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Post by Tarbie on Feb 5, 2020 14:18:36 GMT
Could go round in circles all day on this Esox. I have my opinion on this one and its unlikely to be changed.
I used to be a big advocate of Les and what he's done for the club. But I've learned things in recent seasons (particularly last season under Maclaren) that has made me realise that perhaps Les doesn't bring as much to the table as I've previously assumed.
I think it's also worth reiterating that the club is in a very different situation than when Les joined. He was brought in to do a job which has essentially now been done. He's also perhaps a luxury we can no longer afford.
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Post by jfrabbit on Feb 5, 2020 21:05:36 GMT
Good healthy debate lads which has given me food for thought.
Thread was started as I wanted these different views. As mentioned above I have no ill will towards LF or CR in the least.
I think Les’s role is important for certain things. We got well and truly rumped with that idiot Phil Beard dishing out stupid fucking contracts and the lack of football knowledge at the top was alarming so yes LF is good for that.
What I struggle with is the £600k salary for what else. Day to day work?
Hoos is the number cruncher isn’t he? What can Hoos and the board not sort out between themselves without the need for a DoF?
It’s not like we’re signing players every week. I think Les’s role should be more a consultancy style role as opposed to a very expensive (in our terms) full time role.
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Post by Bill on Feb 7, 2020 11:42:55 GMT
Would any posters on here do his job for say 50k,less than 10% of his alleged current salary.
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Post by esoxlucius on Feb 7, 2020 12:09:42 GMT
Would any posters on here do his job for say 50k,less than 10% of his alleged current salary. Would they also have to have the same professional qualifications that Ferdinand has?
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Post by Tarbie on Feb 7, 2020 15:41:39 GMT
Would any posters on here do his job for say 50k,less than 10% of his alleged current salary. Would they also have to have the same professional qualifications that Ferdinand has? And what qualifications would they be mate? He had zero experience as a DoF before he came to us. Of course, 30 odd years in professional football and a decade behind the scenes at Spurs would stand him in better stead than the layman. But I ain't having for a second that he was qualified to walk into a DoF role when he came to us.
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Post by Bill on Feb 7, 2020 17:39:33 GMT
Would any posters on here do his job for say 50k,less than 10% of his alleged current salary. Would they also have to have the same professional qualifications that Ferdinand has? Are you a politician answer a question with a question?
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Post by esoxlucius on Feb 7, 2020 19:06:39 GMT
Would they also have to have the same professional qualifications that Ferdinand has? And what qualifications would they be mate? He had zero experience as a DoF before he came to us. Of course, 30 odd years in professional football and a decade behind the scenes at Spurs would stand him in better stead than the layman. But I ain't having for a second that he was qualified to walk into a DoF role when he came to us. He qualified as a boardroom director on an accredited course designed to encourage black ex footballers to become more involved in football at the higher levels. As only two people actually graduated from the course I would say that he and Jason Roberts both put in the work to obtain those qualifications. He is a far from stupid man so I am not surprised that he felt he could successfully push himself in football and now has several years of tough experience under his belt. Its not like he has been handed a "job for the boys" position as his hand in dealing with the gradual decrease of both money and crowds is tangible as the more qualified, and experienced, Phillip Beard couldn't get to grips with it in the years he was with us. It's very popular to slag off Les but most people, myself included, don't understand what his job involves and just cast brickbats his way because the team aren't doing as well as they did when Gordon Jago & Dave Sexton were in charge. Despite their boyhood allegiances with other football teams I can assure you, after speaking to both of them, especially Andy Sinton, that they are now Rangers men through and through. You need not fret yourself that they are only at QPR to get stinking rich.
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Post by Tarbie on Feb 7, 2020 20:02:45 GMT
Fair enough, I wasn't aware of all of that. I still don't reckon there were many clubs other than us queuing up to give him an equivalent role though mate.
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Post by Stanley75 on Feb 7, 2020 20:15:45 GMT
Fair enough, I wasn't aware of all of that. I still don't reckon there were many clubs other than us queuing up to give him an equivalent role though mate. By his own admission he said he's had to "learn on the job", as it was his first DoF role which brings its own unique challenges. So in that sense he certainly was new to such a job, which taking courses can only take you so far with.
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Post by esoxlucius on Feb 7, 2020 20:34:28 GMT
Fair enough, I wasn't aware of all of that. I still don't reckon there were many clubs other than us queuing up to give him an equivalent role though mate. By his own admission he said he's had to "learn on the job", as it was his first DoF role which brings its own unique challenges. So in that sense he certainly was new to such a job, which taking courses can only take you so far with. I guess that is true of anyone's first job in a sector, you can only gain experience whilst actually doing the job. His years as an amateur and professional footballer will have only given him so much insight before actually getting hands on. Whilst researching the answer to Tarbs' question I discovered that in 2013 Chris Ramsey has a EUFA Pro coaching licence and was deemed ready to be a manager at an EPL club. His stint as our manager didn't do him any favours and I strongly believe that it is to QPR's credit that they kept him on in charge of the academies and coaching. When you consider what that charlatan Redknapp charged us for his services (£4.5m a season I believe) the quoted £300k on Ramsey seems good value.
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Post by Stanley75 on Feb 7, 2020 20:43:02 GMT
By his own admission he said he's had to "learn on the job", as it was his first DoF role which brings its own unique challenges. So in that sense he certainly was new to such a job, which taking courses can only take you so far with. I guess that is true of anyone's first job in a sector, you can only gain experience whilst actually doing the job. His years as an amateur and professional footballer will have only given him so much insight before actually getting hands on. Whilst researching the answer to Tarbs' question I discovered that in 2013 Chris Ramsey has a EUFA Pro coaching licence and was deemed ready to be a manager at an EPL club. His stint as our manager didn't do him any favours and I strongly believe that it is to QPR's credit that they kept him on in charge of the academies and coaching. When you consider what that charlatan Redknapp charged us for his services (£4.5m a season I believe) the quoted £300k on Ramsey seems good value. I think comparing his role to Beard (as you did earlier) is a bit unfair as Beard was a CEO like Hoos. Les' role is different. However I'll certainly agree that he had the obvious footballing experience which Beard was woefully unqualified for and which, as a result, got us in all kinds of trouble with horrific contracts being handed out. Again, a mistake which TF has held his hands up to. This, WRT the timeline, was part of the reasoning in him then appointing a DoF as well as a CEO.
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Post by esoxlucius on Feb 8, 2020 0:51:40 GMT
I guess that is true of anyone's first job in a sector, you can only gain experience whilst actually doing the job. His years as an amateur and professional footballer will have only given him so much insight before actually getting hands on. Whilst researching the answer to Tarbs' question I discovered that in 2013 Chris Ramsey has a EUFA Pro coaching licence and was deemed ready to be a manager at an EPL club. His stint as our manager didn't do him any favours and I strongly believe that it is to QPR's credit that they kept him on in charge of the academies and coaching. When you consider what that charlatan Redknapp charged us for his services (£4.5m a season I believe) the quoted £300k on Ramsey seems good value. I think comparing his role to Beard (as you did earlier) is a bit unfair as Beard was a CEO like Hoos. Les' role is different. However I'll certainly agree that he had the obvious footballing experience which Beard was woefully unqualified for and which, as a result, got us in all kinds of trouble with horrific contracts being handed out. Again, a mistake which TF has held his hands up to. This, WRT the timeline, was part of the reasoning in him then appointing a DoF as well as a CEO. That's fair comment. Ferdinand will be made aware of the finances for his budgets and will apportion them as he sees best and Lee Hoos will be juggling the bottom line constantly and asking Ruben for more money LOL. I have no idea if he does or he doesn't but with Mark Warburton's financial background, I wonder if he is also involved in any financial decisions?
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Post by Tarbie on Feb 8, 2020 5:26:47 GMT
The more we talk about this, the more its cements my view that there are too many cooks in the kitchen.
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Post by esoxlucius on Feb 8, 2020 14:29:49 GMT
The more we talk about this, the more its cements my view that there are too many cooks in the kitchen. Paradoxically; if Ferdinand & Hoos had been at the club when we were promoted with Adel at the helm, Warnock would most likely have kept his job the following season and there wouldn't have been anywhere near as many divisions in the playing staff. There is a definite air of unity at the club which wasn't there until recent seasons.
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Post by gtleighsr3 on Feb 8, 2020 14:34:22 GMT
That's because they all on roughly same gash wage,so no one rolling up in a super car wrapped in Louie V putting others beaks out.
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Post by Hitman34 on Feb 8, 2020 14:42:26 GMT
The more we talk about this, the more its cements my view that there are too many cooks in the kitchen. this with bells on. plenty of money floating about for dofs, ceos, technical directors and ammbasaders and tealadies but, when it comes to buying a half decent defender or trying to hang on to our top goals scorer, there is no money in the pot. with dof les latest comments that for the next two seasons, there will hardly be any money to invest in the playing squad, how to the season ticket holders feel? every year hoos rocks up and says its important that fans renew their season tickets as early as possible so as the manager has funds to invest early into the squad. well, dof les latest statement and the past two transer windows prove that hoos is also talking complete bollocks along with trying to mug off the supporters.
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Post by gtleighsr3 on Feb 8, 2020 14:50:28 GMT
Who drinks tea nowadays,sack the biatch
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Post by esoxlucius on Feb 8, 2020 15:00:27 GMT
The more we talk about this, the more its cements my view that there are too many cooks in the kitchen. this with bells on. plenty of money floating about for dofs, ceos, technical directors and ammbasaders and tealadies but, when it comes to buying a half decent defender or trying to hang on to our top goals scorer, there is no money in the pot. with dof les latest comments that for the next two seasons, there will hardly be any money to invest in the playing squad, how to the season ticket holders feel? every year hoos rocks up and says its important that fans renew their season tickets as early as possible so as the manager has funds to invest early into the squad. well, dof les latest statement and the past two transer windows prove that hoos is also talking complete bollocks along with trying to mug off the supporters. The fans total financial contribution barely pays the wages of the players we already have. Do you think they are sitting on a Dragons hoard and want to keep it all for themselves?
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Post by Tarbie on Feb 8, 2020 15:09:38 GMT
this with bells on. plenty of money floating about for dofs, ceos, technical directors and ammbasaders and tealadies but, when it comes to buying a half decent defender or trying to hang on to our top goals scorer, there is no money in the pot. with dof les latest comments that for the next two seasons, there will hardly be any money to invest in the playing squad, how to the season ticket holders feel? every year hoos rocks up and says its important that fans renew their season tickets as early as possible so as the manager has funds to invest early into the squad. well, dof les latest statement and the past two transer windows prove that hoos is also talking complete bollocks along with trying to mug off the supporters. The fans total financial contribution barely pays the wages of the players we already have. Do you think they are sitting on a Dragons hoard and want to keep it all for themselves? 600 grand a year is a pretty good salary for what is probably effectively a part time job mate!
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Post by gtleighsr3 on Feb 8, 2020 15:12:35 GMT
Tax on that be horrible to hide,if of course you don't wish to pay your full due to society.
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Post by esoxlucius on Feb 8, 2020 15:47:07 GMT
The fans total financial contribution barely pays the wages of the players we already have. Do you think they are sitting on a Dragons hoard and want to keep it all for themselves? 600 grand a year is a pretty good salary for what is probably effectively a part time job mate! You know nothing about what he does other than what you imagine. If the board thought he was as bad as you say they would have got shot a long time ago. Hoos would make sure of that.
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Post by Tarbie on Feb 8, 2020 15:59:11 GMT
600 grand a year is a pretty good salary for what is probably effectively a part time job mate! You know nothing about what he does other than what you imagine. If the board thought he was as bad as you say they would have got shot a long time ago. Hoos would make sure of that. If you say so mate. Let's agree to disagree. Hard to have a balanced conversation with you on some subjects.
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Post by esoxlucius on Feb 8, 2020 16:14:35 GMT
You know nothing about what he does other than what you imagine. If the board thought he was as bad as you say they would have got shot a long time ago. Hoos would make sure of that. If you say so mate. Let's agree to disagree. Hard to have a balanced conversation with you on some subjects. At least I put forward reasons better than "I think".
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2020 17:05:59 GMT
Does wages for non playing staff not count towards ffp?
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Post by esoxlucius on Feb 8, 2020 17:27:29 GMT
Does wages for non playing staff not count towards ffp? Yes they do, that is why Ruben is putting in money to keep us afloat. I saw somewhere that last years income was £7.4m(IIRC) from matchday revenue that would be 12.5k fans at an average of £25 for 25 matches. If we were to fill the ground up that would jump to £11.25m
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2020 19:23:08 GMT
Need to put a team out worthy of filling the ground. Goes arm in arm at Rangers and always will. You can love the club but still be pissed off with how we have been mis managed.
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Post by Bill on Feb 8, 2020 19:38:27 GMT
We are again a ship without a rudder.
A manager who is stubborn bordering on stupid,just plays the same every game,its becoming tiresome now.
A board that are gambling on staying up by their lack of activity in the last window.
Supporters who have shown great faith and loyalty to a number of idiots who have been employed in the last few years.What do they get in return bullshit bullshit bullshit and mugged off by this board of inept so called experts.
I am totally exasperated with this situation and unless things change on and off the pitch division one beckons and the consequences that go with it.
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Post by Bill on Feb 8, 2020 19:41:46 GMT
Does wages for non playing staff not count towards ffp? Yes they do, that is why Ruben is putting in money to keep us afloat. I saw somewhere that last years income was £7.4m(IIRC) from matchday revenue that would be 12.5k fans at an average of £25 for 25 matches. If we were to fill the ground up that would jump to £11.25m Well the way its going we could fold and he will get his money back from sale of the ground,sorry to be so blatant but this has to be asked.
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Post by esoxlucius on Feb 8, 2020 20:25:01 GMT
Yes they do, that is why Ruben is putting in money to keep us afloat. I saw somewhere that last years income was £7.4m(IIRC) from matchday revenue that would be 12.5k fans at an average of £25 for 25 matches. If we were to fill the ground up that would jump to £11.25m Well the way its going we could fold and he will get his money back from sale of the ground,sorry to be so blatant but this has to be asked. You could well be right. I believe that the ground has some sort of restriction or condition of what the land can be used for, i.e. for sporting purposes only but I can't find any proof at the moment. I know that when QPR first bought the ground, they also bought the houses in Loftus Road and Ellerslie Road but had to sell them due to financial hardships (sound familiar?) There are a number of groups involved with QPR but the main one is QPR Holdings with the main shareholders being Ruben Gnanalingam's Total Soccer Growth Sdn Bhd., the Tune Group Group and Seadream which is the Mittals. It would take a better man than me to know the team stand with regard to who or what can be sold but I do know that part of the FFP settlement directed the board to capitalise the debt so that QPR wouldn't be affected and since then QPR have been trying to comply with the P&S aspect of FFP so we should never be in debt over £39m in any one season, and then nothing for two more seasons to remain compliant. From all I have been able to fd out we should end this season around £37m in debt but a large chunk of that possibly £19m from what I can find out, will drop of the three year rolling period. I know this doesn't answer your question directly, but I hope it gives you an idea of what is involved.
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Post by Bill on Feb 8, 2020 21:11:48 GMT
Thanks esox im just losing my patience which i know i have advocated in another post but its becoming very tedious same old same old. This is why i pose the question about folding and TF and his band can get their money back.
In other words all this continuous bullshit is it a smokescreen for a self destruction job,cant help but think about this,sorry to anyone who is upset or angry about this.
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