have just watched the opening 45 of Sheff. Utd. vs Man Utd and even they are playing it out from the back a great deal more than we ever saw from them when they were in the Championship. They still lump it forward as before but nowhere near as much as they used to. The club need to keep on doing what they are doing even if some fans don't like it. You only get better by practice, not by chopping and changing to appease disgruntled fans. |
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Post by Shania on Nov 24, 2019 18:43:06 GMT
An introduction of a few new good players in the transfer window, and Kelly and Barbet hopefully coming back soon, might make us better suited to play the way MW wants.
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Post by Rangers77 on Nov 24, 2019 18:50:18 GMT
I like Mark. He seems a top bloke. Very happy with him as manager. But I want him to sort out these defensive frailties ASAP...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2019 20:13:49 GMT
He has introduced a very easy on the eye style of play but wish he would coach our defenders to just defend properly. Nothing I have seen says you cannot do both.
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Post by BrightonR on Nov 24, 2019 22:08:45 GMT
The club have clearly stated that are going to continue with playing it out from the back as it those type of players that command the best transfer fees. They aren't going to change horses in mid stream because the players aren't good enough yet. The whole club from the U10's onwards is geared up to play this way and it isn't going to change. For a team that many expected to get relegated we are doing much better than expected and we will be losing more games between now and the end of the season. MW isn't singling players out in public because it is detrimental to their confidence; the fans could do the same. Suport them no matter how the game is going and come back and do it again. In my opinion, players that are a consistent presence in a defence that concedes at least one goal every game, many of which are precisely because of the way we play, rather than what the opposition have created, are not likely to fetch much at all. Which of our defenders do you think may be high on the priorities list of any Championship club, let alone ones with money to spend? |
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Post by spongeparr on Nov 25, 2019 9:58:52 GMT
I think abandoning the style of play would be a mistake. We are in a bad spell one that every club will have. Once we get that clean sheet it stops becoming a thing. Some people mentioned playing a bit more like we did under Ollie; didn;t he get something like 7 clean sheets in 2 years? Plus played terrible football.
Is Dieng better with his feet or is he just being suggested because of lost faith in Lumley? Genuine question, I don't know enough about him.
I think we have been sussed out with the 352 formation. I think we are better with a flat back four as it makes it a lot easier to press higher, something that was making us so good at the start of the season.
Lumley/Kelly
Rangel/Kane Hall Barbet Manning
Ball
BOS Eze Chair
Wells Hugill
That's the sort of team I would go for. Have Chair cutting in from the left and Manning overlapping him. On the right we'll have BOS pace to make up for the lack of overlap and gives us natural width. Hugill and Wells to press from the top and maybe the confidence will come back.
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Post by shepherdsmush on Nov 25, 2019 10:09:37 GMT
This trend of shipping 2 goals a game is starting to get the better of us and (IMO) it won't be long before we are looking over our shoulders.
Can see a draw midweek and a loss on Saturday before one of the best teams in the division arrive at Loftus Road....tough times ahead.
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